1st Pool + 1st Test Results: Confused

[Navigator6850]

Hi everyone,

Long story short I've inherited my first pool (new house purchase), have read through TFP Pool School articles, purchased the Clear Choice Labs Total Salt Water Pool Test Kit (nearest Australian equivalent to the TF-100), and got excited for my first testing session.

Well I've just started and finished (quit) my first test session. Began with the CYA test which remained clear right to the top of the viewing tube, so I pressume this means I have next to no CYA (certainly <30). Proceeded to the FC test --> add water sample --> add heaped powder --> mixed --> solution turned bright pink --> added 25 drops of reagent with no colour change....by this point I was a little confused, disheartened and losing daylight so have called it quits for the night.

I'm now confused and unsure as to what course of action to take. I also don't know what to make of the 2x tests and the results above, are they plausible at all (particularly the FC)?

For what it's worth I thought the pool water looks fairly clean and clear, perhaps its not "crystal" clear to my untrained eye, but it's definitely not a heavy green, murky or cloudy.
I'm currently contemplating if the levels are so far out that they are beyond my scope as a new pool owner and I should (initially) take a sample to the pool shop to get me started and everything in order . Is there a better way? Anything I should look into? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Texas Splash]

G'Day! It is odd that your FC would be very high with next to no CYA showing. You would think the sun would steel that chlorine quickly. You're approaching the cooler season over there, so perhaps that's part of it. What is your water temp at the moment? Colder water and a lower angle of sun will certainly preserve FC.

 

[mknauss]

What volume water sample did you use for the FC test?

 

[Navigator6850]

What volume water sample did you use for the FC test?

I'll have to confirm later (late at night here), however talking a fairly small amount. The instructions say to divide number of drops (to water turning clear) by 2 to get the FC in ppm. So suggesting >12.5ppm. Instructions can be downloaded here Clear Choice Labs testing instructions

I was wondering if it is likely that it could be that high (especially with CYA so low), or is it possible we have no chlorine (would the sample still turn pink if there was no chlorine)?

 

[mknauss]

What is your SWCG set to create in FC each day?

 

[SJPoe]

Just a thought - just looking at a potential units-of-measure inconsistency
Your signature says 25,000L - that is rougly 7000gallon.
An Astral E25 is spec'd to produce about 1.3lbs of FC a day, which at 100% and 24 hour run time, would be 23ppm.

Even with no CYA, if that SWG is turned all the way up and the pump is running all day long, it's possible to get a lot of FC.

Also, make sure your sample is not coming from directly in front of the return while the SWG is producing chlorine, or you'll potentially skew the result !

The test kit sounds like its essentially rebadged Taylor, or at least, Taylor-adjacent

 

[Navigator6850]

G'Day! It is odd that your FC would be very high with next to no CYA showing. You would think the sun would steel that chlorine quickly. You're approaching the cooler season over there, so perhaps that's part of it. What is your water temp at the moment? Colder water and a lower angle of sun will certainly preserve FC.

I don't have a thermometer to measure exactly, however I'm at the northern end of Australia, our temperatures are quite warm year round, for example ambient temperature is still 16-28 degrees Celsius (60-82 Fahrenheit) over the winter.

 

[Navigator6850]

Just a thought - just looking at a potential units-of-measure inconsistency
Your signature says 25,000L - that is rougly 7000gallon.
An Astral E25 is spec'd to produce about 1.3lbs of FC a day, which at 100% and 24 hour run time, would be 23ppm.

Even with no CYA, if that SWG is turned all the way up and the pump is running all day long, it's possible to get a lot of FC.

Also, make sure your sample is not coming from directly in front of the return while the SWG is producing chlorine, or you'll potentially skew the result !

The test kit sounds like its essentially rebadged Taylor, or at least, Taylor-adjacent

Hi SJPoe, yes those numbers are correct. The SWG was (and is still) set to the maximum level 8, however it has a low salt warning coming on intermittently. Pump is only running 8 hours a day (4 in the am and 4 in the pm).

Sample was taken away from the return jets and skimmer box, approx. mid point of pool length, elbow deep.

 

[Navigator6850]

What is your SWCG set to create in FC each day?

I've left the SWG alone on the settings it was when we moved in which is, level 8 (max level), running on an auto schedule for a total of 8hrs pump + SWG run time (4hrs in the AM + 4hrs in the PM). The SWG specs have the 24hr chlorine output listed as ~1.32lbs.

The system is showing an low salt indicator intermittently though.

 

[Navigator6850]

So currently thinking I maybe need to retry and run through the full suite of tests just to see if I get any useable results on the remaining test suite.

The FC test is what really has me puzzled. Does anyone know if we have next to no chlorine in the pool would the test solution still turn pink?

 

[AUSpool]

The E25’s are a good unit. If you’re getting a low salt warning you probably need more salt. Did you run the salt test? I would put in half a bag and watch for that low salt to go out, or not come on. But the salt test will tell you your actual level. The end point is when the test first turns to a milky pink salmon. Run the test as I mentioned before.

It sounds like you’re doing the test just fine. The FC is best with a 10ml sample as you’re doing. Staying pink at 25drops means your FC is >12ppm and I’m not surprised with the SWG on 8hrs@8. That’s kind of your max summer setting. My FC just this week was just over 10 with the SWG at 4hrs@4 in a 20kL pool with no sun. I’ve turned my SWG down to 3hrs@3 and have the cell off for a few days to bring the FC down a little faster. Turn your SWG down, maybe 2 x 3hrs and set it to 4. If your pool still gets sun through winter the UV will burn through some of that FC.

The best thing you can get for self testing is the magnetic stirrer. CCL have them or we can get them from eBay.

Raise your CyA in steps, use the Old PoolMath webpage link below or the app to the find your dose rate. I use the kitchen scales to measure out my dose. Cheap stabiliser from bunnings or Aldi when they have it is as good as any. Leave the new dose of CyA in the pool for a few days before you test again.

Get yourself a note book to record you test results, additions and SWG settings. You can log all that in the app too.

 

[AUSpool]

There is a lot of info in the beginning, luckily it’s winter for us when everything slows down.

Another important point to make is to keep the test kit dry, out of direct sun and store it in a cool dry place like a laundry cupboard. After collecting a sample dry your hands thoroughly before doing the test. The FC detection powder in particular doesn’t like moisture. I do all my testing inside where it’s cooler. Avoiding big temperature changes does help. Think about a cheap plastic tackle box to keep every thing in one place.

Have a look at the FC/CYA Levels page for the idea levels to target. I run at 7ppm FC and 70ppm CyA. But I let that slip to 5ppm FC and 50ppm CyA through winter.

The CyA turbidity test is tricky but you do get used to, I use the ‘fill to the line method.’

CYA Testing - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Navigator6850]

The E25’s are a good unit. If you’re getting a low salt warning you probably need more salt. Did you run the salt test? I would put in half a bag and watch for that low salt to go out, or not come on. But the salt test will tell you your actual level. The end point is when the test first turns to a milky pink salmon. Run the test as I mentioned before.

It sounds like you’re doing the test just fine. The FC is best with a 10ml sample as you’re doing. Staying pink at 25drops means your FC is >12ppm and I’m not surprised with the SWG on 8hrs@8. That’s kind of your max summer setting. My FC just this week was just over 10 with the SWG at 4hrs@4 in a 20kL pool with no sun. I’ve turned my SWG down to 3hrs@3 and have the cell off for a few days to bring the FC down a little faster. Turn your SWG down, maybe 2 x 3hrs and set it to 4. If your pool still gets sun through winter the UV will burn through some of that FC.

The best thing you can get for self testing is the magnetic stirrer. CCL have them or we can get them from eBay.

Raise your CyA in steps, use the Old PoolMath webpage link below or the app to the find your dose rate. I use the kitchen scales to measure out my dose. Cheap stabiliser from bunnings or Aldi when they have it is as good as any. Leave the new dose of CyA in the pool for a few days before you test again.

Get yourself a note book to record you test results, additions and SWG settings. You can log all that in the app too.

Really appreciate the detailed response, I'll give this a go and report back, starting with salt level this afternoon.

 

[Navigator6850]

So I've re-run the full suite of tests this morning and got much more useful results shown below (not sure what I did wrong the first time with the FC test but below result seems correct). However salt level now appears to be the big issue....

FC = 2.5​

CC = 0​

pH = 7.6​

TA = 20​

CH = 125​

CYA = <30 (limit of test equipment)​

Salt = 10,080*​

*Believe this to be reasonably accurate (read in the ballpark) as last week I called around to local pool shops to see if the previous owner had perhaps been using their services and if they had records on the pool volume. Turns out they did and the owner mentioned that the last test they did recorded a very high salt reading to the point we shouldn't need to add any more salt for the rest of the year. I also confirmed my test working correctly using the provided standard solution that came with the kit.

Seems I've got a trip to Bunnings or the pool shop to beginning correcting. However, the salt is now the concern and is obviously well above recommended for my E25 SWG (recommended 4,100-8,000 per manual). I'm now in the process:

1. Researching at what point the high salt levels become of critical concern.
2. PoolMath suggesting to remove around half the pools water and replace to correct salt levels....I'm trying to work out if the salt levels are not critical is this absolutely necessary or can I simply let the levels reduce the rain events, loss of water and so on over the coming season?
3. If I do need to replace the water, should I do this first then perform a full suite of retests, then add chemicals as appropriate? Or is there any benefit to correcting my other metrics prior to replacement of water to correct salt level?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

(side note - having now done the full suite of testing, I see the value in the magnetic stirrers....I'll be looking to source one asap)

 

[AUSpool]

Something is not right with that salt test. Where does the 10,080 come from? The CCL drop test has a resolution of 200ppm/drop. How many drops did you record for the 4000ppm standard and your pool sample?

I have found the local pool shops to be quite bad at the salt test.

Does the SWG cell look like it has scale build up?

When the salt level is above the manufacturers max it’s a good idea to reduce the output to 50% until the level are within the range. Since its winter you should be at about 50% through winter. But your actual run time and output should be balanced according to you FC target and testing.

Be cautious draining water, concrete pools will pop out of the ground. Is the ground dry or do you gave a low water table?

Draining water will reduce your CyA and CH levels, both of which you are about to top up. I would get a handle on your salt level first. Those drop counts would be a good start. I don’t normally recomended test strips but at a pinch the Aquacheck salt strips aren’t too bad but you must get the right ones. The ones that look like a little 10cm ruler, the ones with colored squares like found at the bunnings test station are Crud.

 

[Navigator6850]

Something is not right with that salt test. Where does the 10,080 come from? The CCL drop test has a resolution of 200ppm/drop. How many drops did you record for the 4000ppm standard and your pool sample?

I have found the local pool shops to be quite bad at the salt test.

Does the SWG cell look like it has scale build up?

When the salt level is above the manufacturers max it’s a good idea to reduce the output to 50% until the level are within the range. Since its winter you should be at about 50% through winter. But your actual run time and output should be balanced according to you FC target and testing.

Be cautious draining water, concrete pools will pop out of the ground. Is the ground dry or do you gave a low water table?

Draining water will reduce your CyA and CH levels, both of which you are about to top up. I would get a handle on your salt level first. Those drop counts would be a good start. I don’t normally recomended test strips but at a pinch the Aquacheck salt strips aren’t too bad but you must get the right ones. The ones that look like a little 10cm ruler, the ones with colored squares like found at the bunnings test station are Crud.

Hey mate,

10,080 came from the salt test as part of the Clear Choice Labs Kit. Total of 63 drops until the solution changed colour from the milky yellow to milky red. Based on the instructions (multiply drops by 200) this would actually equate to 12,600ppm (+-200ppm), however performing the test using the included "standard" solution at 4,000pm resulted in a total of 25 drops for colour change, meaning a revised multiply factor of 160. Therefore, 63 x 160 = 10,080ppm (+- ~160ppm).
"Standard" test performed as per Instructions but replace pool sample with standard mix. 1) fill viewing tube to indicated line uising the included "standard solution". 2) add 5x drops of detection reagent 3) add 1x drop of titrating agent at a time and mix, counting drops until colour change.

I've changed SWG output to 50% yesterday afternoon. Have not taken the cell out as yet to have a close look (was on the to do list but will look to do it asap now).

We've had a long wet season up here and still getting intermittent showers so ground is moist but not saturated. New to the property but I wouldn't think the water table is too high on the basis that there is a light decline towards the rear of the property which should promote seepage away from the yard/pool.

 

[Navigator6850]

A further progress update. I've managed to get the cell out. The plates themselves I think look ok. In general black and shiny, possibly a tiny amount of build-up just beginning to form on the tips of the plates (outlet end), but I feel this is fairly minor. Possibly some build up to the plastic component at the end (outlet) of the unit (note sure how much this matters). Also noted some corrosion at the terminals, and at one point on the inside of the cap (not sure what it is? a sensor?) so these are probably worth giving a clean once I get supplies. That said performed a bucket test and the cell appears to be working (difficult to see in photos) however it was bubbling away.

Photos below/attached.

 

[AUSpool]

Hey mate,

10,080 came from the salt test as part of the Clear Choice Labs Kit. Total of 63 drops until the solution changed colour from the milky yellow to milky red. Based on the instructions (multiply drops by 200) this would actually equate to 12,600ppm (+-200ppm), however performing the test using the included "standard" solution at 4,000pm resulted in a total of 25 drops for colour change, meaning a revised multiply factor of 160. Therefore, 63 x 160 = 10,080ppm (+- ~160ppm).
"Standard" test performed as per Instructions but replace pool sample with standard mix. 1) fill viewing tube to indicated line uising the included "standard solution". 2) add 5x drops of detection reagent 3) add 1x drop of titrating agent at a time and mix, counting drops until colour change.

I've changed SWG output to 50% yesterday afternoon. Have not taken the cell out as yet to have a close look (was on the to do list but will look to do it asap now).

We've had a long wet season up here and still getting intermittent showers so ground is moist but not saturated. New to the property but I wouldn't think the water table is too high on the basis that there is a light decline towards the rear of the property which should promote seepage away from the yard/pool.

Good work, yeh thats how it’s done. I would say your salt is very high. The previous owner was probably randomly dumping salt in as per shop or FB advice due to that low salt error. I have seen pool stores calibrating their salt meter with tap water, then when they measure pool water at ~6000ppm it reads low and they recommend to add salt when it’s not needed. Its such a shame with all the rain you get up there that you have high salt.

I really hope you didn’t put that extra 1/2 bag in.

To be safe you can exchange water without draining using the no drain method. Essentially adding and removing at the same time and rate from top and bottom. If you can get a hose to siphon from the bottom of the pool you can add fresh tap water to the top.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

probably worth giving a clean once I get supplies

Check out our guide on cleaning:

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Navigator6850]

Good work, yeh thats how it’s done. I would say your salt is very high. The previous owner was probably randomly dumping salt in as per shop or FB advice due to that low salt error. I have seen pool stores calibrating their salt meter with tap water, then when they measure pool water at ~6000ppm it reads low and they recommend to add salt when it’s not needed. Its such a shame with all the rain you get up there that you have high salt.

I really hope you didn’t put that extra 1/2 bag in.

To be safe you can exchange water without draining using the no drain method. Essentially adding and removing at the same time and rate from top and bottom. If you can get a hose to siphon from the bottom of the pool you can add fresh tap water to the top.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Fortunately no extra salt has gone in!

So you would recommend replacing some water in lieu of letting it come back itself over time?