Need Help with Pentair IC40 SWG

[Jimrahbe]

C,

It would not hurt anything to remove the flapper..

You absolutely need a check valve if you had a chlorine tab feeder.. Because when you shut off the pump, stuff that is still inside the tab feeder, will flow backwards into the heater.. Eating it as we talk.. A SWCG is either on or off.. This is nothing inside that can flow backwards into the heater..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

What are the downsides and upsides to running my pump 24/7/365? Is this a norm in the industry? Or would this be considered an exception case? I assume that pump life may decrease over time since it is being run all the time?

As @Jimrahbe pointed out - he runs 24/7 and a lot of members with SWCGs run 24/7 - especially if you are in hot climate. It will be fine.

 

[PoolStored]

From your math, I should be running my salt cell at 20-25% of its output 24/7 to create the desired 3 ppm/day output?

Get pool math. Link-->PoolMath
Configure your pool.
Use the "Effects of Adding Function" Choose SWG, and select the IC-40 for your cell.
Play with % and you will see the addition change.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

The basic idea is that for the first week or two, you test the FC in your pool water every couple of days.. You can then get a feel for how much FC your pool is using and then adjust the output up or down as needed.. Once you get a feel for how things work you should not have to make more than a few changes per season.

The amount of FC you need is based upon the CYA (Stabilizer) in your pool water.. See the saltwater section of this chart.. FC/CYA Levels

If you have been using tablets, your CYA may be sky high...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

The basic idea is that for the first week or two, you test the FC in your pool water every couple of days.. You can then get a feel for how much FC your pool is using and then adjust the output up or down as needed.. Once you get a feel for how things work you should not have to make more than a few changes per season.

The amount of FC you need is based upon the CYA (Stabilizer) in your pool water.. See the saltwater section of this chart.. FC/CYA Levels

If you have been using tablets, your CYA may be sky high...

Thanks,

Jim R.

My pool servicer has been managing this install. He was adding 1-2 big bags of salt to get the water prepped for the SWG installed. During that time, he stopped adding/adjusting liquid chlorine. He did 1-2 bags every week to prevent crystallization (or so he was explaining).

I have a couple floating chlorine tab holders that skim the pool surface. I can probably remove those now.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I assume that pump life may decrease over time since it is being run all the time?

C,

Just for reference... Until this year I owned three pools.. All three pools have 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps.. They have been running 24/7, mostly at 1200 rpm, for well over 12 years.. All three pumps operate today, just like the day I installed them.. I have had zero pump failures of any kind... Maybe I'm just lucky, but I doubt it.. I personally believe that running 24/7, at a low rpm, is much better on the pump then starting and stopping it every day..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

Most pool guys do not use liquid chlorine.. I'm glad your guy does...

Do you plan to continue using him or do you plan to maintain the pool yourself???

Maintaining a saltwater pools is so easy, even I can do it...

Jim R.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

You have a gas heater and a smaller filter, so my 'guess' is that you will have to run 1700 to 1800 rpm, to close your SWCG's flow switch.. Still not a lot of electricity..

Go into the pump and slowly increase the speed from 1500 up toward 1800 and see where the SWCG's flow switch turns green..

I don't see a need to run 2800, unless you have a suction powered cleaner and it does not look like you do..

You don't need an automation system, but it would automatically turn the Intake and Return valves when you want to switch between the pool mode and the spa mode.. Does your spa spillover into your pool?? I ask, because the valves in your pic will not allow that to happen.

An automation system would ensure that your main pump was on, before turning on the cell..

Cell's can explode, but several things have to go bad at the same time, so it is rare.. Something to fix, but I would not turn off the cell for now, as you will need the chlorine.

The simplest thing to do is just run 24/7.. at a speed that just turns your cell on.... This is what I do and I love it.. At a low rpm you can't hear the pump and it cost very little to run.. My cost to run 24/7 is less than $20 bucks a month.. I like making a little chlorine all the time and I like skimming all the time.. I also like the look of my pool when it is not 'dead'..

There are other things that you can do with the AC power to the cell, but let's get you up and running before we go down that path.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,

Read through this comment again. Since my filter is a bit under-sized, is it worth replacing in the near future as well?

As far as the check valve situation and SWG goes, I am going to remove the flap door and run the SWG 24/7 with the pump being on 24/7.

Thanks!

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

Most pool guys do not use liquid chlorine.. I'm glad your guy does...

Do you plan to continue using him or do you plan to maintain the pool yourself???

Maintaining a saltwater pools is so easy, even I can do it...

Jim R.

Not sure. He has been a great friend to have and has done plenty of installs. I requested the SWG, so he installed it, I think we are both learning here.

The big decision maker will be the turn of the economy and my job. If everything stays afloat () then I likely will keep him on.

I will try and educate myself as much as possible in the meantime and get ready to manage it on my own if the time comes.

Thanks for your consistent help and quick answers. This thread, and website, has been a tremendous resource.

 

[Jimrahbe]

is it worth replacing in the near future as well?

C,

I doubt it... I think the first thing to do is determine what speed you need to run your pump to close the SWCG flow switch..

Thanks,

Jim R

 

[HermanTX]

@CaliPoolOwner
Just thinking through a future option to use a clock timer for your SWCG if you ever wish to run a shorter time than 24/7.
Where is the circuit breaker that powers the IntelliChlor transformer? Is that a 20amp 240 circuit? Maybe show a photo of the breaker box powers both the SWCG and the pump.

If you wish to maintain a 24/7 pump runtime then no need to consider this.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

There is nothing 'wrong' with using a pool guy... but, I also think it is important for the home owner to understand how their pool works, so that they know when things don't look right..

Sorry to say, in some cases I doubt the home owner even knows that there is water in the pool...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Thank you Jim, I am learning as I go and I really appreciate your input. I will go with 24/7/365 for now. From your math, I should be running my salt cell at 20-25% of its output 24/7 to create the desired 3 ppm/day output?

Cali - If helpful, my pool is almost as big as yours (13k gallons) and I run my pump 24/7 (for the same cost as running a ceiling fan) and set my IC40 at 20%.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Cali - If helpful, my pool is almost as big as yours (13k gallons) and I run my pump 24/7 (for the same cost as running a ceiling fan) and set my IC40 at 20%.

Thanks that is good to know. So you're at 1 green LED, solid for 20%? I'll keep that as a starting point for myself.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Well... it looks like I have more problems to solve. Don't know what is going on, but would appreciate some tips on next steps.

Current Status: SWG (Pentair IC40) is installed but not powered on. All plumbing is the same as the previous picture uploaded earlier.

Here come the additional problems. I went to our local pool shop and brought my pool water to them in their testing vial. Here's the results.



Based on the results, the pool shop told me that I had accumulated quite a bit of calcium but could not say the exact reason for the cyanuric acid levels. Per the pool shop, they recommended draining at least 1/2 way and refilling with the SWG remaining off. They want to see the calcium hardness and cyanuric acid levels come down quite a bit before we turn on the SWG and find the sweet spot of what setting to use. Does this sound like sound advice?

They thought maybe my pool guy shocked the water when he was changing from chlorine pool to salt cell. I asked him if he did, have not heard back yet.

I'm leaning more towards truly understanding all this stuff and managing on my own at some point in the future.

Thanks everyone.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Thanks that is good to know. So you're at 1 green LED, solid for 20%? I'll keep that as a starting point for myself.

Yes and I will gradually increase it based on my chlorine needs. That is usually 40-60% in the heat of the summer with us swimming multiple times a week.

 

[JJ_Tex]

We find pool store results very unreliable and often financially motivated.

As such, its hard to give advice based on pool store results especially for something fairly drastic like draining half your water. Ideally you can get your own test kit that you can trust (see my signature if needed). In the meantime I would not take any action based on those results, but find out:
- Could your CYA really be high? This generally comes from pools that have extensively used chlorine pucks as their primary form of chlorination
- Could your Calcium be high (400's isn't terrible btw)? S. Cal has fairly hard water and would explain the calcium as could lots of use of cal-hypo shock

 

[HermanTX]

They want to see the calcium hardness and cyanuric acid levels come down quite a bit before we turn on the SWG and find the sweet spot of what setting to use. Does this sound like sound advice?

They thought maybe my pool guy shocked the water when he was changing from chlorine pool to salt cell. I asked him if he did, have not heard back yet.

The only concerning number is the CYA. We cannot trust pool store numbers because potential for contamination with prior pool sample or if they use an electronic tester, is it in calibration? Draining partially is accurate if your CYA is really over 100.
How does your pool guy chlorinate the pool or shock it prior to using the SWCG? Is he using cal-hypo which will add calcium but not CYA. If he used pucks, it would add CYA and not calcium. If you have hard water and have had to top up your pool then calcium will accumulate over time.
Give us some more details on what chlorinating products have been used.
Have you considered purchasing your own test kit - it is best to review
Test Kits Compared

 

[ajw22]

Earlier, I gave you this link to TFP resources...

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Pool store CYA test maxes out over 100. Your CYA is high and could be over 200 or 300. Only your own test kit will tell you what you really need to do.

You need to get the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Salt Test Kits The TFT kits are a better value.

Once you get your test kit, post the results here, and we can discuss what to do next.

BTW, calcium hardness up to 800 is okay. Around 450 is just fine.

You are not getting good advice from your Pool Store.

Your choice if you want to adopt TFP methods or follow the Pool Store. You can't go in halfway. That does not work out well.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

The only concerning number is the CYA. We cannot trust pool store numbers because potential for contamination with prior pool sample or if they use an electronic tester, is it in calibration? Draining partially is accurate if your CYA is really over 100.
How does your pool guy chlorinate the pool or shock it prior to using the SWCG? Is he using cal-hypo which will add calcium but not CYA. If he used pucks, it would add CYA and not calcium. If you have hard water and have had to top up your pool then calcium will accumulate over time.
Give us some more details on what chlorinating products have been used.
Have you considered purchasing your own test kit - it is best to review
Test Kits Compared

We topped off about an 1-2" every week or other week during the summer when we were evaporating water. In the winter it has slowed quite a bit so we haven't had to top it off since its been raining as well.

I just ordered the TF-100 salt test kit. I'll start with using this to get an accurate test result.

Thanks for the tips. I am still awaiting an update from my pool servicer regarding specific products.

In the meantime, is it fine to leave my SWG off? If its simply plumbed in line, but has no power to it, is running the pump going to harm it in any way? I assume the water is just flowing through it without it generating any chlorine.