New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb

[kimkats]

Tenderfoot, Brian is a master pool builder. What he shares here is based on "real world" use. A good example is the temp sensor. He is not one to push his way but he is one I would do as he suggests because of his experiences. It is up to you.

The B/O start up-yes it depends on daily testing and such. It will be quite costly to pay someone to do it for you......hummmmmm are there any late teens in your neighborhood that can follow directions and can be trusted? Maybe you can teach them (or I can with videos and such) how to do the tests??? With you doing so much travel the B/O start up might not be your best bet.

Plaster-it all depends on the skills of the installers. If they have skills the acid start up is not needed. Maybe see if you can get a hold of the plaster bosses and see what THEY have to say about what you have learned! Saying that...................there are more pools that have been acid washed than have not. They turn out okay. It is the long term that might be the difference. I would call around and ask questions then share what you find out about your area's skills and willingness to do things a little different.

Shopping list:

number 1 pick- TF-100 Start Up DELUXE (TF-100 test kit, Speedstir, 18 Nylon Whale Wall brush, Skimmer Angel, Skimmer net, Fine mesh Leaf Rake, pH meter, Deluxe thermometer)

number 2 picks- TF-100 Start Up (TF-100 kit, Speedstir, Skimmer Angel, Wall Whale brush)

You will LOVE the whale wall brush. I have heard it makes brushing so much easier and effective!

Home shopping list:

-2 2cups plastic measuring cups (plastic)- one for muriatic acid, the other for everything else

-white, plastic plate to hold up behind PH test tube

-muriatic acid-make sure to get the 30% stuff. It is mostly kept outside by the pool stuff. Find a kid safe way/place to store it. It can NOT be stored by chlorine as they do not play well together and you do not to store it by metal as the fumes can cause rust. Several people buy a small, plastic deck box or such to store it in outside out of the way.

-chlorine/bleach-same stuff just different %-find a local place you can swing by weekly or so. Some pool stores will allow you to buy it in bulk. You just have to put a deposit down on the jugs. Some people use Walmart or Targets house brand of bleach BUT make sure to check the date code as you do not want it older than 3 months. Walmart has their "shock" which is 10% chlorine in season. Most stores have it in stock now. I would not buy any yet. Just do some looking around so you will know where you will be getting it from.

-CYA-aka stablizer. I buy mine from Lowes or Walmart. Just make sure it is at least 99% active ingredient.

Do not add anything to the pool without running it by us. We have done MANY tests to find the best way to add some of the stuff. The bottle directions are way off on the best practices so.........

This should not hurt your wallet too much! I will start sharing pool care with you at little at a time so as to not overwhelm you

Kim

 

[bdavis466]

I put my temp sensor before the pump. I don't know why some people like this after the pump as then you get some heat added by the pump giving a false reading. Putting it before gives you the most accurate reading of the actual pool temp. It doesn't really matter however in the grand scheme of things.

The trouble with installing it before the pump is the possibility of creating a suction side air leak - and one that cannot be fixed without major repairs. The temperature sensors are pretty hokey how they get installed so placing one on the suction side is just a bad idea. Given the volume of water that is directed through the pump, the water doesn’t sit near the impeller long enough to heat up.

Anywhere in the system after the pump is perfectly fine.

@KimKats: Oh boy... I now have information overload. hahaha!!! Thank you! I am reading one by one through the threads you linked. I think I need to do the "pool school - water chemistry" first because a lot of that stuff is going WAY over my head.

Hmmm... I have to travel for work quite a bit this month and I am noticing in the "bicarbonate startup thread" that you linked that the startup is a very time consuming process. I am thinking I am going to have to hire someone to do the startup because I don't think anyone here at home will be willing to help while I am away. So... I am in North Dallas... Anyone know who would do the startup following one of the preferred/recommended procedures on here?

Also, all the plaster people I have spoken to are saying they acid wash the plaster. :-( I read the thread created by member onBalance and I like his reasoning for not using acid on the pebble plaster. Anyone know a plaster company in North Dallas that won't use acid wash?

@KimKats: I see you have the TF-100 Test Kit. I assume even if I don't end up doing the startup myself I still need this for ongoing maintenance? BTW, I can't wait for that shopping list! Not that I want to go shopping (I have sunk too much $$ with all the issues, etc...) but I do want to make sure I am prepared and also not buying unnecessary stuff.

Pebble finishes get acid washed the day following application. There really isn’t any way around it. Sure it’s not ideal but pebble has been around for several decades and it’s still considered one of the longest lasting finishes. It’s a necessary step to expose the pebbles.

The bicarb startup does require constant attention and you will not likely find any pool builders or plaster companies that embrace it because of the constant attention they require in the month to follow application. To be truthful, providing long lasting surface really aren’t in their best interest anyway.

The startup is a critical period for the plaster but the maintenance thereafter is just as important. My suggestion is to let the company do it their way and once the pool is in your hands you can be diligent about maintaining proper levels.

 

[tenderfoot]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing all your wisdom and expertise! 7 months ago, I honestly did not know there was so much to know about a pool. I thought it was just about getting in and swimming! ;-)

 

[kimkats]

That makes my heart happy and my mind worried we overloaded you

So where is your head right now? What kind of start up and care are you shooting for.? If we know this we can provide you the support you need to get it done.

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

Kim, I will let the pros handle the startup because I honestly just want this project finished already! Plus, my mother is flying into town for Mother's Day and the pool must be ready by then, we already missed 2 parties where it was supposed to be introduced to the family, relatives and close friends but we can't miss this one.

I will likely also have to live with the fact that the plaster company will acid wash the mini-pebble (Stonescapes Aqua Blue) the day after the install.

I made a couple of inquiries, the startup seems to be around $450. Sigh... Oh well, I'll just have to tap into the piggy bank some more.

 

[kimkats]

That is fine! You do what you need to do to get it done AND make the family happy!

Once it gets started up and you are ready we will help you maintain it so it last as long as any pool can and as trouble free as possible!

Kim

 

[PoolguyinCT]

Kim, I will let the pros handle the startup because I honestly just want this project finished already! Plus, my mother is flying into town for Mother's Day and the pool must be ready by then, we already missed 2 parties where it was supposed to be introduced to the family, relatives and close friends but we can't miss this one.

I will likely also have to live with the fact that the plaster company will acid wash the mini-pebble (Stonescapes Aqua Blue) the day after the install.

I made a couple of inquiries, the startup seems to be around $450. Sigh... Oh well, I'll just have to tap into the piggy bank some more.

Wow - that’s really inexpensive.. are you responsible for brushing??
What is included for the 450?

Complete Startups run about 3k for 30 day break-in.

 

[tenderfoot]

Thanks Kim!

@PoolguyinCT: I am not sure if I am responsible for brushing, but if it normally costs as much as you say, then that's probably the case. I am travelling so I have not been able to touch base with them on that. I'll post on here what's included when I find out. ** Update: It is a 1-week service, which includes all the chemicals and required manual labor (brushing).

Revisiting one of my previous questions: is the hayward hydrostatic valve (this one: Amazon.com : Hayward SP1056 Hydrostatic Relief Valve : Swimming Pool Maintenance Kits : Garden Outdoor) the type I want? or is it something else? Can I install those myself (one per SUMP) by just putting some teflon on the threads and tighten unto the bottom port of the SUMP?

Thanks!

 

[tenderfoot]

Great news, we are scheduled to have the plaster be installed on Tuesday (Apr 17). We are going to go with the Stonescapes Aqua White. Yes, we changed! We saw a couple of pools with the Aqua Blue and they were nice, but we wanted it to be more blue.

We've currently thinking to have the Abalone Shells AND the glass beads. We saw the shells at a couple of pools and they look awesome to us. We also liked the glass beads, but we are not sure how those would change the Aqua White. We could not see an actual pool with Aqua White and the glass beads. Anyone know what the effect would be? I am nervous that it would make the blue water we are going for lean towards green.

I have also managed to get a stay on my work travel for the next 3 weeks. So I will be doing the startup myself! Time to go read all the chemistry stuff. I knew I should have paid better attention in CHM2103! ;-)

So... I need help with the shopping list Kim! Could you guide me on what stuff (products) I will need to do the pool startup please? I've updated my signature with the gory details of the pool.

Thanks!

 

[kimkats]

Did you get all of the stuff in post 61? If not start shopping! That is all of what you need to get started.

I also have a brand new link about plaster! Done by our own OnBalance! He is our go to guy for anything plaster!

A Plastering 'Watch List' | Professional Watershaping | Watershapes

If you pick and chose the colors of the beads you can get THE color you want. We have had some do a "sorting" party with the whole family to "clean out" the beads of unwanted colors LOL

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

Thanks Kim! We'll have to do that with the beads. I guess I should use the RGB color code to figure out which ones have green on them? Sorry, not sure how we'd decide which beads would turn the water greenish.

Shopping: I ordered the TF-100 Deluxe kit. Here's hoping it gets here by Wednesday!

I am going to go get the following today and tomorrow locally:

-muriatic acid- 30% stuff. --------> How much of it (gallons)?

-chlorine/bleach- ------> You said to not buy it yet, but won't I need it for the pool startup too? How much of it (gallons)? what percent concentration?

-CYA-aka stablizer. -----> How much of it (gallons)?

- Two plastic measuring cups (each of "2 cup" measuring capacity)

 

[kimkats]

Muriatic acid comes in a two jug box at Lowes. I really don't know but THINK they are a gallon each.............oh you need to buy something to put it in. It canNOT be stored by the chlorine as they do not play well together. Nor can it be stored by metal as the fumes can cause rust. Quite a few people buy a small, plastic something and keep it outside. Now if you have kids or critters make sure it is lockable and safe.

Chlorine/bleach-IF you have a pool store that has chlorine you will get it in 2.5 gal jugs that you have to put a deposit on to use. Pool Store chlorine is 11%. If you buy bleach from the store-Walmart-pool shock is 10% BUT their bleach in NOT a good buy any more as they have lowered it to 6% for the same price as the 8% gurrrr. Last I heard is Target has their store brand at 8.24% still and same price. Find what fits into YOUR life! Once you find it learn how to check date codes on the bleach as you do not want it to be older than 3 months. Chlorine from Pool Stores is almost always fresh. So this weekend find YOUR source and buy 5 gallons to get you started.

CYA-got a new toy for you!!! Look at this app: Pool Math It will help you with how much of everything to add! Put in your gallons and put in 0 for the CYA and a goal of 40 to start. It will tell you how much to buy.

That should get you going. If I missed anything PLEASE tell me!

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

And... we now have water!!!

The pool finished filling up today. I am still waiting for confirmation from the city if I can start running the pump so i can begin adding the chemicals and all that before the city does their final inspection tomorrow.

I found all the chemicals with the recommended percentages of chemical concentration that you told me about Kim.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Yay!! Its been a long drawn out build, so I know you're thrilled.

You'll be okay till tomorrow. Have your CYA and bleach at the ready! I found using a leg of old hosiery way faster than socks for the CYA, if you can come up with some.

Maddie

 

[kimkats]

WATER???? OH yeah!!!!

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

Ok. As you recall I had all sorts of issues with the original builder and had to finish this up on my own, so I hired a company to do the plaster and now that it's done I am responsible for doing the entire startup. But I have no clue what to do...

So, I have bought the Deluxe TF-100 Test kit, a long pole, measuring cups (16 oz each), the Muriatic Acid, Chlorine and CYA and read the "Start-up New Plaster" HowTo. But I am honestly lost. Can someone please guide me on what to do?

All I have done so far is: turn on the pump, got all the air out through the gauge on top of the filter, and added the 12 quarts of Diatomaceous Earth by dropping it straight into the skimmer (the guy at the pool store recommended I do all that). The pump ran for about 1 hour total.

What do I do next? I am totally confused as to which of the 3 startup procedures I am supposed to follow (the plaster guy did not recommend/suggest/require anything specific).

The startup howto also says that I should also add a sequestrant to begin with, and a thread discussion clarified that it should be a sequestrant for calcium and that it should be added at least 4 hours BEFORE chlorine. I am going to go to the pool store tomorrow and see if they know which specific one to add. But just in case, do you guys know? Also, how much should I be adding? Do I just walk around the edge/perimeter and poor it? Do I just drop it all in the same spot? or do I drop it into the skimmer?

Help please!

 

[kimkats]

Here is the one I want you to follow. It is easy and clear cut: Start-up Cards - National Plasterers Council Look at the back page. Print it out to help you keep up with where you are at.

You can use just about any sequestrant the pool store might have. It is really most important when you fill your pool from a well as there might be metals in the water. It is cheap insurance for your new pool. It suspends any possible metals in the water. That is why they want you to hold off on the chlorine. If there are any metals in your water the chlorine could react to it and give your water a green tint.

You will use the directions on the bottle to figure out how much and how to add. This is one of the few times the directions provided are correct It does not happen often.

Does this help get your pointed in the right direction? Make sure to ask more questions and share concerns.

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

Hi, thank you for the pointers. I am following the NPC procedures you provided.

Here are the readings from yesterday and today. Note that I have not added any chemicals since Friday, when I added StartUpTek and Muriatic Acid. But it did rain yesterday most of the day... I did brush today, but not yesterday because of the rain.

Yesterday: 7.6 pH, 65 TA (Measured by pool store guy)
Today: 8.2 pH, 80 TA (Measured using the TF-100 kit)

Questions:

1. Is it normal for rain (or was it the sun today) to raise both of those?
2. Should I lower the pH to be somewhere between 7.2 and 7.6 by adding Muriatic Acid? How much acid should I add?
UPDATE: I figured out how to use the poolmath app... I inserted my current readings for pH and TA and it said to add 29 Oz of muriatic acid. I read a thread where they said to add half (or so) first, wait an hour, measure again and add as needed... So I've just added 18 oz.

I have the pump running all day. The pool guy recommended to run it at 2800 RPM for a few hours (1pm to 5 pm) and let it run at 1800 RPM for the rest of each day. So I have done that. However, I have noticed that the PSI (as measured at the filter) goes down to only 2.5 PSI when running at 1800 RPM, but it goes to 12.5 PSI when running at 2800 RPM. Is that normal?

The system seems to be completely free of air when it runs at 2800 RPM because viewing through the glass cover/window on the pump shows no bubbles whatsoever. But, when the pump goes to the lower RPM the clear window at the pump does show to have a lot of air. Is that normal?

 

[kimkats]

Heavy rain, major cannon balls, lots of splashing (kids in pool ), running the bubbler, anything that rolls and splashes the water good can/will push the pH up. Couple that with your plaster being new you will be working on the pH for awhile. Once your plaster is done curing (in as little as 3months to as long as a year) we will work on finding your TA/pH sweet spot. Some like it here, where others like it there. Each pool is different.

Pump speed and bubbles-I am going to have to check with some others to see what they say. I don't have a VS pump so am not sure. I know what my gut says but want to make sure it is right.

pump speed and psi-this IS normal. My two speed pump does the same thing. My psi runs higher when I have it on the high speed than when I have it on the slow speed.

Kim

 

[Texas Splash]

But, when the pump goes to the lower RPM the clear window at the pump does show to have a lot of air. Is that normal?

VSPs are notorious for showing some air bubbles under the clear lid when on a lower RPM for a while. This is another reason why owners generally program their VSPs to ramp-up to a higher RPM once or twice a day for about 5 minutes or so. Helps to purge the air that got trapped. Shouldn't be a whole lot of air or drop in the basket, and certainly never enough to lose prime. If you believe the air gap or amount of bubbles to be excessive, let us know or try to post a pic if you can.