Help. First time pool owner in Nassau County, NY.

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If you use a polyquat algaecide at the maximum dose I don't see how it could hurt. But keep up with the chlorine too. Make sure it's polyquat: anything else either has copper (which can cause other problems) or doesn't work.

The filter shouldn't matter in terms of green-ness. Although if it's having problems your water may stay milky blue when all is done. So no point deep cleaning until you're at that point. The filter doesnt kill the green... The chlorine does, then the filter cleans up the dead algae. If it's green, it's still alive.

Yes. The organic material in the deep end is likely eating up chlorine and hiding living algae. You need to scoop or vacuum to waste all of it. Use a leaf rake and just scrape along the bottom until you stop getting anything.

As for draining, for *most* vinyl liner pools, you can drain a substantial amount, usually as long as you leave a foot in the shallow end it's okay... But that depends on your water table. I would check into that before doing a big drain. If you just want to do a full drain that's possible too with some work. It generally requires a big winter cover or tarp.
 
I am no expert, but I have read that draining a pool with a high water table can be very disastrous. Also, if you drain a vinyl pool so that there is less than 2' in depth in any section, the liner may shift and cause wrinkles. So I would only drain after having proper knowledge. You could use "tarp method" to replace water but that will not address any solids unless they are small enough to go out the drain.

2 years ago I did similar as you George, I opened a pool to a house I bought, the pool had not been opened for several years and had 5 pick-up truck loads of leaves and branches in it plus a Grill. After being "pool Schooled" for 2 weeks and spending $1000 and told I would have to bring in a backhoe to dig up concrete to get to my lines, I almost paid to bulldoze it in, but that was very expensive too. Sure glad I did not do it now. I used the TFP method and in a week had clear water. So yes there is hope and you have done a lot of work and covering it up and forgetting about will only make it worse when you decide to open it. I see you are in NY it has not been great swimming weather, so kids are not missing much. Almost a shame to give up now.

I have read through the thread and there are a lot of very perplexing things going on, however, if pool is green then there is live algae or other organics that needs to be killed. I do not think the algaecide will work. If it were blue and just cloudy, then I would possibly think of a problem with filtering (and there may be one), but you still need to kill the organics. When you are scooping with the leaf rake are you getting leaves or just fine dirt?

Also, maybe some pics of your equipment. How many Skimmers do you have? How many returns?
 
View attachment 62860View attachment 62861Results of test from 20 minutesago. FC-23. CC-2. I didn't add any today so it seems to be holding up well. I'll add about 7-8 gallons soon.
My back is not well enough to use the leaf rake but my wife did today and she said she picked up a little of both and some sand.
Ok, I'll keep at it, adding liquid chlorine and vacuuming to waste. I'll avoid using the algaecide for now.
Yes, we're brushing every other day.
Did anyone ever use Stain Free? The bottle shows that it naturally eliminates staining to pool liners? But that's for much later I see now. I attached photos of the filter and pump.
 
How many skimmers do you have? The reason I ask is if you are vacuuming to waste and do not have bottom drain closed off and and any auxiliary Skimmers off you are not getting maximum suction and the water not coming from vacuum but going out waste is not full of all the crud on the bottom. So when vacuuming are you sure the water is just coming from the Vacuum?

In picture of pump the gray valve appears to be feeding the pump, I see a line coming in from the side but is there a second incoming line to that valve plus a line exiting the valve and going to pump?
 
Just for encouragement, Another poster I have been following has a similar problem and was not seeing great results, posted tonight that for the 1st time he an see the bottom in the deep end, and the pool is getting blueish. He started a day before you, and as of this morning was getting discouraged because he was not seeing progress, so hang in there. Hope your back does better soon, that can really hurt and be a real discouragement in itself.
 
I have two skimmers. When I vacuum to waste, I initially keep the gray valve pointing down in 6: position. Both the drain and the skimmers are working at the same time. I thought that in this position, most of the crud exits the system through the drain. We notice that the water exiting the pool is dark when the vacuum removes the crud.
When the water level drops, I turn the gray valve left, to the 9: position and the skimmers are working here only. The suction is even stronger and all the crud is sent to the skimmer basket, using a vac plate also.
Do you recommend that I keep the valve at the 9: position?
Thanks for the encouragement. Do you happen to know the name of the other thread?
My wife purchased Clorox Blue Algaecide and she wants to pour it in the pool this morning. Will it harm or help the SLAM?
 
Here is link to the other thread.

I do not know your system yet, but you need to know exactly what that gray valve does in each position. My guess is you have 2 feed lines to that valve (but may have 3) in picture I can only see 1 for sure coming in from right side of picture, I think I see one coming in from left side also.

When you Vacuum, you usually want to only have the Skimmer you are vacuuming from feeding the pump. That way the crud on bottom is going out and you have full suction going to vacuum and are not sending out relatively clean water. For me to do this I put a large rubber stopper in my other skimmer ( as I do not have a valve to isolate skimmers independently). Only half of the stopper fits into tube so I can easily grab the top and pull out. I have seen people recommend a tennis ball, but you do not want to use something that could get sucked down the pipe. Now that said, there is an occasion where you may want to have some water coming in from other skimmer and that is if the crud on bottom clogs the vacuum. If that happens and skimmer is isolated it will starve the pump of water and can damage the pump. Our solution was to isolate the skimmer we were vacuuming from and have a person sit by pump and filter. If the filter pressure started to drop we figured we were getting a blockage would shut down pump clear blockage and proceed to vacuum. Also I have a section of clear plastic tubing in my waste line, when the vacuum was on a pocket of crude the watcher would yell hold, the vacuumer would freeze on that area and we would keep it there till water ran clear then the vacuumer would slowly scan that area to try to find another spot. My thought is you may be able to do similar by watching the end of waste hose if flow slows down would indicate blockage and can tell how dirty the water is coming out.
 
Also I read advice that Dave (Duraliegh) wrote once to never put anything in your pool unless you know what it is and what it is going to do to your pool. I would not put in Chlorox blue, I agree with Fingaling.

Divin Dave has a quote in his signature "Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most"
 

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The gray valve has 3 positions. 9 o'clock-suction from 2 skimmer pipes only.. 6: both skimmer pipes and drain. 3: drain only. I will vacuum in the 9 position and try to cover the other skimmer pipe during vacuuming. I have read that algae may be hidden in concealed areas of the pool such as behind ladder handles by the pool steps. I have steps in 2 different areas in the deep end of the pool but the handles are in the garage. We brush the steps thoroughly as well as the liner.
 
Very nice. Try brushing up the floor real good... See if you can move some of the stuff around or get it to float up. If your stairs come out easily, take them out. Hose them off, wipe them with bleach. And put them back in near the end of your slam.

Id stick with just the skimmers for now. No point pulling into your main drain.
 
Maybe this will encourage someone that a complete drain isn't the end of the world...

xGRrx
 
Vacuumed to waste with the gray valve at 9. Lots of crud in the skimmer basket. It appears one skimmer has a much stronger suction than the other. I connected the hose to that stronger suction and it worked well. After about 40 minutes, the skimmers weren't working. I cleaned the pump basket but still no dice. I turned the gray valve back to 6 position (skimmers and drain) Backwashed and Rinsed the filter and the suction returned to the skimmers. A temporary clog?
I ordered the Polyquat 60 Algaecide. My wife added 1 40 oz bottle of the Clorox Algaecide. 40 oz treats about 25,000 gallons. I'll add more if necessary when I receive the Polyquat.
Am I missing anything? Aggie are you advising to drain the pool?
 
Just remember. After 5 years of non use you don't have a pool right now: you have a swamp. Literally. Whatever fell in is decomposing down there, it's turning into soil. It's alive. Another few years and you'll have a bog.

If you get this sorted out... And maintain your pool properly, and close it properly... You'll never have to do this again. So take heart. This is a once in a lifetime battle. I opened my first pool after only one year of non-use. It took me three solid weeks of work. The first week was scooping and bleaching. Second was vacuuming and bleaching. By week three I only had to chlorinate once a day.

If you have neighbors in the area with pools, I would check out the water table with them. And see how far you can safely drain. Also, I don't know what water costs where you live. A drain and refill can't hurt: if you can get the water low enough to see to scoop out the garbage.

Now that you're pulling up stuff, I'd wait a few days and decide on the drain. If you can get all of the stuff out, it becomes a breeze. Cleaning water is easy. Cleaning water when there's a layer of decomposing soil on the bottom is next to impossible.

Start posting a daily pic of your water. It's easier to see progress with a visual record. Take it with the steps in the pic and a poll or something so there's a visual comparator.
 
ptxAggie08,
Pool drain is not the end of the world as long as you KNOW what you are doing. An ill advised drain could cost a lot of money on repairs. People just starting out are probably better off not draining as if you miss something (like high water table) it can be disastrous. It took me a week and 15-20 gals of 12.5% to clear a swamp that was worse than most I've seen. But maybe I was the exception. The big idea here is education so you know what will happen when you do it.

George,
It appears you are learning quickly, nice job on the vacuum and understanding what the problem was. I think vacuuming the crud off the bottom will help more than anything. I understand your wife's wanting to fix it fast but she did just introduce copper into pool. If it clears fast I am not sure it will be from polyquat or chlorox algeacide vs getting the crud out and chlorine working, If you read the other thread it went quickly from murky and brown can't see anything, to where he could see bottom in deep end in like a day (he did a lot of work before, but the turning point was dramatic, I had same experience). Hopefully and probably it will not hurt anything to add those algaecides as most people use pool stores to manage pools successfully, not till they get into trouble that people come here. Then they save a lot of money usually. But if you do have problems with metals there are people here to help. Keep learning and hope you get a break soon and it clears. I think you are still going to have a few problems, especially with that clogged return. But as you learn it will be easier. I did have broken laterals, paid I believe $400 to have pool store fix it, right after that I learned I could have fixed it for $65 and 2 hours of work. I take a $167 an hr tax free thank you. Hope your back is feeling better, had a few of those episodes, thought I was going to die. As you can see I made it and I am pain free.
 
I'm in Dix Hills at a high elevation (about 160 ft above sea level) and the pool is gunite, so I didn't have any issues with a complete drain when they redid my plaster. They bored two holes at the deep end just to be safe, but there was no water. Bellmore might be closer to sea level, so I would not drain more than 2/3 of the water, but after refilling with fresh water, you'd at least be able to see the bottom and know what you are vacuuming up. I also strongly recommend a leaf catcher while vacuuming to prevent clogging your lines.

https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-W530-Capacity-Canister-Replacement/dp/B001E2D62W/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1496700446&sr=1-2&keywords=leaf+catcher
 
Thanks Pool Amateur but it appears you're not an amateur anymore. My back is improving each day.For the first time since my injury, I was able to vacuum and brush. I brushed the entire pool and I paid extra attention to the steps in the deep end. Unfortunately, they cannot be removed. I brushed thoroughly and I saw little pieces of algae floating away slowly. This time, there was a lot less debris during the vacuuming. The test results for chlorine are... FC-35.and CC for the first time was CC-0. Is it possible for the algaecide to work this fast? Is there something I can add to counter the extra copper from the algaecide? It was a dark cloudy day so it looks like I had no chlorine loss from yesterday. I only added 3 gallons today. 2 12.5% and 1 bottle of 10%. I will see what happens the next few days before I consider draining.
What's a bit upsetting is I originally stated all the issues including the pool was not used for 5 years and I was advised not to drain until now. on the 3rd week. Thanks for the tip on the leaf catcher, skimmerswimmer. I'll purchase one. I also purchased but have not installed yet, the poolskimusa, that attaches to one of the returns. I'll post a picture tomorrow.
 
With the vacuuming to waste and backwashing, a lot of the copper will likely get diluted. There's nothing you can do about it until your pool is clear at any rate.

In spite of the claims algaecide isn't that great at killing algae. But it can definitely slow the growth of it which lets your chlorine get farther ahead.

I still wouldn't drain. But it's definitely an option, if done right. I've never drained my pool. Understand the mechanics of how to do it safely, but still would not want to risk it.
 
Thanks George, but I still make a lot of those amateur mistakes, most of them out of lack of patience. Very easy to to tell someone else be patient, but when party is planned, and everybody in family can't figure out why "I" can't figure this out, after all everybody else who owns a pool isn't having a problem (not really true or this site would not exist), patience tends to be at an all time low and perspective is something everyone else not in my situation has. I really know very little compared to the experts on this forum. And when I was in trouble they really helped me. Thanks again Chem Geek.

If it were me I would not drain, I do not see the great advantage, and you still have a lot of unknowns. You can only drain to the level 1-2' in the shallow end because you have a liner (we both inherited liners but if I were buying I would probably choose a liner), probably less than half the volume of the pool. yes it will dilute, yes you will have slightly better access to bottom but not much. At 35K gal. I assume you have a deep end. How much easier access are you going to have to that which will be about 6 feet deep? If I did drain I would use tarp method but that would not let you clean the crud out of the bottom at all. At the end if you want to change over water tarp method may not be a bad idea but probably not necessary. My 2 cents on draining.

Your CC=0 probably not a factor of all organics killed or the color would have turned bluish, probably more a factor of sun burning it off. Maybe not because I have not seen the sun for awhile, but expect CC to register again. I agree with Fingaling post he has has some great advice in my opinion. but everything I have read about algaecide tells me it inhibits growth but does not kill algae.

My next issue that concerns me about your thread is the high level of FC. If I read correctly your CYA is only 30. Is that correct or is it higher. FC= 35 is mustard shock level for CYA=60. Mustard shock level to be held for 24 hrs only. so if you can address your CYA level. and if it is out range I think it prudent to lower FC. I am all for over shooting a few ppms so FC does not fall below target SLAM level but not that high.

After that we can start to discuss blocked return.

Glad you are feeling better, hope the back comes along faster than pool and hope you wake up to a blue pool.
 

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