New Construction: Cathedral City CA

Remember, you'll be emptying the pool soon, 100%. So using pucks is a good solution for you, because you don't have the normal concerns about doing so. Whatever the pucks do to your CYA level won't really matter. You'll come back, measure your CYA level, and use the CYA/FC chart to reestablish your FC level for, what, a month or so. Then you'll be getting "brand new water." So puck away. An elevated CYA level might even help with your current FC loss issues, for that last month or so. I seem to recall some in the southern states run their non-swg pools about CYA50 to help with all the sun, anyway. Does that extra CYA sound right, Kim? Marty?

Whatever pucks you have left over, you can use to both chlorinate and add CYA after you get your new surface and new water. You can use solid CYA the first month to get you up to CYA30 or so, then use the pucks to gradually raise your CYA to SWG level, even though you won't have salt yet. With a little effort and some PoolMath, you'll reach your CYA of 70-80 right about the time you'll be adding salt.

Mine was removed with some sort of sand blasting process, though I don't know what media ("sand") was used. It was in the $400 range. Mine was done after the chipout and before the plaster. I'm guessing that if there was a chemical solution available, especially if MA worked with some elbow grease, that that would be the go to method.

I was told the blasting could be done with water in the pool. They vacuum up the media after it settles on the bottom. Seems like now's the time, though. Is there any wiggle room in the plaster schedule, to delay a day while you get some blasting done? I seem to remember it only took them a couple hours. My plaster company's crew did the blasting, they had the equipment. Can your plasterer do it?

Does anybody else here have a recipe/method for removing this calcium line that isn't blasting?

I have high CH and TA water, and pretty strong evaporation, and since October not a spec of calcium on my tile. I run a negative CSI. Is scaling that much worse in the south?

I have an autofill, but I'm noticing it doesn't keep a perfect level. It drops down a bit, then fills back up. Also, I have very consistent wind, every day. I'm wondering if a "variable" water level and wind agitation, along with low TA and no CH-creep are contributing factors to my lack of scaling on the tile... By that I mean: is the negative CSI and the constantly moving water level keeping my tile clean?

My tile had a decent layer of scale on it before I took over the pool. So I know the potential is there. I just figured it was the previous pool guy doing a lousy job...

Was a sequestrant added while the pool was filling? That looks like calcium silicate scale from new plaster and if so, full strength acid will not touch it

Yorker said:

Dirk, doesn't your soft water help a lot to inhibit scale?

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I've been giving credit to the soft water fill system, for sure. My understanding is that by maintaining slightly negative CSI, you inhibit scaling. Maintaining my CH at a constant level, without buildup (which is what the softener is doing), is a big part of keeping my CSI where I want it without having to whack out my pH.

I was told by someone to expect scaling at the water line, no matter how good my CSI, because of evaporation. Which is what Marty is saying. It just hasn't happened yet. I was hypothesizing that maybe my pool has a slight advantage over others because the water line doesn't sit still, in one place, all day long (combination of autofill and wind).

Just the usual devil's advocate stuff...

IMO the PB bungled the startup. The pool guy assigned to your pool was not up to the task. It's why your pool is being resurfaced. It was pretty badly mismanaged. If it were me, I would not place myself in the position of having to ask "permission" to do anything, but rather I'd dictate the terms and conditions of the next startup. And I'd do so in no uncertain terms.

The plan you outline above is in keeping with standard practices for pool startup. There should be no resistance to it. You are in essence volunteering to do the startup yourself (which I whole-heartedly recommend). Insist on doing so, but explore with the PB what he needs to see in order to maintain your warranty. Allow him (or his "pool guy") to come as often as he likes to inspect the surface, the equipment, the programming, the chemical levels, etc, to confirm, convince himself, that you are doing a proper job, the one you have both agreed to. But under no circumstances allow anyone other than yourself to adjust anything, or dose that pool with anything, or perform any other task. Period. That, for me, would be non-negotiable. Make it clear that you will be managing the startup, and that you'll be doing so in such a way that is consistent with what the PB needs to maintain the warranty. If one of the "inspections" reveals something the pool guy doesn't like, then that will be brought to your attention and discussed. Not acted upon by the pool guy without your express permission.

This is YOUR pool. You have to live with the results of this startup, not the PB. And he's already failed at this once, so he's in no position to say much about anything (IMO). You know him, you know best what approach he'll respond to. But if you present it correctly, and offer him what would make him comfortable, he should have no reason to say no. After all, you're performing all the work and pretty much letting him off the hook for the labor, you're doing everything he would do, but more of it, and still giving him the opportunity to oversee the process. Win-win.

The only thing I'd modify about your plan: I'd run the pump 24-7 at a pretty good clip for at least as long as you're brushing. The brushing suspends the plaster dust in the water column, but it's the pumping and filter that remove it (along with the sequestrant). I'd brush twice a day for a month, regardless of seeing dust or not. I'd test and dose with chlorine and acid, as needed, every day until you fire up the SWG. Handle all the chemicals yourself (LC, MA, CYA, Salt). I like your plan to clean the filter often. This is likely more work than absolutely needed, but extra brushing, extra pumping won't hurt anything and might actually help. Why take the chance of compromising your new surface just to save a few hours of work or $50 of electricity? You only get to do the startup for this batch once. Do it yourself. Do it right.

Yorker said:

Hi Brian, I have no idea if they did or not. Since we use city water, I read on another thread that sequestrant would probably not be necessary, but still could not hurt. I'll check with the PB before our the new pebble surface is completed and refilled. I also read that it should be added at least 4 hours before any chlorine is introduced.

What about the buildup make s it look like calcium silicate scale?

I did go back and try some pure MA on a couple of tiles with zero success.

Is this the type of sequestrant you're referring to?
https://www.amazon.com/Pool-Mate-1-2550-Mineral-Swimming/dp/B00J3JMF9I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1534376488&sr=8-2&keywords=sequestrant+for+pool

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I recommend Startup-Tec, BeauTec, of any one of the Jack's Magic products for Startups.

Your fill water is important but there's more to it than that. A newly plastered pool has tons of calcium (carbonate and silicate) that get released into the water while the pool fills and brushed. After just a short period of time filling the pH of the water is already very high which is conducive to scale formation - a sequestrant helps greatly with this. I've seen many on the forum only promote the use of sequestrants if there are metals in the fill water..........well, calcium is actually a metal after all and a sequestrant should be used on every new pool surface fill.

Calcium Carbonate will react with acid by fizzing and dissolving. Calcium Silicate will not be impacted by full strength acid and usually can only be removed by media blasting.

It may be worth giving Jack's Magic a call to discuss your options. They have a very knowledgeable staff and products that work really well.

I used a sequestrant. Day two if I remember right. It was left by the plasterers. I never saw a puff of dust, ever. I attribute that to the acid wash (that's what I was told). But I followed my own advice and brushed twice a day for a month anyway, and ran the pump the whole time... I think I remember turning it down a bit after a couple weeks, but I let it run... Everything else I did "by the book" (the NPC startup card). I checked with the plasterer and he said I could run my Rebel after about a week. Others have different opinions about that. I don't have any visible damage from doing so. I couldn't speak to any long-term affect of doing that. Don't take the chance if you're being ultra careful.

Put dry CYA into a sock into your skimmer. Don't try to add it to your pool. DON'T USE LIQUID! I didn't up the CYA and add salt for SWG until spring (like, 5 months after startup). Completely removed any chance of salt affecting the cure. Consider that. How soon this year will it be too cold to use your SWG? Does the water stay warm all year down your way? If not, you'll be adding chlorine manually anyway. Why add salt? Maybe run your pool as non-swg until it warms up next year.

Ha, as usual, others here have to tug on the ol' choke chain leash when I get fired up about contractors!! Kim's idea is excellent. Just message the log from your Pool Math app each day. It'll show the test results and what you dosed (I think it shows dosing, I don't use that anymore, so I couldn't test that). How could he not go for that? He won't even read them after a day or two, I'll bet.

Have a log output printed out for your PB when you show him your kit.

Compare Jack's startup to this:

https://mmgtx.com/docs/STARTUP-by-NPC.pdf

Looks to be very similar if not identical. Certainly Jack's lifted most of theirs from NPC.

I brushed on Day 1 (which is the day after fill day). No ill effects. Not sure why TFP is different. The NPC card is designed for plaster, so pebble would be even tougher. I think you're OK brushing day 1. No metal bristles, though.

You never need to test fill water for CYA, you'll never find any. It's added to pool water, not city water. Surprised there's no FC in fill water. Once your pool is full and well circulated, test that for your fill water baseline. Don't trust the numbers you just got. What's in your pool is what's important.

Run the meter trick again to confirm your volume.

Sequestrant, CYA, CL and MA. Nothing else.