Jim, sorry to resurrect and old thread, but I am looking at the two pumps also and I came across this reply. I am wondering if you can point me to more information on educating myself on "turnovers" and how they are a myth. I was just reading the other day about turning the pool over 3x a day, but if that is false, I would love to read the right methodology.
Are Turnovers a myth? If so, why?
- Thread starter Bvill16
- Start date
Well, it's your pool with your yards surroundings. 2 blocks away or even next door there may be a world of difference. Filtering removes the crud that falls in the pool. Even in the same yard, that will be wildly different throughout the season. You'll need more filtering when the pollen is falling in the spring and more in the fall. You might need next to no filtering in the mid season. Or you could live in the desert and have a constant supply of dirt/sand blowing 24/7. Or near a farm. Or in the woods with only leaves and only sometimes.
So, how can *they* possibly know how much filtering you will need ? The 3X turnover blanket statement is just rubbish.
Proper sanitizing and chemistry keeps the water healthy. All the filter does is filter.
very fair argument, and I am in no way saying anyone was wrong, so I hope my comment was not misinterpreted.
However, I also have an SWG, so wouldn't that also determine "turnover"?
You respectfully asked for a better viewpoint. No misinterpretations at all. Please ask for clarification anytime.
Nope. You need to produce XX FC per day to replenish what is lost to the sun and bather load. The SWG needs to run as long as it needs to do that, based upon its size/output. No more, no less. Err on the side of slightly more and you'll never have a problem.
The pool also needs to be mixed well. Twice a day for 20 mins with good circulation is enough for most. But its already well covered by the filtering and/or SWG runtimes.
Also, I believe the whole 3X 'myth' is the industry just covering its bases. Whether you needed .2x (point 2), or 2.85 X, if they pick a number high enough they will be right acrosss the land. Then promptly pat themselves on the back for being so right. But they don't pay your electric bill either. So. 
B,
When we say turnovers are a myth, we are not saying you can't decide how long to run your pump based on "facts". Just not on a myth.
You need to run your pump for a reason, and all we are saying is that "turnovers" are not a reason by itself.
If you have a SWCG, then you need to run the amount of time it takes to generate the amount of chlorine your pool needs. That is a real reason to run the pump. I might only have to run my pump 6 hours, because I have a large SWCG and a small pool, and you might have to run your pump for 18 hours, because you have a large pool with a small SWCG. (Just an example..) The point being that we believe in running the pump to achieve some result, and not just to meet some magical number that someone pulled out of their rear.
The main reasons to run your pump are:
1. To generate chlorine if you have a SWCG or tab feeder.
2. To skim your pool.
3. To mix chemicals if you manually add them.
I personally run my IntelliFlo 24/7, most of the time at 1200 RPM. I have no idea if that is the .1 turnovers or a million turnovers, I don't care because that is not why I run my pump. I personally like making a little chlorine all the time and I like skimming all the time.
Thanks,
Jim R.
When we say turnovers are a myth, we are not saying you can't decide how long to run your pump based on "facts". Just not on a myth.
You need to run your pump for a reason, and all we are saying is that "turnovers" are not a reason by itself.
If you have a SWCG, then you need to run the amount of time it takes to generate the amount of chlorine your pool needs. That is a real reason to run the pump. I might only have to run my pump 6 hours, because I have a large SWCG and a small pool, and you might have to run your pump for 18 hours, because you have a large pool with a small SWCG. (Just an example..) The point being that we believe in running the pump to achieve some result, and not just to meet some magical number that someone pulled out of their rear.
The main reasons to run your pump are:
1. To generate chlorine if you have a SWCG or tab feeder.
2. To skim your pool.
3. To mix chemicals if you manually add them.
I personally run my IntelliFlo 24/7, most of the time at 1200 RPM. I have no idea if that is the .1 turnovers or a million turnovers, I don't care because that is not why I run my pump. I personally like making a little chlorine all the time and I like skimming all the time.
Thanks,
Jim R.
I will add there is a fourth reason to run the pump if you have a heat pump.
I totally agree..
There are many other reasons to run your pump, but you run your heat pump to heat your pool to a specific temperature, which makes sense, not to meet some turnover goal, which makes no sense.
Thanks,
Jim R.
This is great information (as always) and one of the reasons I stalk this site!
@Jimrahbe i actually found some of your other posts last night when searching “turnover”
I do have one question for all of you, which I don’t believe was answered in any post I found in the search.
Q: is the same amount of FC produced by a pump running at 1500 rpm vs a pump running at 3000 rpm. Said another way, is there a direct relationship between chlorine output and rpms?
To put this into context, I currently have the attached pump and last summer I was running it 10-12 hours a day with my SWG set to 80%. I have about 33k gallons and the Circupool 60 SWG. I probably could have ran this at 70% but was using this summer as trial and error and I was erring on the side of caution.
@Jimrahbe i actually found some of your other posts last night when searching “turnover”
I do have one question for all of you, which I don’t believe was answered in any post I found in the search.
Q: is the same amount of FC produced by a pump running at 1500 rpm vs a pump running at 3000 rpm. Said another way, is there a direct relationship between chlorine output and rpms?
To put this into context, I currently have the attached pump and last summer I was running it 10-12 hours a day with my SWG set to 80%. I have about 33k gallons and the Circupool 60 SWG. I probably could have ran this at 70% but was using this summer as trial and error and I was erring on the side of caution.
Attachments
- May 3, 2014
- 62,857
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Fair point and yes I was assuming 1500 was significant flow for the SWG.
So in my example above, then theoretically I could run my pump for more hours at a lower rpm and produce more chlorine (then my current single speed for 10 hours). Very interesting. I think I’ll be upgrading this old hog this year.
As chlorine reacts with (and gets used up by) pretty much everything that gets into the pool, the better the water is filtered the longer the chlorine lasts as there is little to react with. That is one reason so many here run their VSP for 24/7, they can add chlorine and get very clean water. Chlorine's primary purpose is as a sanitizer. Then its an algistat, or algicide if you get a bloom. The less it reacts with the more it is able to protect the swimmers. When I first started in this business, we were encouraged to have 1 turnover a day on a residential pool and 3 on a commercial (hotel, apartment, etc.) pool. The commercial requirements are still in effect, but for residential pools, especially with VSP's, its filter as much as needed to keep the pool clean and chemically treated. As has been said, pools across the street from one another can have completely different filtration needs. I used to service two pools like that and they were very different from each other in chemical and filtration requirements.
Are you suggesting that organic matter in the filter does not react with the chlorinated water that is constantly running through the filter?
Great timing for me to find this thread as I just switched to swcg and thought I had to up my runtime. I have a single-speed pump and a 4x oversized swcg (for the $60 difference in price I thought why not), at 100% output I can easily get my daily chlorine needs in under 2.5 hours.
My pool is screen enclosed, so skimming is not a concern. I was initially going to dial to 50% and set the runtime for 6 hours (9-11, 2-4, 7-9), however after reading this thread it seems I would be just wasting electricity on the pump.
I think I will go to a 4 hour run (9-10, 2-4, 8-9) so I get the most of my chlorine generation in the middle of the sun and some mixing at the beginning and end of the day.
My pool is screen enclosed, so skimming is not a concern. I was initially going to dial to 50% and set the runtime for 6 hours (9-11, 2-4, 7-9), however after reading this thread it seems I would be just wasting electricity on the pump.
I think I will go to a 4 hour run (9-10, 2-4, 8-9) so I get the most of my chlorine generation in the middle of the sun and some mixing at the beginning and end of the day.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 66,308
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I don't see any benefit to breaking up your pump and SWG runtimes into the afternoon and evening. I would just run your pump and SWG for 4 hours or so in the early morning and get your FC up to it's daily peak. A few ppm above the FC target level is always good to have. Letting the FC dip during the day and then generating more does not acomplish anything.