2018: Fiberglass install uxbridge ointario

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
The shell is ordered. Blue Hawaiian "Wellington" 12' x 25' (7000 gallons)
I am a heavy equipment operator and would like two do a late March/Early April install before work gets nuts. I will farm out concrete finishing and gas connections. Earth moving, placement, pluming and concrete forming will be done by me.
Base and backfill will be HPB. Concrete deck will be 6" thick 35mpa with fibre. There will be a 12" thick collar around the shell with coped edge. Vertical fibreglass rods will act to lock concrete to pool perimeter. This pool will have weeping tile around it to a sump pit. I will not order pool components for another 6 weeks because I do not want my garage taken up as storage.

I am changing my list of components all the time but this is what I have so far.


Heater:
Raypak Digital 266 cuni.

Pump: 3/4hp single speed


Filter: Pentaire 420 sq cartridge.


Salt: AquaRite xl 25k gal


Robot cleaner : Dolphin???


Lighting Pal 2L4 x 2, pcr4 http://pallightingusa.com/product-detail-overview/?id=NTI=

Tiger flex hose


Fittings


Check valves


Valves


Coping: mm-jac-fg modern moulding https://www.modernmoulding.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/FG-Store-Display-Final.pdf

Unions

Heater reader wifi/app pool controller.
http://www.heaterreader.com

Flow meter?


Safety cover

I still don't even know exactly where the pool is going but I have 3 options as pictured.

The first pic, directly in front of my deck will be my preferred location. I have 30' from the deck to the fence. That leaves 18feet for pool decking and landscaping.

20180131_144937.jpg20180131_145044.jpg20180131_145149.jpgWellington06.jpgWellington01.jpg

 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jun 22, 2014
35,951
Texas, San Antonio/Marion, South-Central Area
Pool Size
17888
Surface
Fiberglass
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Being such a DIY person and equipment operator, you may already know this, but just to be sure .... make sure the pool is properly bonded as well. When our shell was dropped in the ground and rebar installed, they installed bonding before pouring the decking. Very important. If you have any questions about bonding (or grounding versus bonding) post back or do a quick search as some of our experts have that process down like the back of their hands. Good luck!
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
Awesome tip Tex. Thank you. I have considered bonding. It is not required by code in my area for non metallic pools. Metal ladder, yes or anything else metallic. I won’t even be using metal grid or rebar in my slab. I do have a roll of #6 copper that’s been sitting around for 10 years. I might as well use it.
 

keithw

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2007
327
Virginia Beach
Hello Chris. Looking forward to your install. What brand is Wellington? It looks to be the EXACT form that my pool was created with except they have added a seat in the shallow end. Otherwise steps, length, depth width, deep end swimout are identical to mine. I got mine in 2004 and it was made by CPC Pools who were then acquired by Viking. Yours actually looks like it is made by Trilogy, Classic Freeform | Trilogy Pools. But they call it the Enterprise. You might want to drop Trilogy a line and see what say and maybe get the name of a trilogy dealer near you if there is one. You can normally get a price quote on just the shell. Back when I got mine, I paid $6.5K for the white shell pool.
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
Hello Chris. Looking forward to your install. What brand is Wellington? It looks to be the EXACT form that my pool was created with except they have added a seat in the shallow end. Otherwise steps, length, depth width, deep end swimout are identical to mine. I got mine in 2004 and it was made by CPC Pools who were then acquired by Viking. Yours actually looks like it is made by Trilogy, Classic Freeform | Trilogy Pools. But they call it the Enterprise. You might want to drop Trilogy a line and see what say and maybe get the name of a trilogy dealer near you if there is one. You can normally get a price quote on just the shell. Back when I got mine, I paid $6.5K for the white shell pool.

it is a Blue Hawaiian model, owned by Latham who likely owns Viking too. 6.5k is about 8k Canadian. The price is double that now. :-(
 

needsajet

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 4, 2016
4,974
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Pool Size
44000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
Location looks great. If I had mine to do over, I would think about where all the pool stuff goes (inflatable stuff, pool toys, pool cleaner, brush/scoop pole, acid, bleach, etc.)

Looks like your town requires safety fencing, so if it does, I'd include that in my planning, including where the gate goes, and how it affects use/maintenance of the yard, what it looks like, etc. At the same time, access to a toilet can be considered.

Glad to see you're going salt water, that saves a lot of bother running a pool. You also mention automation, which I don't really think you'll need, but if going that route, it's generally recommended to stay with one brand for automation, pump and salt water chlorinator (SWG). Down here, the SWG has the timers and the pump is plugged into the SWG so they run at the same time. Maybe Canada has that option, but you don't hear about it so much in America. In that case, an intermatic timer with pump and SWG, or two timers ensures that the SWG is run only when the pump runs.

It will work totally fine with a single-speed pump, but in the overall cost, upgrading to a variable speed pump isn't much money. Quietness is nice to have, and overall flexibility.

For single-speed, I wouldn't bother with the flow meter, but if putting in check valves, use Pentair or Jandy so you could fit one later if you want it. I would use Jandy never-lube valves wherever a valve is needed. They're durable and can be re-built without removing them, and they're really nice to turn!

Have fun with your pool build! :)
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
Thanks Needs a jet.

I had flow meter on my list because I am considering a VS pump. The automation controller I selected doesn't work with vs pumps so I have selected a single speed. All is subject to change from my advice on this forum and other research. We do not need safety fencing however the yard needs to be fenced and gate must be spring loaded and locked from inside. My first choice for location leaves the other half of this small yard for other things and it also puts the pool closest to the equipment shed.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
50,368
Tallahassee, FL
I like your first placement. I like having the yard left over to do other stuff in especially if you have kids and/or pets.

Pump-2 speed or vs speed pump. I would not do a single speed as it will use more electric on a daily bases. I only use high on my two speed pump when I am running my cleaner BUT you will have the robot so will almost never use high speed.

Kim:kim:
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
I like your first placement. I like having the yard left over to do other stuff in especially if you have kids and/or pets.

Pump-2 speed or vs speed pump. I would not do a single speed as it will use more electric on a daily bases. I only use high on my two speed pump when I am running my cleaner BUT you will have the robot so will almost never use high speed. Kim:kim:

I realllllllly want a vs. Have done extensive research on them but I need it to work with my automation. I want to be able to check and change pool temp via smart phone. There is still hope for a vs. Components are not set in stone.

Now I hear most heaters require more flow than many VS pumps do on the lower rpm ranges. Is this true? Because if I need to run the pump on high speed every time there is a call for heat, the extra money spent on VS could be wasted because where I live, there will always be a call for heat. lol
 

needsajet

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 4, 2016
4,974
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Pool Size
44000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
Haha, don't worry, there won't always be a call for heat in Southern Ontario. The sun is the best heater of all, and contrary to global opinion, the sun does shine in Canada, and they even get dog days now and then. Also, you will have non-swimming periods when you'll just be circulating water, and/or when conditions are such that heating is a hopeless exercise in futility!

There is nothing wrong with a single speed pump, sized correctly, and possibly 1/2 to 3/4 HP for that size pool (2" pipe). It has to hit the flow rate for the heater, which will undoubtedly be enough for an SWG as well. It's simple and highly reliable, no-fuss, git 'er done. Assuming 6 hrs daily during a 4 month swimming season, 3 hrs daily for 3 months, and closed for 5 months, a 1 HP pump at $0.15 per kWh will cost about $120 a year.

Having more power at the ready can be nice for skimming when you need it done fast. (arrive home, pool is covered in leaves or pollen, and you just found out there's people coming over). Flip on high speed, grab the scoop, and 2 beers later it looks pretty good. I would go 2-speed at least, and probably VS. If no automation, I'd leave it to run on perfect heater speed for the heating season, and gain from low or high when I can. If I went VS, I would also have a FlowVis, though you can do it all without one.

America/Canada folk... Can any of the higher end VS pumps listen for a signal from the heater? (rather than having to buy pool automation)

My VS is a small one. No timers (my SWG provides the timers). It just runs on whatever speed it was last set for. The three speeds are set independently in 50 RPM increments, or you can just leave it on the defaults which work fine for me. It's a Fasco (Regal Beloit) DC brushless motor, which also makes it a bit more efficient even at the same level of work. Should be very long lasting as well.

More flow makes a backwash faster, but very likely the same amount of water. Suction cleaners benefit from being able to tune the speed, but my comments on suction cleaner advantages may not be appreciated, lol ;)

Glad to hear you don't need a dedicated fence.
 

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Swampwoman

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Apr 27, 2012
3,798
Grand Rapids, MI
The automation controller I selected doesn't work with vs pumps so I have selected a single speed.

I was wondering about that heater reader and VSP. The product looks interesting for a retrofit but in a new install I think you'd be better served possibly with traditional automation systems that can work with mobile phone apps -- eg Pentair easy touch.

Or, if you aren't that attached to mobile phone control, a cheaper date is a Intermatic PE 653, which will control a vsp (if its Pentair) straight out of the box or other brands with an extension. Its older tech, and comes with a remote control. Using the schedule feature you can set up run times for pump and heat to coincide at the rpm you need.

Mine was only $350. But again, I sacrificed the mobile app capability, though I did look long and hard at practical ways to retrofit automation. If it were a new build, I'd likely go with the easy touch (Pentair).

With the vsp, in my setting, my heater is happy these days at 2600 rpm, (about 45 gpm flow on my old 1.5" system) which is still a dramatic savings over running at 3450 rpm. My swg will operate down around 1100. What I like most about the vsp is the flexibility of dialing it in right where you need it. I run my heat in dedicated schedules remotely and set my limit on the heater itself.

In your case, if you wanted to thermostat your pool to a particular temp 24/7, then yes, you would need to run a baseline rpm high enough to cover the heater. But with the vsp, you would still be able to set that to 24/7 at a lower point than a single speed.

I'd not recommend a 2 speed in your case if you planned to thermostat because its entirely possible that the second speed would be too low.

I'm guessing the heater reader is pretty new and perhaps they'll develop an extension to manage pump speeds, depending on how it works, but at the price you're half to 2/3rds of the way to full brand automation (and more than double the pe653) so you might want to look into that a bit further.

VSPs also come with onboard scheduling that can run independently of automation. But you can also schedule it to always be at a set rate such as 2600 rpm. So you could make the heater reader work by being a straight on/off switch for your pump if you went with a vsp.

Hope that helps. Automation gets kind of tricky once you move beyond scheduling and remotes and bring mobile apps or Alexa into the picture ;)
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
You guys are giving me a ton of good information and advise and trust me, I am listening.
What has attracted me to the Heater Reader is it's simplicity. A caveman could operate it. :)
It also calculates cost of natural gas and electricity used. A pretty cool feature.

but ya, I really want that VS technology. :). Most of the people commenting have massive pools. Mine will only be 6000 gallons. The savings by going to VS would be less than a 20k pool.
 

uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
I haven’t decided on much but I have picked my lights. love the design of these and the way they install. Being in Canada I always order spares (in this case bulbs) of the things that are only available internationally.

I think 2 fixtures will do for my 25‘ pool but not opposed to installing 3.
 

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uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
We've had a crazy winter. at least 3 seperate weeks where the teps were well above freezing. Naturally I'm talk to my dealer to find out when my pool will be in. lol

Snow is all gone. this is the size of the pool less rounded corners and the location I have decided on. It's closest to my equipment pad and like someone else suggested, I will have that whole area of grass to the left for other stuff.
 

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uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
As mentioned, my chosen pool location has some slope challenges that are not obvious in the previous photos. I will be building a retaining wall to level off the area using 2’ x 2’ x 4’ precast concrete blocks. (2500 pounds each). This will be done after pool installation as it will prevent me from getting my excavator out of the yard, The wall will be 4’ high (1’ buried below grade) and will leave 16” of block above the pool deck. Perfect height to sit on.

A couple pics pics of the style of block, where the wall is going and the length of wall. The load side of the wall will have 4” weeping tile and back filled with hpb.
Maple tree, Blue spruce and cedars have to go
 

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uxbridgechris

Bronze Supporter
Jan 25, 2018
655
uxbridge, Ontario Canada
Will you be able to re-plant the cypress and other trees?

2500lbs EACH??? Those are some BIG Legos there!!! How big a crew will you use to do this work? What do you use to "glue" them together?

Kim:kim:

Just like you say Kim. think Lego. They have 2 bumps on top that lock onto 2 holes on the bottom of the upper row. It's not tight like Lego but with the weight, they are going nowhere.
The crew will be me and likely my 70 year old dad. I'll sit him in a lawn chair and he can bark his unwanted opinion. lol
Blocks will be moved with an excavator.

The blue spruce tree will go in a chipper. It's really is the wrong tree for a small residential lot. it will be 80' tall I'm 20 years. The other ones I will try to relocate.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
50,368
Tallahassee, FL
LOL do you REALLY think he will stay in the chair??? Make sure to give him a camera to take pics for us! At least the pool will already be in so you can jump in to cool off!

Is there a "topper" block to help finish it off pretty?

Kim:kim:
 

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