New pool build in LV

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@mas985 thanks for the plumbing diagram :)

@JamesW thanks for the link I must have missed that. I added the surge protector to my list of things to buy.

@mknauss I will run them but probably not more than 4h on an average day. My concern is not the evaporation so much but all the heat loss :(

@ajw22 thanks for posting a picture of you spa. Off topic questions: is that an 8'x8' spa? How do you like your tiered bench? What is the height of your benches?

What is the big benefit of having a dedicated spa jet pump? If I go with the IntelliFloXF which has almost 4HP shouldn't that be more than enough? Is there another benefit of separating it from the main pump?

Again thank you everyone for the super helpful feedback.
 
cactus_LV said:
@ajw22 thanks for posting a picture of you spa. Off topic questions: is that an 8'x8' spa?
Click to expand...

Yes, nice size to stretch out in.

cactus_LV said:
How do you like your tiered bench?
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Love it since it lets different height people choose how much they want to be submerged in the water. And you can move around and find many different positions. I hate spas where the seating is fixed and dictate how you sit.

cactus_LV said:
What is the height of your benches?
Click to expand...

Dunno. The spa is closed and covered and I am 4500 miles away.

I have been asked that before and maybe I can find that post. Otherwise remind me in late April when I open it up.

cactus_LV said:
What is the big benefit of having a dedicated spa jet pump? If I go with the IntelliFloXF which has almost 4HP shouldn't that be more than enough? Is there another benefit of separating it from the main pump?
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Depends how many spa jets you have and how much pressure you want for an excellent spa experience.

A filter and heater gives restrictions to the filter pump and limit the flow and pressure you can get.

A dedicated spa jet pump does not have the filter and heater restrictions. It is a lot easier to get high flows even if the plumbing is poorly designed.

If you have a good plumbing design done with proper head calculations and pipe sizing you can probably get satisfactory performance from a one pump spa system. And your builder and plumber has to not compromise the good design. Builders who understand how to deliver that are rare. So at the end of the day it is easier to use a second pump to ensure you have the spa performance you want.

The first step in designing a spa is to settle on the number of jets, size of jet and how strong you would like the jet to feel. Once this is determined, the following table can be used to determine the proper pipe size and the resulting operating point for the pump.

Spa_Jet_Design.png


Equipment Pad Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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If you need super high flow, there’s always this behemoth.

022035 WhisperFloXF VS Commercial Pool Pump.

208-230/277-460V single-phase; 208-460V three-phase.


This pump can exceed 250 gpm should you need or want that much flow.

www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com


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JamesW said:
If you need super high flow, there’s always this behemoth.

022035 WhisperFloXF VS Commercial Pool Pump.

208-230/277-460V single-phase; 208-460V three-phase.


This pump can exceed 250 gpm should you need or want that much flow.

www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com


View attachment 470295

View attachment 470294

View attachment 470296
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What size suction and return pipes are necessary to support over 250 GPM?

That would give excellent pressure to 10+ spa jets.
 
waterlinetechnologies.com

Pentair - WhisperFloXF VS 5 HP Variable Speed Pump - 022035

Pentair - WhisperFloXF VS 5 HP Variable Speed Pump - 022035
waterlinetechnologies.com waterlinetechnologies.com

www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

Sta-Rite WhisperFloXF 5HP Variable Speed Commercial Pool Pump | 208-230/277-460V 1-Phase / 208-460V 3-Phase | 022035

Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for Sta-Rite WhisperFloXF 5HP Variable Speed Commercial Pool Pump | 208-230/277-460V 1-Phase / 208-460V 3-Phase | 022035
www.poolsupplyunlimited.com www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

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www.tcpoolequipment.com

Pentair 022035 WhispeFloXF 1-Phase/3-Phase 5HP Super-Duty VS Pool Pump | 022035

#022035 Pentair WhisperFloXF Super-Duty 1-Phase / 3-Phase Variable Speed Commercial Pump, 5HP, Energy Efficient 208-230V/277/460V
www.tcpoolequipment.com
 
The 5 hp would be a good choice for large waterfalls and infinity edges.

It all comes down to how much flow you need.

I would always try to meet the maximum flow at less than 2,750 RPM as 3,450 RPM can get really loud and annoying unless the equipment is far away and inside an equipment room.
 
If I need 185GPM for all the water features this behemoth should be perfect with 280GPM max. Thank you so much @JamesW. Now the question is are 2 pumps or 1 better? I assume one less thing to worry about and one less filter.
Is there a guid on how to calculate head loss.

@ajw22 thanks for the spa jet/ GPM table.

If I had the behemoth for the water features another one for the spa jets. Which one should I get for just the pool returns, heater, salt, acid pump and solar?
 
That means I could use the following:
IntelliFlo3 as the main pump
Intelliflo XF for the spa jets
WhisperFloXF VS Commercial for the water features

The next question then is which filter to use for the water features (6' sheer, 3x 1' sheer and 6x deck jets) [165 GPM without considering head loss]? I assume the bubbler doesn't need to run through the filter.
 

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cactus_LV said:
The next question then is which filter to use for the water features (6' sheer, 3x 1' sheer and 6x deck jets) [165 GPM without considering head loss]? I assume the bubbler doesn't need to run through the filter.
Click to expand...

You need a filter that can handle that flow rate. Most water feature filters are small and made for less flow.
 
I'm no expert. Just wanted to pass on that deck jets seem to have big head loss. I need to run our Intelliflo 2.7hp at 3150 rpm with a clean filter to get a 3 foot arc of water for 5 jets. The pump is pretty loud at that speed. Kills the joy a bit. Manually turning down the pool returns helps, too, but defeats the idea of automation.

They were really cool the first summer. By the third even the grandkids are ho-hum. They're another thing to winterize, though in LV that's probably not a problem.

Another data point: When we bought in June '20 they didn't work. A JVA wire was broken and a jet was frost damaged. The previous (second) owners loved the pool but went 5 years not knowing they were there. Must have been broken since before the first owners sold in '14. Clearly a frill.

Gress Pool 1.jpeg
 
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@generessler thanks for mentioning that I didn't put too much thought into the additional ft of head from the jets.

Each of the pentair jets creates a max. of 11 ft. of head. Does that mean if I run 6 it would add 66' of head to the system? or only 11' of head since I would run them in parallel. If it's 66' of head I should probably just remove them from the system.
 
cactus_LV said:
The next question then is which filter to use for the water features (6' sheer, 3x 1' sheer and 6x deck jets) [165 GPM without considering head loss]? I assume the bubbler doesn't need to run through the filter.
Click to expand...
Really, only the sheers require the filter. This is one of the reasons why I suggested isolating the sheers on one of the pumps with a separate filter. Also, you can use a much cheaper pump (Intelliflo3). The other features can be put on the main pump since they do not require a lot of flow rate. Just another option. However, if you want to use all the features while heating up the spa, then all the features will need to be on a separate pump.

cactus_LV said:
@generessler thanks for mentioning that I didn't put too much thought into the additional ft of head from the jets.

Each of the pentair jets creates a max. of 11 ft. of head. Does that mean if I run 6 it would add 66' of head to the system? or only 11' of head since I would run them in parallel. If it's 66' of head I should probably just remove them from the system.
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[EDIT] If each jet is run at the max flow rate for 11' of head and they are in parallel, then the total combined head loss does not change. It is still 11'.
 
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If you have a separate 3/4" line to each jet and each line is 100 feet long and you want 5 GPM per jet, the total head is 11 + 5.7 = 16.7 feet.

If you have a separate 1" line to each jet and each line is 100 feet long and you want 5 GPM per jet, the total head is 11 + 1.7 = 12.7 feet.

The total flow is 5 GPM x 6 jets for a total of 30 GPM at 16.7 feet (using 3/4" lines) or 12.7 feet (using 1" lines).

If you use a separate line for each with a valve, that will allow the best control over the jets to get the best effect.

The MagicStream® Deck Jet II water feature is designed for a maximum flow rate of 5GPM at 11 ft of head (See table below).
Click to expand...

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generessler said:
I need to run our Intelliflo 2.7hp at 3150 rpm with a clean filter to get a 3 foot arc of water for 5 jets.
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A 3 foot arc with 5 jets requires only 15 gpm at 3.9 feet of head plus some for the pipe.

If the pipe adds 3.1 feet of head, the total head is only 7 feet.

The IntelliFlo VSF can do that at 1,125 RPM or lower, so you have a serious problem with your system.

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JamesW said:
A 3 foot arc with 5 jets requires only 15 gpm at 3.9 feet of head plus some for the pipe.
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James -- he made this statement --
generessler said:
Manually turning down the pool returns helps
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So I suspect he needs that pump rpm as he also has the pool returns on along with the jets.
 
mknauss said:
So I suspect he needs that pump rpm as he also has the pool returns on along with the jets.
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Ok, yes, definitely need to turn down the returns.

The problem with using a single pump on different applications with different head loss and different flow rates is that it can be difficult to get the correct flow for each application.
 
mas985 said:
Really, only the sheers require the filter. This is one of the reasons why I suggested isolating the sheers on one of the pumps with a separate filter. Also, you can use a much cheaper pump (Intelliflo3). The other features can be put on the main pump since they do not require a lot of flow rate. Just another option. However, if you want to use all the features while heating up the spa, then all the features will need to be on a separate pump
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I would prefer to run them when I am in the spa that is probably the time when I would see them the most.

JamesW said:
If you use a separate line for each with a valve, that will allow the best control over the jets to get the best effect.
Click to expand...
So you are recommending a separate 1" line to each deck jet. Running a 2" or 2.5" line which then splits into 6 after 100ft wouldn't work as good? Meaning I should have 6 valves instead of 1 :oops:
 

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