New pool build Far North Dallas Suburb

[tenderfoot]

Thanks Jim. Not being able to automate it would certainly make a huge difference. :-\

I have the manual, I will read through it and see if I can find anything on automation connections. I had naively/simply assumed all these things were automatable.

Ok, and here are some photos of the current state of affairs with this darn project.

In the plumbing photo below there are 4 pipes not connected with the rest of the bunch. The #4 pipe goes to the drain, so it's the backwash line.

I am trying to figure out what the other 3 disconnected pipes are for. I am thinking those are the pipes for the 3 sheer descents. I took off the duct tape off the top of each of those 3 and there's water in all of them! Should I drain them? How!?

 

[Jimrahbe]

tf,

Wow!! Are any of them marked?? Do you know for sure where each of the other pipes go?

I'm not sure what is going on, but all the pipes should have been pressure tested before they were connected at the other end. Just to make sure that none of them leak...

I don't see any reason to drain any of them...

Any automation system will be able to turn your SWCG on/off with a relay... What it might not be able to do is "talk" with the cell so that you can control it remotely, and get readings for the salt level, percent of output, etc...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tenderfoot]

Ok, it looks like we'll be getting some below freezing temperatures and some snow here so without having anything to circulate the water in the pipes right now I was afraid the water could freeze and crack the PVC. I might still drain them, I found a drill pump for a couple of bucks so will try that tomorrow.

I have no clue where any of the other pipes go, whomever comes to hook up the equipment will have to figure that out. I don't think the lines were pressure tested because the jet returns and other pipes on the pool are not plugged up, and wouldn't they all need to be plugged up in order to pressure test the lines? Sigh... But then, why would they connect all the pipes together the way they did and with that faucet at the end???

Yes, you are right. It does look like the truclear11K cannot share its data with the control board, so I would not be able to see readings from the app... Argghhh... Here are the excerpts from the manual that would support that.

 

[PoolGate]

The Jandy SGW both the TrueClear and the FusionSoft fully integrate with the iAqualink control center. They include an LCD control panel and power supply that will be physically located in the Jandy box/panel and fully integrate into the programming both by the PDA and the phone/computer interface. I would get the larger one as well the 1400 series. I have the FusionSoft which has a better warranty and you don't need to and should not use the mineral cartridge.

The large LCD panel on the upper left is the SWG control.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Jim. Not being able to automate it would certainly make a huge difference. :-\

I have the manual, I will read through it and see if I can find anything on automation connections. I had naively/simply assumed all these things were automatable.

Ok, and here are some photos of the current state of affairs with this darn project.

In the plumbing photo below there are 4 pipes not connected with the rest of the bunch. The #4 pipe goes to the drain, so it's the backwash line.

I am trying to figure out what the other 3 disconnected pipes are for. I am thinking those are the pipes for the 3 sheer descents. I took off the duct tape off the top of each of those 3 and there's water in all of them! Should I drain them? How!?


View attachment 71759
View attachment 71760

Interesting that they would put 2 of those together and 1 apart if they are all water features. I would expect them to be together. I would plug in a shop vac to them one at a time and see where they come out in the pool.

 

[tenderfoot]

@poolgate: Thank you for the photo of your jandy control panel! I am trying to figure out how the truclear would integrate with the iaqualink web/phone interface so one can read, through the phone, whatever data it is gathering. I do not see anything about that in the truclear manual: https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0470600.pdf Have you seen that discussed somewhere? Jandy is closed for the holidays so I can't ask their techs.

With regards to the disconnected pipes in the photo, pipes #1, #2 & #3 go to a separate sheer descent each. I verified that today with a hose and labeled each pipe. The photo is a bit misleading, those 3 pipes are right next to each other. Sorry, not the best angle for the photo... The #4 pipe goes to the sewer drain, it is the backwash. I did verify that one too and labeled it now.

 

[kimkats]

Step by step you getting this all figured out! Keep asking questions and working on it one piece at a time and you will get everything ready to finish the pool.

Kim

 

[PoolGate]

@poolgate: Thank you for the photo of your jandy control panel! I am trying to figure out how the truclear would integrate with the iaqualink web/phone interface so one can read, through the phone, whatever data it is gathering. I do not see anything about that in the truclear manual: https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0470600.pdf Have you seen that discussed somewhere? Jandy is closed for the holidays so I can't ask their techs.

With regards to the disconnected pipes in the photo, pipes #1, #2 & #3 go to a separate sheer descent each. I verified that today with a hose and labeled each pipe. The photo is a bit misleading, those 3 pipes are right next to each other. Sorry, not the best angle for the photo... The #4 pipe goes to the sewer drain, it is the backwash. I did verify that one too and labeled it now.

Check page 36 in this manual -> https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/0748-91071/6594.pdf?force=1

The instructions are in the Aqualink manual.

 

[Jimrahbe]

@poolgate: Thank you for the photo of your jandy control panel! I am trying to figure out how the truclear would integrate with the iaqualink web/phone interface so one can read, through the phone, whatever data it is gathering. I do not see anything about that in the truclear manual: https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0470600.pdf Have you seen that discussed somewhere? Jandy is closed for the holidays so I can't ask their techs.

tf,

I suggest that you contact Jandy and makes sure your Truclear will work. It makes sense to me that any Jandy salt system that has a communications bus should be able to be controlled by Jandy automation. But I do not see where the TruClear has a communications bus/connector of any kind. Maybe it is controlled some other way, or maybe you just can't see it, but I would want to know for sure..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[tenderfoot]

Hi,

I spoke with the Jandy technical support today and they confirmed that the Truclear11K cannot be interfaced with the iqualink system, only the aquapure salt system can be interfaced as of today.

He also said that the the type of stuff you can see/change from the iaqualink by interfacing the salt water system are:

- Percentage rate of chlorine production
- Salt levels (is that not the same as the previous one?)
- Salt water system status & error codes

Thanks.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Hi,

I spoke with the Jandy technical support today and they confirmed that the Truclear11K cannot be interfaced with the iqualink system, only the aquapure salt system can be interfaced as of today.

He also said that the the type of stuff you can see/change from the iaqualink by interfacing the salt water system are:

- Percentage rate of chlorine production
- Salt levels (is that not the same as the previous one?)
- Salt water system status & error codes

Thanks.

tf,

With most automation systems you can see and adjust the % of chlorine production... You can see what the cell thinks is the salt level in your pool water.. And you can get system status such "Low Flow", low or high salt warnings, and like for me this time of year... Cold water shut off warnings...

None of this is an absolute must, but the whole purpose of having automation is to be able to sit on your butt inside and control things...

Glad you were able to get feedback from Jandy and sorry your Truclear won't talk with your system...

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

 

[tenderfoot]

Update: I hired a lawyer back in January and 2 months later (that would be last Friday!) that ended up getting the attention of the builder. To the point that I have gotten him to come and do some things. I have most of the equipment I was supposed to get and it is all connected, but the plaster is still missing.

I have been watching over this guy and his crews like a hawk since their return and I am not comfortable with some of the stuff they've done. I am hopeful that if these things are wrong, then the city inspector (after I point these things out to him/her) will fail the inspections to force these guys to do the job right.

Two examples, though there are others:

1. Is the 8 AWG bare copper solid wire that is connected to the rebar of the pool supposed to also be directly connected to the electrical grounding rod of the house? or is it only supposed to be directly connected to the frame of the various pool equipment (pump, controller box, etc) ?
Update: It is NOT supposed to be directly connected to the rod...

2. Is the filter pump supposed to always be energized? Currently the two electrical wires of the pump are connected to the LINE side of a relay together with the two LINE wires coming from the electrical breaker panel. Shouldn't the pump be on the load side of the relay so that it is only energized when the iaqualink computer activates the relay?
Update: It is common to connect it to the LINE side and let the automation turn on/off the suction via RS-485.

 

[kimkats]

So sad but at least a couple of steps forward. Sorry you have to watch over them like that but it is what it is. YEAH for the lawyer getting their attention.

Here is hoping the plaster shows up soon! Has he said anything about it?

Kim

 

[tenderfoot]

Great news!!!!

I am free of the pool builder!!! I can't say anything other than that, but I am now going to hire a separate company to do the plaster. And it looks like it might all be over next week!!!! Woohoo!!!


Ok, so a bunch of more questions for you folks:

1. Is the water temperature sensor supposed to be connected/placed so that it measures the water temperature BEFORE the water enters the DE Filter or AFTER it exits the DE Filter? It seems to me it should be placed to measure the water temp BEFORE it enters the filter and I read that somewhere (probably a manual) but wanted to verify with you because the electrician was going to install it AFTER the DE, but I told him that was wrong and to leave it unconnected for now (no hole drilled).

2. Do I need to have pressure relief valves permanently installed? Or are those only used when the pool sits empty for long periods? I see that there is a spot where those can be put in each of the two "main-drain cans".... I see items like the "Hayward SP1056 Hydrostatic Relief Valve", those are the ones I should install, one per drain? I assume I can install them myself right now because the pool is not plastered yet and the "main-drain cans" are fully accessible right now. Or?​

3. What should I look for when it comes to plaster? I want a color like the one in the current photo showing in the main page of TFP (https://tinyurl.com/yclypgtr​

), so I am thinking of doing StoneScapes Aqua Blue. I will have the plaster company take me to visit a pool they've plastered recently with that same material and color.

4. I am concerned that Aqua Blue plaster is too light and it will be prone to stains from tree leafs and other stuff. There's a couple of pear trees in my neighbors yards that just dump a bunch of stuff around this time of the year. Not to mention my live oaks dumping their leafs all at once in one week... But, I really want blue water and want to avoid green/teal tones in the water. So, not much of a choice?

5. Should the plaster company acid wash the plaster after it is applied? I thought I read somewhere that it was not recommended but I don't know the reasons why. I am also have no clue what the purpose of acid washing the plaster would be nor what the preferred or alternative methods to it are.

6. The pool will be salt water, so after the plaster is fully completed. The pool will be filled with water. I assume it will take a day or 2 to fill it. Then what? Poor a bunch of salt into the system? Or do they start with chlorine? Someone told me some type of acid has to be poored into the water once filled. Anyone have a list of things that have to happen? Is that all part of what I keep hearing being called the "Pool startup" ?

7. What is the "Pool startup" exactly? Is it something that must be done by a pool professional or can I do it? Anyone have a step-by-step guide of what to do? How long does it take? 2 weeks? 3 weeks?

8. Bought the dolphin robot (Triton PS Plus). Can that handle big leafs? How well does it deal with the mandatory raised drain covers in your experience?​

Thanks!!!

​

 

[kimkats]

I am going to address the plaster part. Here is a awesome thread about why NOT to acid wash a pool:

Why Acid Wash New Quartz Pool Finishes?

Here is a thread about the best start up for plaster:

Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup

Here is the NPT (National Pool and Tile) start up card:

http://www.nptpool.com/sites/nptpool.com/files/NPC_SwimmingPoolStart-UpProcedures.pdf

Read over these and let me know which start up you want to try.

Salt should wait for about 30 day for the plaster to cure. During that time you should use liquid chlorine for your FC source

Color of plaster..............have you seen what a pretty color white plaster gives? It is a true blue. It is light but is very easy to clean so.....there is that.

Robot cannot be put in your pool for 30 day. No wheels as they can leave tracks in new plaster. Manual vacuum with a head like this:

Amazon.com : U.S. Pool Supply Weighted Butterfly Pool Vacuum Head with Swivel : Garden Outdoor

-Start up- Do you have your test kit yet? Look in my siggy for the best bang for the buck test kit. If you get a good test kit it will be easy for us to help you start up your own pool! How cool is that??? I have links and such to share when it is time.

I will make you a shopping list for the stuff you will want to have on hand when it comes time to add the water.

I am going to put in a call for a master pool builder for his input on your first set of questions.

We got ya! Keep asking questions and we will work our way through them. If we miss one please re-ask it so we can make sure to cover it.

Kim

 

[bdavis466]

Great news!!!!

I am free of the pool builder!!! I can't say anything other than that, but I am now going to hire a separate company to do the plaster. And it looks like it might all be over next week!!!! Woohoo!!!


Ok, so a bunch of more questions for you folks:

1. Is the water temperature sensor supposed to be connected/placed so that it measures the water temperature BEFORE the water enters the DE Filter or AFTER it exits the DE Filter? It seems to me it should be placed to measure the water temp BEFORE it enters the filter and I read that somewhere (probably a manual) but wanted to verify with you because the electrician was going to install it AFTER the DE, but I told him that was wrong and to leave it unconnected for now (no hole drilled).

2. Do I need to have pressure relief valves permanently installed? Or are those only used when the pool sits empty for long periods? I see that there is a spot where those can be put in each of the two "main-drain cans".... I see items like the "Hayward SP1056 Hydrostatic Relief Valve", those are the ones I should install, one per drain? I assume I can install them myself right now because the pool is not plastered yet and the "main-drain cans" are fully accessible right now. Or?​

3. What should I look for when it comes to plaster? I want a color like the one in the current photo showing in the main page of TFP (https://tinyurl.com/yclypgtr​

), so I am thinking of doing StoneScapes Aqua Blue. I will have the plaster company take me to visit a pool they've plastered recently with that same material and color.

4. I am concerned that Aqua Blue plaster is too light and it will be prone to stains from tree leafs and other stuff. There's a couple of pear trees in my neighbors yards that just dump a bunch of stuff around this time of the year. Not to mention my live oaks dumping their leafs all at once in one week... But, I really want blue water and want to avoid green/teal tones in the water. So, not much of a choice?

5. Should the plaster company acid wash the plaster after it is applied? I thought I read somewhere that it was not recommended but I don't know the reasons why. I am also have no clue what the purpose of acid washing the plaster would be nor what the preferred or alternative methods to it are.

6. The pool will be salt water, so after the plaster is fully completed. The pool will be filled with water. I assume it will take a day or 2 to fill it. Then what? Poor a bunch of salt into the system? Or do they start with chlorine? Someone told me some type of acid has to be poored into the water once filled. Anyone have a list of things that have to happen? Is that all part of what I keep hearing being called the "Pool startup" ?

7. What is the "Pool startup" exactly? Is it something that must be done by a pool professional or can I do it? Anyone have a step-by-step guide of what to do? How long does it take? 2 weeks? 3 weeks?

8. Bought the dolphin robot (Triton PS Plus). Can that handle big leafs? How well does it deal with the mandatory raised drain covers in your experience?​

Thanks!!!

​

1.) The water temperature sensor gets installed after the filter and before the heater (if you have one).

2.) The relief valves are cheap insurance in the event of high ground water. They will need to be installed before filling begins.

3.) Plaster color is personal preference

4.) So long as you are proactive about picking up the leaves and cleaning the pool, I don't see you having staining issues.

5.) Acid washes on new surfaces are done to expose the quartz, pebble and/or glass aggregate in the plaster. If you choose a plain plaster then no acid wash is necessary. With the aggregate finishes there are methods of exposure without using acid but they are not all that common.

6.) Salt should not be added to the water until 30 days after the pool has been filled. Pool school has a great article on startups. You'll need a test kit, several gallons of acid, liquid chlorine and several pounds of cyanuric acid.

7.) There are several startup methods each with their own sets of pros/cons. Check Pool School for info

8.) No idea

Here's the pool school link: Pool School - Start-up New Plaster

 

[tenderfoot]

Folks, thanks for responding so quickly! I am reading through all the links provided and "going to pool school"...

1.) The water temperature sensor gets installed after the filter and before the heater (if you have one).

I do not have a heater. Hmmm... I found the following in the JANDY manual (https://www.jandy.com/~/media/zodiac/global/downloads/0748-91071/6840.pdf) for their controller board:

3.3.1 Water Temperature Sensor ---- 1. Drill 3/8" hole in pipe between filter pump and filter. Insert the sensor and use theclamp provided to hold the sensor in place.Make sure the O-ring is in place.

​

Am I reading that step 1 incorrectly or is it saying the opposite of your response? It makes sense to me that we should be measuring the pool's water temperature as the water is being drawn from the pool and not possibly cooled down (or warmed up?) by going through the filter. But what do I know!?

 

[bdavis466]

The filter would have minimal impact on the water temperature.

Installing it prior to the filter will cause no issue.

 

[tenderfoot]

Thanks Brian... I just got through skimming through the 11 page thread where you helped another member through their bicarbonate startup process... I understood very little of the thread but all I was thinking as I read page after page was: Wow... You're an example in kindness to us all.

 

[tenderfoot]

@KimKats: Oh boy... I now have information overload. hahaha!!! Thank you! I am reading one by one through the threads you linked. I think I need to do the "pool school - water chemistry" first because a lot of that stuff is going WAY over my head.

Hmmm... I have to travel for work quite a bit this month and I am noticing in the "bicarbonate startup thread" that you linked that the startup is a very time consuming process. I am thinking I am going to have to hire someone to do the startup because I don't think anyone here at home will be willing to help while I am away. So... I am in North Dallas... Anyone know who would do the startup following one of the preferred/recommended procedures on here?

Also, all the plaster people I have spoken to are saying they acid wash the plaster. :-( I read the thread created by member onBalance and I like his reasoning for not using acid on the pebble plaster. Anyone know a plaster company in North Dallas that won't use acid wash?

@KimKats: I see you have the TF-100 Test Kit. I assume even if I don't end up doing the startup myself I still need this for ongoing maintenance? BTW, I can't wait for that shopping list! Not that I want to go shopping (I have sunk too much $$ with all the issues, etc...) but I do want to make sure I am prepared and also not buying unnecessary stuff.

 

[PoolGate]

I put my temp sensor before the pump. I don't know why some people like this after the pump as then you get some heat added by the pump giving a false reading. Putting it before gives you the most accurate reading of the actual pool temp. It doesn't really matter however in the grand scheme of things.