Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!

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Good news! I got my TF-100 testing kit in the mail today! I don't want to attempt figuring any of it out tonight, but that will come soon.

I also spoke with my plaster guy and he says after they plaster and do the acid wash the following day, I'm free to fill up my pool and do startup any way I want. So it looks like I'll be researching the Bicarbonate Startup and see if I can do it that way (Fair warning... I'm sure I'll be requesting help!)

Also, we might be getting our decking formed tomorrow. The pour will have to wait until a stretch of warmer weather is forecast, but we're making progress!
 
Good to hear you are considering the bicarb start up! I've done it more than a few times and would be happy to offer up any a advice. It really isn't all that complicated and will provide your investment with the best chance of proper curing and longevity.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
A little light reading for your evening - Pool School - Start-up New Plaster

And this - A Bicarb Start-up guide for TFP members
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Thanks, Matt! I just read the first and skimmed the second after having read it the other day. I'll have to let the Bicarb instructions sink in, but it sounds like it's worth doing. Can you really not swim for a whole month when doing any of these? It seems some PBs say folks can jump right in.

Nursenini said:
Jamie, I got my kit back in Dec and haven't tried it out yet. I'm going to play with it this week sometime, now that the dig is finally in sight. It looks a bit intimidating.
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It looks a bit intimidating to me, too, Denise. I'm sure it will look easier in the morning, but even then I'm a little nervous!

MarianParoo said:
Naw. It's pretty easy. It just takes practice. Test your fill twice, a few hours apart, and see where they are different.
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This is what I need to hear. I'll see if I have time tomorrow to figure things out.

bdavis466 said:
Good to hear you are considering the bicarb start up! I've done it more than a few times and would be happy to offer up any a advice. It really isn't all that complicated and will provide your investment with the best chance of proper curing and longevity.
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Thank you for your offer to help, Brian. I figure if I'm trying to get everything else right on my build, I might as well go all out and do the best startup there is, especially when I'm not getting any push back from the plaster company. Plaster is still a ways off, so I should have time to figure it all out -- hopefully!
 
JamieP said:
Thanks, Matt! I just read the first and skimmed the second after having read it the other day. I'll have to let the Bicarb instructions sink in, but it sounds like it's worth doing. Can you really not swim for a whole month when doing any of these? It seems some PBs say folks can jump right in.
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Technically with a plaster surface and a bicarbonate startup, you want to stay out of the water because (A) you want the bicarb process to do it's magic and yucky human beings with all of their "body chemistry" just mess up the intricate and wonderful chemistry that is going on and (B) the water probably won't feel very nice. Also, for the first few days you don't add a lot of chlorine so you don't want to inadvertently cause an algae/bacteria/green water problem. Best to wait.

And as for all those PB's that say "jump right in", well it's because most of them don't follow a proper startup procedure and none of them want to be the "bad guy" telling a brand new pool owner who just dropped 50-large that they have to babysit their beautiful new pool for 30 days while they wait for the plaster to cure. So yes, you will be tested in your resolve as super-mom in having to restrain your wonderful children as they whine incessantly about not being allowed in the new pool ... ;)
 

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Question about concrete decking...

The concrete won't be poured for a few days, but when they score the control joints, I read that they need to be 1/4 the thickness of the concrete. Is that right? When I asked the contractor he said their tool makes a 3/8" cut but that seems way too shallow to me. I'm trying to see how I can make sure the cuts are deep enough.

Also, once they are cut, does something go inside them or are they left as open grooves? I don't think the concrete guy has quoted me to supply anything. What should I do about this?

When I get some time this afternoon I'm going to attempt my first chemistry tests on my tap water to see what I'll be dealing with for fill water. I'll keep you posted!
 
How thick is your concrete?

The controls joints are typically left open as grooves. You don't put anything in the grooves.

Have fun with the new chemistry set ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
Just like Matt said, control joints provide a desired location for shrinkage cracks to occur. If the joints are "tooled" they are placed in the concrete before it sets up and are 3/8"-1/2" deep (depending of the jointer). The depth doesn't have to be as deep as a saw cut since this joint is created so early on in the process and width of the joint also plays into the ability to provide stress relief for the slab and allow the crack to occur.

An expansion joint is a different animal where a compressible medium (typically foam or asphalt strips) is used to create a void and allow the entire slab the ability to expand and contract without placing stress on another structural member. The voids are filled with a self leveling type caulking to seal the joint, improve the aesthetics and not interfere with the expansion/ contraction cycles.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
How thick is your concrete?

The controls joints are typically left open as grooves. You don't put anything in the grooves.

Have fun with the new chemistry set ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt. The concrete is set to be 3 1/2" - 4" thick. The guy said they tool the joints while it is still wet instead of sawing them after is is dry, so maybe that's a difference on the depth?

I did a little more reading, and I think I was thinkng of expansion joints that go all the way through the concrete and get some sort of rod (wood or plastic) or caulking between them. I don't think my pour is set to have those kind of joints.

I watched the testing video that Kim linked to and have a better idea of what's supposed to happen, but it will make more sense when I do it myself later (hopefully!) :)

- - - Updated - - -

bdavis466 said:
Just like Matt said, control joints provide a desired location for shrinkage cracks to occur. If the joints are "tooled" they are placed in the concrete before it sets up and are 3/8"-1/2" deep (depending of the jointer). The depth doesn't have to be as deep as a saw cut since this joint is created so early on in the process and width of the joint also plays into the ability to provide stress relief for the slab and allow the crack to occur.

An expansion joint is a different animal where a compressible medium (typically foam or asphalt strips) is used to create a void and allow the entire slab the ability to expand and contract without placing stress on another structural member. The voids are filled with a self leveling type caulking to seal the joint, improve the aesthetics and not interfere with the expansion/ contraction cycles.
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That's great info, Brian. Thank you. From the sound of it, I'm getting the former kind of joint, and the 3/8" depth should be fine, right?
 
I ALWAYS chase a tooled joint with a partner saw and diamond dry blade. (a circular saw with a concrete blade will work, but you'll be at it a while). I've seen countless times where the inevitable shrinkage crack happens ALONG SIDE of a tooled joint. This cut must be made as soon as the concrete will cut without raveling, but under no circumstances should it be more than 24 hours after the pour. The cut should be at least 1 inch deep to assure that the slab is weakened enough, as compared to the surrounding concrete to assure the crack happens where you want it. And as Brian has advised before, the less water in the mix, the less shrinkage will occur.

Your concrete will only turn out as well as the finishers working it. If they're in a hurry and close up the surface too early (before the bleed water rises) or if they are constantly "baptizing" it with a water-soaked brush, you will get spalling and delamination. It happens more frequently up north where there are multiple freeze/thaw cycles, but it can happen in any climate.

In closing, the best thing you can do is keep your concrete damp the first week of the cure. Light misting (and I mean light, during the first couple days) will keep the concrete damp and aid in hydration. (Concrete doesn't dry, it CURES). This will also slow the shrinkage rate and limit stress cracking. In other words, bond with your slab, as some here like to put it :).
 
bdavis466 said:
Yes, perfectly fine and preferred in my opinion over sawed joints.

You should have an expansion joint between the pool shell and decking. Is that not the case?
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Oh, yes, we do have that. There is foam between the coping and where the deck will be, and also between existing slabs and the new concrete. I assume we'll use mastic for that gap.
 

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