Several issues, but most alarming is electric current in pool
- Thread starter bownut
- Start date
-
- Tags
- current electrical leak vinyl liner
Done. I used a wire brush to brush the wire until it was free of oxidation, then attached the copper split bolt to both, then put the new piece in the bonding lug and screwed it down tight.
I did open the junctions for the pool lights. I have attached a picture, my phone died before I could get the other box. This has three grounds and then a black in another screw on a brass plate. Does this mean this niche is bonded? The other light junction has the same three green grounds but no black wire attached like the first one.
I retested after I installed the grounding wire to the pump (as described above), but not immediately before, so I don't know if that is what made the difference in the numbers between this morning and now. When I tested on the 2000m it was 212 and on the 20 it was .2 That number is different from what I got this morning.
Do you have a link to that post so that I can read through that information?
Thank you. I read through the article. The furthest point from my equipment is going to be around 80 feet. I did just happen to buy 128 feet of 6-3 UF wire for my shop, I can probably use one of the three for the test.This article may help you test your bonding grid. Note it says an analog multimeter is required.
How to Test a Swimming Pool Bonding Grid
As electrical-related pool accidents spike, it's imperative that pool pros check the safety of their pool wiring. Here's a simple way to do so.aquamagazine.com
Attachments
Disconnect the bond wire from the pump and put one multimeter lead on the bond wire and one lead on the pump bond lug and check for ac and dc voltage.
Then, reconnect the bond wire to the pump.
What do all of the wires in the junction box go to?
Then, reconnect the bond wire to the pump.
What do all of the wires in the junction box go to?
The bonding wire reads .19 and sometimes .2.
I do not know for sure but my guess is one comes from the panel, one goes to this light, and the third goes to the other light at the other end of the pool. And I was wrong, there is an additional ground wire attached to the brass plate, NOT a black wire. So there is a separate ground at least in this light.
Attachments
Last edited:
I suspect as you do, that the third conduit goes to the other light.
Looks like you have a ground wire from the power panel, one going to the light through the center hole, one to the light attached to the third conduit, and then the one with black tape looks to be the bond wire from the center conduit.
What I don't see is a separate bond wire going to the junction box, but it could be on the bottom of the box and hidden from view.
Looks like you have a ground wire from the power panel, one going to the light through the center hole, one to the light attached to the third conduit, and then the one with black tape looks to be the bond wire from the center conduit.
What I don't see is a separate bond wire going to the junction box, but it could be on the bottom of the box and hidden from view.
The junction box doesn't usually get a bond wire.
In this junction box, it looks like there is only one light cord. I don't see two light cords.
If there's another light, there should be another junction box.
In this junction box, it looks like there is only one light cord. I don't see two light cords.
If there's another light, there should be another junction box.
Last edited:
The volage is DC. And there is another junction box at the other end of the pool.
You're right. I didn't realize that was black tape until I looked at the photo closely then went back to the box and confirmed that is a ground wire.
I cannot get the pool guy to call me back. I am calling the city tomorrow to see if I can find out if there was an electrical inspection when the pool was installed to see what information I can gather about bonding. I pulled up the escutcheon plate (is that the right word for the plates around the ladder rails) and I don't see a wire, I don't even see a bolt where I think I know there should be one. I think it is possible that the bolts corroded completely because there was a lot of debris under the plate. The cups that the rails sit in are very corroded. I have attached pictures of the rails for the ladder where they are at the concrete. The bolts on the handrail do not look like they have a copper wire or any wire for that matter attached to them.
Attachments
Quaker Plastics 4 In. aluminum deck anchor - H10010 - INYOPools.com
H10010 - 4 In. aluminum deck anchor
www.inyopools.com
See an example of an aluminum cup anchor here.
The bond wire is below the surface on the screw on the side of the cup.
Note: Aluminum should never be put on a bond wire because it becomes a sacrificial anode to everything else on the bonding grid, and the aluminum will corrode at an accelerated rate.
Only brass or other corrosion resistant materials should be used for anchor cups.
Ah. Ok, thank you. I looked at the example and did more reading. Now I understand that the bolt I am seeing at the top is to hold the railing in place and I cannot see a potential bonding wire below the surface, as you described. The pool was built in 2008, would having the bond wire on the aluminum cup explain why it is so corroded now? I mean I can pick pieces out with my fingernail. The pool guy loves to blame salt for corroding everything (because he hates salt pools, our salt cell was put in by a different person), and I was thinking the same thing until you brought that up.Quaker Plastics 4 In. aluminum deck anchor - H10010 - INYOPools.com
H10010 - 4 In. aluminum deck anchor
See an example of an aluminum cup anchor here.
The bond wire is below the surface on the screw on the side of the cup.
Note: Aluminum should never be put on a bond wire because it becomes a sacrificial anode to everything else on the bonding grid, and the aluminum will corrode at an accelerated rate.
Only brass or other corrosion resistant materials should be used for anchor cups.
I just watched the following video that talks about stray voltage at 49:15 (
What do I do now? I've had the pool mostly drained for several days. I still believe there is a hole in the liner because of being able to detect the current and because I am still losing some water, but not as much as when the lights were under water, and I can't find the hole in the liner. The pool guy, who also has a LeakTrac (and is the only person in the area with one) and charges $200 to use it, isnt' responding to calls. So that also means I can't ask him if he put in a equipotential bonding grid or even bonded everything together. I'm sorry, this is just one of the big, expensive issues on my plate right now. Thank you for all your help.
Aluminum will corrode in any case. Being on a bond wire can accelerate the corrosion.
Stray voltages and currents can be extremely difficult to diagnose and fix.
Maybe contact a pool builder and ask for a referral to an electrician who does pool bonding and electrical.
Stray voltages and currents can be extremely difficult to diagnose and fix.
Maybe contact a pool builder and ask for a referral to an electrician who does pool bonding and electrical.
Here is an update. I called the pool guy and left a message asking about the bonding. He did call back and said that he did a 6x6x6 so 6"×6" grid with #6 wire and connected all the pool parts to it. He said the lights have a ground with a nut inside and outside the niche (not sure if I am saying that right). But I do not know how the lights are tied to the equipotential grid. Obviously I have some sort of issue with it not being connected an am going to try this suggestion from earlier.
This article may help you test your bonding grid. Note it says an analog multimeter is required.
How to Test a Swimming Pool Bonding Grid
As electrical-related pool accidents spike, it's imperative that pool pros check the safety of their pool wiring. Here's a simple way to do so.
the bonding grid should also extend to the light niche. there is the wire for the pool light which is black white and green this comes from the fixture. there is an additional insulated #8 wire (usually green) that attaches inside the niche onto the water bond plate and is potted in with potting compound. Then to top it all off the #8 bare copper bond wire attaches to the lug on the outside of niche (which actually connects to the inside plate thru the niche) and that runs back to the UL listed light junction box on the OUTSIDE of the conduit and goes to the bond lug on the bottom of the junction box. The other wires are all inside the light niche conduit. I just had an inspection yesterday for a light and its fresh on my mind
Some junction boxes don't have an external bond lug to accept a bond wire.
If the junction box is more than 5 feet away from the pool, the junction box is not required to be bonded.
Most older junction boxes are not bonded, but it's probably becoming standard to do it now.
The #8 ground wire effectively bonds the junction box to the bonding grid because the internal lug in the niche is directly connected to the external bond lug and bond wire.
If the junction box is more than 5 feet away from the pool, the junction box is not required to be bonded.
Most older junction boxes are not bonded, but it's probably becoming standard to do it now.
The #8 ground wire effectively bonds the junction box to the bonding grid because the internal lug in the niche is directly connected to the external bond lug and bond wire.
actually according to current NEC code the light niche if plastic or PVC conduit has to be bonded no matter the distance, and any Jbox now needs to have the ground lug. The inspector I dealt with yesterday had a nice friendly convo with me about it all
All 120 volt junction boxes have ground lugs. They always have. Not all junction boxes have an external bond lug. The junction box only has to be bonded if it's within 5 feet of the pool. For a 120volt light, there has to be a ground path between the niche and the junction box. This is either a metal conduit or a #8 insulated ground wire in the conduit.
Listed low voltage lighting systems are exempt from grounding and bonding requirements.
www.haywardflowcontrol.com
Listed low voltage lighting systems are exempt from grounding and bonding requirements.
UL/NEC Low-voltage Pool and Spa Lighting Code Change | Hayward Residential and Commercial Pool Products
Electrical Inspector Alert: UL/NEC Low-voltage Pool and Spa Lighting Code Change
www.haywardflowcontrol.com
borjis
LifeTime Supporter
It looks like he is still trying to figure it out, but also appears his bonding
grid needs to be rebuilt and he potentially has leaking voltage from a transformer nearby. (unconfirmed at this point)
Here is the thread:
A slight "shock"
No concern. The light itself is sealed. The niche is wet. An important thing to realize is that even if you throw a toaster in a properly bonded pool, you will NOT feel a shock. Right. I understand that. I just wanted to make sure this wasn’t an issue. Thanks
www.troublefreepool.com