2nd Pool build

[Cbarber623]

I'm in the homebuilding industry and have just begun foundation on my next home. The house I'm in currently is my first time owning a pool. I didn't find out about this site until after building my first pool, but have really enjoyed learning about pool chemistry and I am exited to change some things that I do not like about my current pool.

Main things I do not like:
1. Pump is loud. I believe I can easily solve this issue with a variable speed pump?
2. Twice now I have gone on vacation and come back to my breaker being tripped while gone and a green pool. What options are there to either 1. get an alert when power is out or 2.have back up power for pool pump.
3. Absense of a spa. We really want a hot tub. I'd like one attached, but not sure how hard that would be to upkeep and extra expense on equipment. Is it better to buy a separate hot tub? I could certainly design that in at this point if I wanted
4. Absense of a heater. I'm not trying to warm the pool during coldest months, but I think we could get a good extention to swim season in South Carolina. I also have natural gas at my new location.

I'm meeting with the company that did my first pool next week. I'm also going to meet someone I know as a contractor that is taking over his Dad's pool building business. I have a feeling he won't be close in price to big pool builder, but I'd like to hear him out. Some items I'm curious about:

Should I do a cartridge filter versus sand? I leave my robot in and have it set to run every other day during the week. I like a spotless pool. Seems my robot vacuums up a lot of sand. Is that more from the surrounding concrete or does the sand filter cause some of this?
Continue with SWCG? It does make managing chlorine rather easy and its all I currently know, but it doesn't seem like Chlorine would not be that hard to regulate without one. I think in the long run Chlorine is cheaper? I guess depends on how many years you get from the SWCG.

What else should I be making sure I do? If you could start brand new, what are your must haves?

Thanks in advance for your advice. I have attached my plot plan. I'll also attach the recommendations from the pool builder.

 

[kimkats]

We really want a hot tub.

I would have a "real" hot tub over a spa attached to the pool. SO many reasons but the main one being comfort and jets in all of the right places in the real hot tub. You have it by the pool so people can hop into the pool to cool off as needed.

Should I do a cartridge filter versus sand?

I LOVED my sand filter over the cartridge because of ease of clean. Turn it to backwash and let it do the work instead of having to open it up, take the cartridge out, clean the cartridge, put the cartridge back in. Which ever one you get go BIG! The bigger it is the less you have to clean it.

it doesn't seem like Chlorine would not be that hard to regulate without one.

Well with liquid chlorine you would have to pick up the chlorine, store it in a cool, dark place THEN add it each and every day. The SWG does all of that for you. The only thing you would have to pick up would be the salt to add to the water.

 

[Cbarber623]

Thanks for that feedback.

 

[sub150]

1. VSP are much quieter. I just installed a 3HP and at a low setting I can't hear it until I'm about 5 feet away.
2. Wouldn't worry about this until it happens at new place. The cheapest solution would probably be a video monitoring camera focused on your pump to see if it's on/moving water.
3. n/a
4. Depending on your electric costs, heat pump may be more efficient than nat gas. Would need to the do the math on initial investment + usage cost.

 

[ngsm13]

Cartridge filters do not need to be cleaned as often as sand. Also sand is the SLOWEST at clearing a pool. My preference would be a large cartridge.

Electric Heat pump will help with 'shoulder season', when when pair with a solar cover. I think I get an extra 6-weeks a year to my season in Ohio. If you want to extend the season, Natural Gas is a must... It also has the ability for a much higher Delta T. My heat pump is efficient, but takes quite some time to change the temperature of a 20k gallon pool. It works for me, because I have Solar Panels for electricity and I like the 'free' energy.

Highly recommend variable speed pump. Dedicated returns be section (deep/shallow), and at least 2 skimmers. If you want bubblers or water features, consider a booster pump.

While you're at it, stick with a SWCG. You could also spec, acid metering/dosing. This will heavily automate your maintenance, and you will only need to follow the principle of "trust but verify" by taking readings with your TF-100 weekly.

 

[TKpoolOH]

You're gonna have some fun! The pool house is massive!

I would focus first on the PB you want, speaking from personal experience. All these things can be changed before the build starts and in many cases even after the build is completed if you want. It's very hard to change PB's if you don't get it right. You're a homebuilder yourself, so you know what you're looking for in a PB's qualities and trustworthiness. If they don't have an endless supply of willing references you can talk to and see their pools, then they likely don't do quality work and/or operate their business appropriately. A vinyl build should not take more than 2 weeks to do, regardless of the size. Any time frame longer than that and the PB is likely stretching themselves too thin trying to do too many things at once.

Here's some more IMO's for your questions:

~ IMO, I'd go with sand. I love the fact all you do is flip the lever on your multiport, backwash, rinse and you're done. Takes all of 3 minutes every time. I don't care how many times you do it, that is immensely easier to me than cleaning a cartridge or DE filter even once. Yes, sand does take longer to clear. You couldn't see more than two feet in my pool last week, this week, I can see the liner details in 8'6" deep end. However, if you follow TFP you're not really worried about that because the odds of it not being clear are slim. If you're getting sand in your robot, it could be from just sandy soil in SC blowing around or maybe not rinsing long enough after backwash?
~ IMO, VSP all the way; not sure any IMO would say otherwise.
~ IMO, if the breaker trips, not sure how backup power would help you. I like @sub150 idea on camera monitoring. I'm sure there's a home automation system feature you can get that will monitor your breakers, power usage and such, but how much $$ you want to spend?
~ IMO, SWG all the way. I just spent almost 2 months pouring chlorine every day. For the last week on the SWG, I run my test and I'm done (push a button if I need more or less chlorine).
~ IMO, stand alone hot tub.
~ IMO, heat pump unless you want spot heating. Then capitalize on you natural gas.

Other things to consider: make sure you're getting the right plumbing (dedicate lines per return/skimmer, rigid sch 40 astm 1785 and 2466, proper valves, sweep 90s, etc.), what fun stuff do you want in the pool (playing volleyball, basketball, diving, slide) to ensure your depth and size are good, what kind of steps do you want, if you have a deep end do you want benches, keep all your equipment one brand or compatible if you're considering automation, and don't sign a contract/deposit without key details on start/completion date and repercussions.

 

[BDY]

If you buy a pump etc with automation or WiFi then you’d be able to tell if breaker tripped or something else wrong - eg either error message or no communication - but that wouldn’t help you for power outage. For power outage you would need a standby generator sized for house and pump.

+1 on cartridge filter and SWG w/VSP. The energy and chlorine savings alone pay for themselves and you can go away on vacation and not worry. And I’m phoenix you’ll be needing chlorine year round

Other thoughts:

Multiple skimmers in parallel, not in series (not sure how big your pool, but say two)

Main drain not tied to skimmers

a manual vacuum suction line even if going with robot, even more so if you plan on vacuuming

 

[Cbarber623]

1. VSP are much quieter. I just installed a 3HP and at a low setting I can't hear it until I'm about 5 feet away.
2. Wouldn't worry about this until it happens at new place. The cheapest solution would probably be a video monitoring camera focused on your pump to see if it's on/moving water.
3. n/a
4. Depending on your electric costs, heat pump may be more efficient than nat gas. Would need to the do the math on initial investment + usage cost.

Good idea on getting some monitoring on the pump

 

[Cbarber623]

Cartridge filters do not need to be cleaned as often as sand. Also sand is the SLOWEST at clearing a pool. My preference would be a large cartridge.

Electric Heat pump will help with 'shoulder season', when when pair with a solar cover. I think I get an extra 6-weeks a year to my season in Ohio. If you want to extend the season, Natural Gas is a must... It also has the ability for a much higher Delta T. My heat pump is efficient, but takes quite some time to change the temperature of a 20k gallon pool. It works for me, because I have Solar Panels for electricity and I like the 'free' energy.

Highly recommend variable speed pump. Dedicated returns be section (deep/shallow), and at least 2 skimmers. If you want bubblers or water features, consider a booster pump.

While you're at it, stick with a SWCG. You could also spec, acid metering/dosing. This will heavily automate your maintenance, and you will only need to follow the principle of "trust but verify" by taking readings with your TF-100 weekly.

Thanks for responding. I think the VSP will be a must have this go around. Never heard of acid metering/dosing - will have to look into that.

 

[Cbarber623]

You're gonna have some fun! The pool house is massive!

I would focus first on the PB you want, speaking from personal experience. All these things can be changed before the build starts and in many cases even after the build is completed if you want. It's very hard to change PB's if you don't get it right. You're a homebuilder yourself, so you know what you're looking for in a PB's qualities and trustworthiness. If they don't have an endless supply of willing references you can talk to and see their pools, then they likely don't do quality work and/or operate their business appropriately. A vinyl build should not take more than 2 weeks to do, regardless of the size. Any time frame longer than that and the PB is likely stretching themselves too thin trying to do too many things at once.

Here's some more IMO's for your questions:

~ IMO, I'd go with sand. I love the fact all you do is flip the lever on your multiport, backwash, rinse and you're done. Takes all of 3 minutes every time. I don't care how many times you do it, that is immensely easier to me than cleaning a cartridge or DE filter even once. Yes, sand does take longer to clear. You couldn't see more than two feet in my pool last week, this week, I can see the liner details in 8'6" deep end. However, if you follow TFP you're not really worried about that because the odds of it not being clear are slim. If you're getting sand in your robot, it could be from just sandy soil in SC blowing around or maybe not rinsing long enough after backwash?
~ IMO, VSP all the way; not sure any IMO would say otherwise.
~ IMO, if the breaker trips, not sure how backup power would help you. I like @sub150 idea on camera monitoring. I'm sure there's a home automation system feature you can get that will monitor your breakers, power usage and such, but how much $$ you want to spend?
~ IMO, SWG all the way. I just spent almost 2 months pouring chlorine every day. For the last week on the SWG, I run my test and I'm done (push a button if I need more or less chlorine).
~ IMO, stand alone hot tub.
~ IMO, heat pump unless you want spot heating. Then capitalize on you natural gas.

Other things to consider: make sure you're getting the right plumbing (dedicate lines per return/skimmer, rigid sch 40 astm 1785 and 2466, proper valves, sweep 90s, etc.), what fun stuff do you want in the pool (playing volleyball, basketball, diving, slide) to ensure your depth and size are good, what kind of steps do you want, if you have a deep end do you want benches, keep all your equipment one brand or compatible if you're considering automation, and don't sign a contract/deposit without key details on start/completion date and repercussions.

Thanks for your advice and recommendations. I feel good about either of the two pool builders I am quoting, will likely come down to price. If small guy can get close, I'll go with him.

 

[BDY]

Thanks for responding. I think the VSP will be a must have this go around. Never heard of acid metering/dosing - will have to look into that

Stenner Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair Intelliph - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Jandy and Hayward have versions too

As i understand it, The acid systems need maintenance and monitoring so it’s not exactly set and forget but it does remove the daily grind

 

[Cbarber623]

If you buy a pump etc with automation or WiFi then you’d be able to tell if breaker tripped or something else wrong - eg either error message or no communication - but that wouldn’t help you for power outage. For power outage you would need a standby generator sized for house and pump.

+1 on cartridge filter and SWG w/VSP. The energy and chlorine savings alone pay for themselves and you can go away on vacation and not worry. And I’m phoenix you’ll be needing chlorine year round

Other thoughts:

Multiple skimmers in parallel, not in series (not sure how big your pool, but say two)

Main drain not tied to skimmers

a manual vacuum suction line even if going with robot, even more so if you plan on vacuuming

Thanks for responding. Your other thoughts have peaked my interest. Manual vacuum suction line sounds very appealing. I actually enjoy vacuuming sometimes.

 

[flynwill]

Since your design is a rectangle I would suggest that you consider adding an auto-cover. Will keep the pool warmer and cleaner, as well as providing a significant safety benefit.

I've had both stand-alone fiberglass hot tubs as well as our current gunite hot tub attached to the pool, and while I'll agree the stand-alone hot-tub is a bit more comfortable IMHO the difference isn't worth the additional work to maintain two separate bodies of water. Our current pool is a simple rectangular design with the spa built into one corner and covered by the autocover along with the pool.

 

[Cbarber623]

Since your design is a rectangle I would suggest that you consider adding an auto-cover. Will keep the pool warmer and cleaner, as well as providing a significant safety benefit.

I've had both stand-alone fiberglass hot tubs as well as our current gunite hot tub attached to the pool, and while I'll agree the stand-alone hot-tub is a bit more comfortable IMHO the difference isn't worth the additional work to maintain two separate bodies of water. Our current pool is a simple rectangular design with the spa built into one corner and covered by the autocover along with the pool.

Thanks. I hadn’t really thought about cover, but that might be a great idea this time. Would you share a picture of your design? We are thinking spa built into corner as well

 

[flynwill]

I posted a full thread on the build here:

Another new pool in Southern California.

Greetings: I know this forum is mostly posts from folks with work underway but I thought I might share our nearly year long pool building adventure. Highlights of the timeline were: 10/25/20 - Signed the contract with pool builder 5/20/21 - Excavation begins 6/16/21 - Shotcrete 10/12/21 -...

www.troublefreepool.com