Results two years and two court dates later

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Jimrahbe said:
Because the idiot that did your plumbing made it so that the more you turn on your main drain, the less water you will get from your shallow skimmer.
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Are you referring to the plumbing at the pad, or under the deck? If it's at the pad, what would be the solution? For the first time in this build, I feel I am at a point of having some financial leverage to get things resolved prior to any further payments. I have a usable pool and can outlast the builder. As for the plumber who left saying he would come back and label, I told him to disregard and that for him to just keep doing what he was doing and he would go far in life,..not!

And yes, having efficient skimmers is more important than what it was doing previously. When things settle down from the pollen, etc. may can adjust between.
Turbo1Ton said:
I have no idea how they are going to mount the actuator on the pool/spa return valve. That valve should have been mounted facing the front, same as the feature valves, and the blower valve (not sure why you need a valve for your air blower) should have been rotated 90 degrees so they don't hit.
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The valve on the blower pipe was just stuck on top by the plumber to keep water from overflowing out of the pipe. It is not glued and can be pulled off. Will that resolve the actuator fitting on? I do have the actuators here and can see if it will go on there. Otherwise, that will be another thing that I will require them resolve before any more money is paid out. Would prefer for just everything to have gone smoothly but it does feel good for once not being upside down with the builder.
 
The valve on the blower pipe is not the issue. The issue is fitting the actuator in underneath that return pipe to your water features. You should be able to hold the actuator up to the valve and see if it will fit between there. I'm guessing if it does it will be very close.

--Jeff
 
K,

What you have will work and I'm sure many pools are plumbed like yours.

But the plumbing you have does have some issues that could be fixed.

The main drain line should have its own valve so that you can regulate the main drain flow (or shut it off, if wanted) without effecting the shallow skimmer.

The Spa Spillover should have a make-up line and valve to control the flow rather than using the Return valve for this function.

The main problem is that everything is brought up through the concrete. That is an absolute no-no for me, as things are now "almost" unrepairable unless you destroy part of the deck.

If you plan to have automation, then you can use the automation to control the spa spillover, so you don't have to keep your Return Valve off-set to work. I too am not sure that an actuator will fit on your Return valve. If not, then that would have to be fixed. It may fit just fine, but I can't tell for sure.

Not sure about your spa drain down, but here is how to troubleshoot. Turn off the pump and let it drain down until it stops. If it stops just under the spa jets, then the check valve is not working. If it drains down way below the jets and stops just below the light than the light conduit is bad. If it drains down to way below the lights, then most likely the "Intake" valve is leaking or not fully closing off the spa line.


Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
The main drain line should have its own valve so that you can regulate the main drain flow (or shut it off, if wanted) without effecting the shallow skimmer.

The Spa Spillover should have a make-up line and valve to control the flow rather than using the Return valve for this function.
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I can have them add in a drain shutoff. For me, given the amount of money and time I have dedicated to this build, things not working properly are unacceptable. If the builder doesn't want to correct, I will deduct it from his remaining funds.
Jimrahbe said:
If it stops just under the spa jets
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I have never waited to see how far it would drop because of fear that the pebble finish could be damaged or have it's life shortened. Overnight, it would drop down maybe 1-1/2". Rather than have tile strips underneath where the weir is at, they plastered up to the bottom of the spillway stone. So if the water drops more than 3/4-1", the plaster begins to get exposed. It is shutoff tonight so I will see how low it gets in the morning.

For the make-up line, where would that be installed? Are there multiple satisfactory options? I am assuming that with that method, there would be a valve to allow a more precise flow of water over the large one presently there. What is the specific purpose of the make-up line? Is it just to make sure the spa stays full when not active?

I will have automation. There is an OmniPL yet to be installed, They only sent 2 actuators which are in the pics below.

Turbo1Ton said:
You should be able to hold the actuator up to the valve and see if it will fit between there.
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The actuator will not fit vertically without hitting the lower skimmer pipe. The manual shows various mounting configurations so it appears (unless I'm missing something) that it would have to be mounted in a "B" or "C" rotation.

IMG_1664.jpgIMG_1665.jpgIMG_1663.jpgIMG_1662.jpg
 
K,

If you are going to have automation, then you don't need a make-up line. You use the "spillway" function on the automation. Your two actuators are for your Intake and Return valves, which are used to switch between the pool mode and spa mode, plus they are used for the Spillway mode, so you will not need any additional actuators..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I wasn't thinking about rotating the actuator. I didn't know if that was possible with the hayward actuators. Looks like it should work ok.

--Jeff
 
Jimrahbe said:
Ok.. Hit me with any questions.
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You might be sorry you offered but here goes:)

Can you clarify which valves should have been two way instead of the three way?

Besides having a separate main-drain shutoff and the make-up line, what things should be done differently or could be done to improve the function of the system?

Regarding the spa losing water, do you think that the addition of a check valve could make any difference? I am assuming that if the bottom drain valve is turned off then it would not in this case but just want to be clear. The spa lost about an inch of water over a 12 hour period last night. Any futher would expose the pebble finish so I topped it off.

Last night I turned the pump down to about 1900 RPM. This morning, the deep skimmer (closest to the pump) was more active than the shallow skimmer (had almost no action. I also observed that the pump glass had lots of bubbles but water still flowing. It seem like after the pump is slowed, that the shallow skimmer becomes less and less active over time as the bubbles seem to increase. Is this normal? Any ideas?

I would like to know what may be potential issues or things that could improve the system so i can present to the builder prior to closing.

Thank you
 
K,

Water tends to take the path of least resistance. My guess is that your "active" skimmer is close to the equipment pad and your less active one is much farther away... There is no absolute need to make the suction at the two skimmers match. But, this is just another reason that individual valves work better. To make the suction at the skimmers match, you set the valve controlling the far skimmers wide open. And then you adjust the valve to the near skimmer so that you slowly reduce the suction. As you reduce the suction of the near skimmer, you will automatically increase the suction at the far skimmer. There is no magic number here, you just have to play with the valve and do the best you can to make the two skimmers match. I like to stick my hand in the suction line at the bottom of each skimmer and get a "feel" for how much suction there is.. I keep going back and forth between the two skimmers until it feels they both have about the same amount of suction.

The Intake and Return valves have to be 3-way valves as they switch between the Pool mode and Spa mode. All the other valves should be 2-way valves. I am talking about what I would do if were plumbing a new pool. I am not sure it would be worth the effort to replumb what you have since all your plumbing is coming up through the decking.

As a test, you can shut the pump off and then set the Return valve (the one above the check valve) so that the handle points straight up. This will shut off the path to the spa through the check valve. "If" the check valve is bad, then the water in the spa should not drain because you have the Return valve closed. If the spa continues to drain with the Return valve to the spa closed, then it is not a check valve problem. It could be a leaking Intake valve or could be the plumbing in the spa is leaking, which would not shock me with all the issues you have been having.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
the plumbing in the spa is leaking
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The pipes were originally at about 40 pounds for many many months. After they routed the pipes to where the pad is at, they only pressurized to 20 pounds but it was holding until they cut for the fittings. The spa may be leaking around the spillway rock. I have not let it sit to find out if it would go below the spillway because I did not want to have any damage to the plaster. Would it hurt the plaster to have it exposed for a half a day or so? I could see if it goes any further than the spillway which would at least eliminate the problem being around the spillway.

This morning with the pump running low, the upper skimmer seemed to be working fine. Yesterday there was a coating of pollen on the surface of the water so maybe there was more action taking place than it appeared?

Another question, they installed the overflow drain positioned where only about 1-1/2" of the tile is below the waterline when the pool is full. Seems like they would have raised it up to the mid point on the tile. What is the standard or is there one? Pic below,... thanks,

IMG_1673.jpg
 

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klanel said:
Another question, they installed the overflow drain positioned where only about 1-1/2" of the tile is below the waterline when the pool is full. Seems like they would have raised it up to the mid point on the tile.
What is the standard or is there one? Pic below,... thanks,
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Water level should be able to go to the midpoint to 2/3 the way up the skimmer throat before it starts overflowing down the drain.
 
klanel said:
I know the skimmers work better if the water isn't too high.
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That is correct. But you don't want to dump water from every rain storm and then need to add water to replace evaporation.

The overflow drain is there to protect the pool from big storms and an overflow. Not to keep the water level at the perfect position for the skimmer. If you do that you will waste a lot of water between overflows and evaporation refills.
 
ajw22 said:
Water level should be able to go to the midpoint to 2/3 the way up the skimmer throat before it starts overflowing down the drain.
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Allen,

The water level is currently 2-1/2" from the bottom of the skimmer throat and it's about 3/8" below the overflow drain. So it would be at or slightly below the midpoint at the point of overflowing.
 
ajw22 said:
What is the height of your skimmer throat?
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I think it's 6" (maybe a Pentair/Sta rite u-3?)



tommelton said:
Here is mine - no water yet of course:
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I just saw that. Didn't see or missed a notification. Your's seems like the proper way which would put the overflow at mid level. For them to correct now, would require the coping to be removed there. Just another sign of poorly thought out work with no builder here to oversee when it could have been resolved easily.
kimkats said:
Not too expensive and should do the trick.
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I had already thought about either blocking the lower portion or fabricating a stainless replacement plate.

PS: I think the builder visits this forum so maybe he didn't feel it necessary to come out here and look since he can see/hear about it from the comfort of his home:)
 
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