Plumbing Airlock issue?

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A

Ando11

Member
Apr 1, 2019
9
Arizona
My pool has been experiencing an odd issue. It all started with a small air leak on the suction side of the pump. Turned out I need to replace the valve o rings and the valve housing due to a crack. So I had the items repaired and replaced along with some re plumb. Now when the pool runs I have a much larger air issue on the suction side. If I change the valve to the drain only the air issue goes away. When I switch to the skimmer only the issue is extreme. Water level is fine. When I have the valve set to skimmers only and look into the pump basket the water is flowing and then appears to stop and then flows again. If I put my hand in the skimmers you can feel the water pulling consistently then stop and then begin again. I have been discussing this with my pool repair person and he is insisting that out of no where I now have a plumbing leak. I think it is due to the way he plumbed the pump due to the fact that both skimmer lines have the same symptoms and it would be improbable for 2 lines to get a leak out of no where unless it is leaking after the 2 lines meet to create 1 line going into the valve. Long story short - no water anywhere by that line. Here is a picture of the re-plumed line. Plumb.jpg
 
A,

Does the water in the skimmer form a toilet bowl effect and then stop and fill up and then repeat the toilet bowl effect? If so, the number one reason for that problem is that either the water level in the pool is not up to the middle of the skimmer or the Weir door is stuck up..

I'm sorry but your picture does not really show us anything.. You need to back up a little and show us views from different angles.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I don’t think you have a leak either. Unless it’s in the new work you had done. Depending on the type of filter, and also when the filter is located above the pool water level, filters can drain during a repair leaving a cavity of trapped air. Sometimes you need to first fill your filter with water completely. Do this by removing a pressure gauge located on top of the filter, then bleed off the air until it fills with water.
I kind of doubt this is your issue but if you have a pressure gauge on your filter unscrew it, wait for water, turn off pump, replace gauge. Good luck.
 
Most filters have an air bleed valve on top. So typically you do not need to remove the pressure gauge to bleed the air.
 
Ando11 said:
My pool has been experiencing an odd issue. It all started with a small air leak on the suction side of the pump. Turned out I need to replace the valve o rings and the valve housing due to a crack. So I had the items repaired and replaced along with some re plumb. Now when the pool runs I have a much larger air issue on the suction side. If I change the valve to the drain only the air issue goes away. When I switch to the skimmer only the issue is extreme. Water level is fine. When I have the valve set to skimmers only and look into the pump basket the water is flowing and then appears to stop and then flows again. If I put my hand in the skimmers you can feel the water pulling consistently then stop and then begin again. I have been discussing this with my pool repair person and he is insisting that out of no where I now have a plumbing leak. I think it is due to the way he plumbed the pump due to the fact that both skimmer lines have the same symptoms and it would be improbable for 2 lines to get a leak out of no where unless it is leaking after the 2 lines meet to create 1 line going into the valve. Long story short - no water anywhere by that line. Here is a picture of the re-plumed line. View attachment 96208
Click to expand...
I'll post better pictures today. It does react exactly like a toilet would when flushed. But water level is fine and weir doors are open. The pump is much louder than it used to be before the work was performed. Almost seems like it is stressing. I am using a cartridge filter. All air is out of system using the bleed. Again - odd part of it is when valve is set to drain system works without air but pump is very loud but when valve is moved to skimmer water flow stops, starts and stops again. When I put my hand down by the skimmer ports for both skimmers you can feel the water pulling then stopping and then pulling again.
 
A,

In theory, it is impossible for a pool pump to suck more water out of a Skimmer than can "fall" into the skimmer from the pool. The reason it works on the main drain is that the pump can't run out of water... Maybe you have a different problem that I just can't visualize...

Do I understand you correctly, that you have a Jandy valve that selects between Skimmer #1 and Skimmer #2????

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
A,

In theory, it is impossible for a pool pump to suck more water out of a Skimmer than can "fall" into the skimmer from the pool. The reason it works on the main drain is that the pump can't run out of water... Maybe you have a different problem that I just can't visualize...

Do I understand you correctly, that you have a Jandy valve that selects between Skimmer #1 and Skimmer #2????

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Jandy valve selects between drain and skimmers. the skimmers do not empty out the filter pump basket empties out like toilet and then refills with water. That is what is leading me to think maybe the plumb is creating some sort of airlock situation.
 

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Ando11 said:
it appears that they are glued. I'll ask
Click to expand...
I guess they could have been glued using clear PVC glue and no primer. A bit difficult to tell from your pictures. In any case, you have a suction side air leak somewhere - if you are continually getting air in the pump basket.

Please fill out your signature with your pool and equipment specs. Having it readily available in your signature makes it easier for us to help you.
 
The last time I had a similar issue as yours (pump struggling / air issues) it was due to a clog from some small pine cones
that had gotten into the plumbing. This was on the main drain though, not the skimmer. The old main drain cover was missing
and some pine cones fell in i guess. They eventually came through into the pump basket.
 
proavia said:
I guess they could have been glued using clear PVC glue and no primer. A bit difficult to tell from your pictures. In any case, you have a suction side air leak somewhere - if you are continually getting air in the pump basket.

Please fill out your signature with your pool and equipment specs. Having it readily available in your signature makes it easier for us to help you.
Click to expand...

definite suction side but only when the valve is set to using the skimmers. If I run it drain only no air but filter pump is loud. That's what make me think it has something to do with the way he plumbed the piping. I updated pool specs in signature as well
 
borjis said:
The last time I had a similar issue as yours (pump struggling / air issues) it was due to a clog from some small pine cones
that had gotten into the plumbing. This was on the main drain though, not the skimmer. The old main drain cover was missing
and some pine cones fell in i guess. They eventually came through into the pump basket.
Click to expand...

I thought about that as well due to the water flowing to the pump without issue and then stopping and restarting to flow again.
Ando11 said:
definite suction side but only when the valve is set to using the skimmers. If I run it drain only no air but filter pump is loud. That's what make me think it has something to do with the way he plumbed the piping. I updated pool specs in signature as well
Click to expand...

Everything I have read indicates that the flow of water could get disrupted if the suction plumbing pipe exceeds the height is the inlet port for the pump as well as to never have an elbow going directly into the inlet. Here is pic of how it was plumbed (different pool pump due to old photo but plumb was identical) and now how it is plumbed.
 

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You can try the shaving cream trick. Put shaving cream on each pipe to fitting/valve connection and see where it's sucking in the shaving cream.
 
Does the pump sound like it has a bunch of marbles in it? That's usually a sign of cavitation.

So no air in pump basket on main drain? Only when pulling from one or both skimmers? What rpm does this happen at? What happens if you raise/lower the rpm?
 
proavia said:
Does the pump sound like it has a bunch of marbles in it? That's usually a sign of cavitation.

So no air in pump basket on main drain? Only when pulling from one or both skimmers? What rpm does this happen at? What happens if you raise/lower the rpm?
Click to expand...

RPM 3450 - and no air when using main drain only. Not marbles just louder than it used to be. I can hear it switching zones from my back door and I used to have to go to the other side of the Ramada to hear the transition of zones.
 
Chances are if you're getting the toilet bowl effect in the skimmers, air is getting sucked in at the skimmers. You can try raising the pool water level a little and/or running the pump at a slower speed. Try running the pump at 3000 rpm with the skimmers open and see if the issue stops.

Is your infloor on a separate pump or plumbed through the VS pump?
 
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