Entering TA into PoolMath calculator

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Cherylpool said:
Ok. Thanks everyone for the dose of reality. The pool looks great but I will plan on draining water out a little at a time and get the cya back down. funny thing is, I had it down and that was the only time I saw some hints of green. Anyway, to hit my pool at FC 7 would take at least two gallons of bleach a day which is about 6.50 a gallon at wallmart now. Any other places to buy and better percentages that you suggest.
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The average pool uses 2-4 ppm of fc daily - after your initial dose to reach target fc range for your cya of 90 (10-12ppm fc)
You will just be maintaining that daily by replenishing what is lost- not going from 2 to 10ppm daily. That would be around a gallon of 10% liquid chlorine daily give or take - u have a large pool.
E47D44A3-1E88-415D-B533-20A920C3AC3D.png
If u are losing more than 4-5 ppm/ daily you should do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to rule out an algae problem. You should probably do an oclt anyway since u have been below minimum for your cya for some time. If algae is confirmed you will need to do the SLAM Process to eradicate it- this isn’t practical w/ a cya of 90 so a decent water exchange will need to occur sooner rather than later.
Here’s some info on that 👇

Draining - Further Reading

www.google.com www.google.com


If daily dosing is an issue, you may want to look into a saltwater chlorine generator to produce chlorine for u & feed your pool daily. You would need a unit rated for 60k gallons, as that is the largest anyone makes.
 
Mdragger88 said:
The average pool uses 2-4 ppm of fc daily - after your initial dose to reach target fc range for your cya of 90 (10-12ppm fc)
You will just be maintaining that daily by replenishing what is lost- not going from 2 to 10ppm daily. That would be around a gallon of 10% liquid chlorine daily give or take - u have a large pool.
View attachment 432482
If u are losing more than 4-5 ppm/ daily you should do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to rule out an algae problem. You should probably do an oclt anyway since u have been below minimum for your cya for some time. If algae is confirmed you will need to do the SLAM Process to eradicate it- this isn’t practical w/ a cya of 90 so a decent water exchange will need to occur sooner rather than later.
Here’s some info on that 👇

Draining - Further Reading

www.google.com www.google.com


If daily dosing is an issue, you may want to look into a saltwater chlorine generator to produce chlorine for u & feed your pool daily. You would need a unit rated for 60k gallons, as that is the largest anyone makes.
Click to expand...
Thanks again. I was keeping it at 2.5 with about 6 to 8 cups of bleach a day applied in the evening. The drop would usually be to about 1.25 in the afternoon. I will test twice a day and get it figured out. Much appreciate. Well I am afraid of my pool now but it is pretty to look at.
I will work getting that cya back down.
 
Cherylpool said:
Thanks again. I was keeping it at 2.5 with about 6 to 8 cups of bleach a day applied in the evening. The drop would usually be to about 1.25 in the afternoon. I will test twice a day and get it figured out. Much appreciate. Well I am afraid of my pool now but it is pretty to look at.
I will work getting that cya back down.
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Just had to add, I guess what amazes me most about pool chemistry is all the different opinions. My pool guy says it isn't unusual for people to have a cya of 200 and is only a problem if it gets higher. Leslie's says that the chlorine should be kept between 1-4. Really, I could go on and on and on. But after teasing it all out, I came to the conclusion that your approach here makes the most sense. I am glad I asked for help, haha, I actually thought I had it all figured out.
 
Cherylpool said:
Well I am afraid of my pool now but it is pretty to look at.
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Cheryl,
Don’t be afraid-
at each level of cya on the chart each corresponding necessary fc level to remain sanitary has equal potency- this means they are all no more potent/harsh than your drinking/bathing water that has 2-3 ppm of fc & no cya. Heck, my local water often has 4ppm!
Often times the things that people blame on “high” chlorine (harsh feel, smell, burning eyes etc) have more to do with other imbalances & usually a fc level that is too low. Excess Combined chloromines (cc’s) & improper ph are generally the culprits. A properly balanced pool
www.troublefreepool.com

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
with adequate fc levels won’t have any of these. I swear your skin won’t melt off 🤣
My kids, our guests, & I have been swimming in 10ppm fc All day & do so often. My cya is 80. All I heard was how great the water felt & looked. My son always keeps his eyes open under water. He has commented many times how he can’t do that in some of his friend’s pools.
 
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Cherylpool said:
real TA
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TA stands for Total Alkalinity. Total means that it includes all types of Alkalinity. Once you subtract one type of Alkalinity from it, it's no longer total.

CYA-Alkalinity is real Alkalinity, that's why it shows in the TA test, it adds to the buffering capability of the water.

When you subtract CYA-Alkalinity (and Borate-Alkalinity should borates be in the water) you get Carbonate-Alkalinity which gets used as a measure for the Carbonate content (CO3-) by formulas to calculate the CSI.

You can either calculate Carbonate-Alkalinity first and then use it in a formula that requires Carbonate-Alkalinity as an input to calculate CSI. But then it should be called what it is: Carbonate Alkalinity. Unfortunately, pool stores tend to call it corrected Total Alkalinity, which is wrong and obviously confusing customers. They also make an extra buck out of it by telling customers that their perfectly fine TA is too low and then selling them overpriced baking soda, which they like to call Alkalinity increaser.

The better way to deal with this correction is to just use a CSI-formula that subtracts CYA- and Borate-Alkalinity internally, and keep TA total.
 
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Mdragger88 said:
Cheryl,
Don’t be afraid-
at each level of cya on the chart each corresponding necessary fc level to remain sanitary has equal potency- this means they are all no more potent/harsh than your drinking/bathing water that has 2-3 ppm of fc & no cya. Heck, my local water often has 4ppm!
Often times the things that people blame on “high” chlorine (harsh feel, smell, burning eyes etc) have more to do with other imbalances & usually a fc level that is too low. Excess Combined chloromines (cc’s) & improper ph are generally the culprits. A properly balanced pool
www.troublefreepool.com

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
with adequate fc levels won’t have any of these. I swear your skin won’t melt off 🤣
My kids, our guests, & I have been swimming in 10ppm fc All day & do so often. My cya is 80. All I heard was how great the water felt & looked. My son always keeps his eyes open under water. He has commented many times how he can’t do that in some of his friend’s pools.
Click to expand...
"with adequate fc levels won’t have any of these. I swear your skin won’t melt off" HaHa well that is what I am afraid of. Added 2 gallons of bleach last night and at 11 am the FC was 6.5. The water looked and felt good so I will try to get over it. I will start with my big toe. Thanks for the hand holding
 
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mgtfp said:
TA stands for Total Alkalinity. Total means that it includes all types of Alkalinity. Once you subtract one type of Alkalinity from it, it's no longer total.

CYA-Alkalinity is real Alkalinity, that's why it shows in the TA test, it adds to the buffering capability of the water.

When you subtract CYA-Alkalinity (and Borate-Alkalinity should borates be in the water) you get Carbonate-Alkalinity which gets used as a measure for the Carbonate content (CO3-) by formulas to calculate the CSI.

You can either calculate Carbonate-Alkalinity first and then use it in a formula that requires Carbonate-Alkalinity as an input to calculate CSI. But then it should be called what it is: Carbonate Alkalinity. Unfortunately, pool stores tend to call it corrected Total Alkalinity, which is wrong and obviously confusing customers. They also make an extra buck out of it by telling customers that their perfectly fine TA is too low and then selling them overpriced baking soda, which they like to call Alkalinity increaser.

The better way to deal with this correction is to just use a CSI-formula that subtracts CYA- and Borate-Alkalinity internally, and keep TA total.
Click to expand...
OK Well this forum recommends the taylor test kit and I am just going by what it says. It takes awhile to sort it all out. I am fine with using pool math the way it is designed. Just confusing with the conflicting information for a newbie. My Brain has exploded. I am in the process of putting it back together.
 
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Cherylpool said:
OK Well this forum recommends the taylor test kit and I am just going by what it says. It takes awhile to sort it all out. I am fine with using pool math the way it is designed. Just confusing with the conflicting information for a newbie. My Brain has exploded. I am in the process of putting it back together.
Click to expand...
We do things differently here from pretty much every other pool methodology. But our way means you know what is in your pool and accurate levels, adding not-too-expensive chemicals only, and you can feel secure that your pool is safe. :)
 
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Cherylpool said:
"with adequate fc levels won’t have any of these. I swear your skin won’t melt off" HaHa well that is what I am afraid of. Added 2 gallons of bleach last night and at 11 am the FC was 6.5. The water looked and felt good so I will try to get over it. I will start with my big toe. Thanks for the hand holding
Click to expand...
If it makes you feel any better, I've been maintaining my pool at 12-19ppm of FC since my CYA is sky high at 160. Currently in the process of doing a water exchange because I'm tired of using nearly a gallon of bleach per day for my 12k gallon pool. It would also be nice to get an accurate pH test one of these days.

I also still have all of my skin, and it doesn't look like it's boiling... yet.
 
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When I test my chlorine, I always add CL to the top of the Pool Math recommended range, +2. For example, my FC range for my CYA is 5-8 ppm. So, I make sure my addition brings me up to 10 ppm. If life gets in the way, after two days, I'm still always above 5 ppm, usually 6 or 6.5.

No one who swims in our pool believes me when I tell them I'm running chlorine in my pool. They can't feel it, smell it, etc. None of our family has green hair or melting skin. And when I add, "Oh, and some 20 Mule Team Borax and some A&H Baking soda, too!" they just stare at me like I have two heads. I lastly point out that our pool also has no algae in it; nor algaecides, clarifiers, flocculants, nor any other of the myriad of chemical potions available from the pool store.

Just last week, I had a local HVAC company out to see why our heat pump wouldn't fire up, although it was calling for heat. Turned out to be a bad switch. The service tech was amazed at our pool water. He said they have been battling algae for weeks and are discouraged and going broke buying chemicals. When I told him about TFP, he wrote it down in his pocket notebook. Yesterday afternoon he brought his wife over to see our pool and hear my story. He called last night with some questions; his wife wants their pool converted ASAP, and he wondered if I would help guide him if he ran into problems. I quickly explained I was not an expert, but I know where to find them, ;). We are going to get it started this weekend. 🙂
 
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zimdogg said:
It would also be nice to get an accurate pH test one of these days.
Click to expand...

If your water exchange is going to take longer, you could invest in an electronic pH-Meter, they are unaffected by high FC levels. If calibrated regularly and stored properly (in storage solution), they are pretty good.
 
mgtfp said:
If your water exchange is going to take longer, you could invest in an electronic pH-Meter, they are unaffected by high FC levels. If calibrated regularly and stored properly (in storage solution), they are pretty good.
Click to expand...
It should be finishing up by the time I head home from work today. Started at 6pm yesterday evening and I calculated I'd need to exchange for 22 hours, so by the time I get home it will have been exchanging for about 23.5 hours. Might give me even lower CYA that I'm hoping for.

When I do get done with this, can I immediately test the CYA or do I need to run the pump for a bit to get everything circulating?
 
I would circulate for an hour and then test to get a first idea how successful your exchange was. But before adding anything irreversible like CYA or Calcium increaser, I'd keep circulating a bit longer and retest after 24 hours.
 
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zimdogg said:
If it makes you feel any better, I've been maintaining my pool at 12-19ppm of FC since my CYA is sky high at 160. Currently in the process of doing a water exchange because I'm tired of using nearly a gallon of bleach per day for my 12k gallon pool. It would also be nice to get an accurate pH test one of these days.

I also still have all of my skin, and it doesn't look like it's boiling... yet.
Click to expand...
I have struggled with accurately reading the PH test. I recently purchased the Apera PH tester and getting accurate readings. I also do the taylor test at the same time to learn to read the color. So far I have consistently thought it was .2 lower. I will think it is 7.8 and Apera gives me an 8 reading. Cost about $90 but worth it. Take a cold shower to close your pores before going in!
 
ghall6292 said:
When I test my chlorine, I always add CL to the top of the Pool Math recommended range, +2. For example, my FC range for my CYA is 5-8 ppm. So, I make sure my addition brings me up to 10 ppm. If life gets in the way, after two days, I'm still always above 5 ppm, usually 6 or 6.5.

No one who swims in our pool believes me when I tell them I'm running chlorine in my pool. They can't feel it, smell it, etc. None of our family has green hair or melting skin. And when I add, "Oh, and some 20 Mule Team Borax and some A&H Baking soda, too!" they just stare at me like I have two heads. I lastly point out that our pool also has no algae in it; nor algaecides, clarifiers, flocculants, nor any other of the myriad of chemical potions available from the pool store.

Just last week, I had a local HVAC company out to see why our heat pump wouldn't fire up, although it was calling for heat. Turned out to be a bad switch. The service tech was amazed at our pool water. He said they have been battling algae for weeks and are discouraged and going broke buying chemicals. When I told him about TFP, he wrote it down in his pocket notebook. Yesterday afternoon he brought his wife over to see our pool and hear my story. He called last night with some questions; his wife wants their pool converted ASAP, and he wondered if I would help guide him if he ran into problems. I quickly explained I was not an expert, but I know where to find them, ;). We are going to get it started this weekend. 🙂
Click to expand...
Awesome. This site has such great energy. Appreciate all the help!
 
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Cherylpool said:
Awesome. This site has such great energy. Appreciate all the help!
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Hi Cheryl.

My pool is very similar to yours. Before I found this site last June, I was using trichlor tablets and keeping my FC at 3. My pH would rise constantly and I found myself adding pH up daily which would cloud my water. I would also shock the pool with 3 pounds of cal-hypo every Sunday. I found this web site when trying to figure out why the pH up was clouding my water.

It was quite a revelation when I discovered this site and realized that I was doing everything wrong. I bought a Taylor test kit and soon discovered that my CYA was over 100 and that I was underchlorinating. I immediately stopped using trichlor tablets and started to use liquid chlorine. I had to keep the FC pretty high and would backwash often and replace water to try and get my CYA level down.

The bright side of a high CYA level is that you don’t burn off the chlorine so quickly. By the end of last summer my CYA was down to about 60. I was typically adding about 1/2 gallon of chlorine per day to keep my FC at the desired level.

Fast forward to this season and I opened the pool to find that it was green. I shocked my way out of that situation, got rid of the algae, and found that my CYA was lower than 30. I was very happy about that (it was a day I was dreaming of since last summer) until I found out how quickly the pool burned off the chlorine. I was adding more than a gallon per day, so I decided to bring the CYA up to 50. We’ve been having some very hot and extremely sunny weather, so I was still adding about 5 gallons per week.

Last week I decided to add about 6 trichlor tablets into the feeder to try and bring up the CYA to about 60. I have only had to add 3 gallons of liquid chlorine this week, which has been a joy, due to the tablets adding some additional chlorine. The tablets haven’t totally dissolved yet and I haven’t had the dreaded drop in pH. I think the liquid chlorine raises the pH a bit and is balancing out with the trichlor.

I guess the moral of my story is that with a 36,000 gallon pool and hot, sunny weather, you’re going to find that a CYA of about 60 is going to be more manageable when using liquid chlorine.
 
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Cherylpool said:
I have struggled with accurately reading the PH test. I recently purchased the Apera PH tester and getting accurate readings. I also do the taylor test at the same time to learn to read the color. So far I have consistently thought it was .2 lower. I will think it is 7.8 and Apera gives me an 8 reading. Cost about $90 but worth it. Take a cold shower to close your pores before going in!
Click to expand...
For the ph test- try putting it against a white background- i use my white cabinets w/ the bright lights on if indoors
& when im outside I use the open browser on my phone or my hubby’s white truck.
Many use the white card that comes in the kit.
 
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@Cherylpool everyone will think you are completely insane for, omg, testing your water with chemistry set (only aliens and cults measure chemical concentrations with chemistry sets). Then, they will think you’ve gone off the deep end when you, omg, pour BLEACH into your pool. The fact that you, omg, shun advice from the Almighty Pool Store makes you certifiable.

But, once you get your pool TFP’d, you’ll begin noticing how many of the other pools that you may have been swimming in are nasssssty. That’s what happened to me. I have a buddy with crystal clear water…but when you look closely, there’s green stuff growing in the fountain returns and all other kind of nooks and crannies.

Drink the kool-aid. Join the cult. Most people don’t TPF. And most pools are gross. I’m a pool snob now. I don’t drink cheap wine, and I don’t swim in gross pools. :)
 
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Oh yea, my cya is 60. I add chlorine every night to get to 2ppm above my target range, for me that’s 11. I swim in 11 FC all the time, and it is glorious. Here in Houston I am losing upwards of 4.5 FC per day depending on cloud cover. [doing rain dance now]
 
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Cherylpool said:
My pool guy says it isn't unusual for people to have a cya of 200
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I think he meant to say, for HIS customers, it is not unusual to have a CYA of 200. If he is managing all these pools with pucks, of course they all have sky high CYA. That number is not only insane, but completely unmanageable for chlorine, and just image what SLAM levels would need to be?!?!? Don't even want to look at that chart.

Cherylpool said:
I recently purchased the Apera PH tester and getting accurate readings.
Click to expand...
I love my PH tester. I frequently calibrate it and store it properly and love the ease of this test. Even if the result is .2 off, I could be that far off in the comparison block anyway, and for me, I can't see checking my PH any other way. I already spent hundreds on my testing equipment and supplies, another $90 is so worth it.

Love to see you embracing all this. It is "hard" in the beginning, getting all the other noise out of your head from all the other opinions, but thousands of us have realized what you have, on to a TFP!
 
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