New equipment plumbing with lots of tight 90 bends?

[sporf]

My builder just started plumbing the equipment pad and I'm concerned about how many tight 90 degree turns are in the normal flow. I see 9 and counting: 3 from the pump output to the filter input, 6 from the filter output to the chlorinator, and I expect a few more are needed to get to the returns.

Is this good or bad? Should I ask the builder to change it?

It looks overly restrictive to me and doesn't look like the Jandy reference image attached.

I was expecting something like the Jandy reference with one 90 sweep from pump to filter, one 90 sweep from filter to heater, and maybe two 90 sweeps out of the heater. I like the 3-way bypasses the builder added but I expected them to be installed so normal flow goes straight through them and they only turn the flow 90 when used to bypass something. I tried to show that in the attached revised.jpg

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

It won't make a lick of difference!!!

You have a VS pump, so the basic idea is to run as slow as you can and still get the job done.

Edit... You normally would not by-pass your filter... Edit..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sporf]

Found this post that shows switching from hard 90s to sweep 90s reduces head and increases efficiency - "the difference is quantified and you can tell the difference on your electric bill.". I'd much rather my pump work less hard and use less electricity over the life of the pool and am skeptical of all the 90s given most seem unnecessary.

 

[ajw22]

It is not optimum but you will never see the difference in actual operation.

Your heater bypass should use one diverter valve and a check valve so that no one can accidentally dead head the pump if one of the two bypass valves are not set properly. Read Heater Bypass - Further Reading

 

[Newdude]

switching from hard 90s to sweep 90s reduces head and increases efficiency -

How many hard 90s are in your house plumbing to all the faucets. Yeah.

Sweeps have more flow, but it's never appreciable. They're noticable in the miles and miles getting municipal water to your house (when applicable) or for drains which are gravity fed. They built pools for decades with hard 90s and nobody ever knew better. Yours is a simple setup and will have oodles of flow either way.

I also kinda chuckle at human nature being what it is. People worry about the pad because it's right there in their face, but they may have 3X more underground that they can't see.

 

[Jimrahbe]

The difference is quantified and you can tell the difference on your electric bill.".

S,

My IntelliFlo pump runs 24/7/365, mostly at 1200 RPM. It costs me less than $20 bucks a month to do this... And my pump is about 12 years old, and new pumps are much more energy efficient. How much could I possible save my replacing a few sharp 90 degree fittings???

See the following quote from the same thread by someone that "knows everything"...

The example shows a total system head loss difference of only 3.2 feet of head at 60 gpm.

That's a very minor difference.

In addition, a residential pool would rarely need to exceed 40 gpm.

At 40 gpm, the head loss difference drops to about 1.4 feet of head, which is insignificant.

Many pools can run at 20 gpm, which reduces the total head loss difference to about 0.35 feet.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bperry]

Found this post that shows switching from hard 90s to sweep 90s reduces head and increases efficiency - "the difference is quantified and you can tell the difference on your electric bill.". I'd much rather my pump work less hard and use less electricity over the life of the pool and am skeptical of all the 90s given most seem unnecessary.

If you read the details, the guys article just says that quote but doesn’t provide any details on how/what/why. Just saying reducing head loss saves money is too oversimplified. The replies after the post add some context that’s helpful.

The simple summary is that your system doesn’t need to be designed to push the maximum amount of water through at the fastest possible speed but that’s probably the only situation where you might care about headloss. You want to be pumping the minimum amount of water at the lowest possible pressure to do the job you’re asking because it takes exponentially less energy ($) to pump water slower than faster.

If you do decide to use sweep 90’s, make sure they aren’t DWV which aren’t designed for pressure. I’ve seen a few pictures where people made that mistake

 

[Bperry]

If you ask him to change anything, maybe ask to clean up the glue joints a bit better. Having smeared glue all over the joint is easy to prevent and looks much nicer if its wiped clean when doing the glue up.

 

[JamesW]

It is usually better to have a check valve coming out of the heater rather than a second Three-Way valve to prevent misconfiguration.

I would also want a Flow Switch added to prevent heater operation with no flow.

 

[JamesW]

In my opinion, it is ridiculous that heaters do not come with a real flow switch.

I got lucky...now I need help adding a flow switch

Evening, TFP World! We have an autocover that stays closed except when the pool is in use or needs to be left open to breath. Today, it was a beautiful day, so I left it open most of the day. I did not appreciate how much Crud was coming off the trees, and allowed both skimmer baskets to get...

www.troublefreepool.com

Heater Flow Switch - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[1poolman1]

My builder just started plumbing the equipment pad and I'm concerned about how many tight 90 degree turns are in the normal flow. I see 9 and counting: 3 from the pump output to the filter input, 6 from the filter output to the chlorinator, and I expect a few more are needed to get to the returns.

Is this good or bad? Should I ask the builder to change it?

It looks overly restrictive to me and doesn't look like the Jandy reference image attached.

I was expecting something like the Jandy reference with one 90 sweep from pump to filter, one 90 sweep from filter to heater, and maybe two 90 sweeps out of the heater. I like the 3-way bypasses the builder added but I expected them to be installed so normal flow goes straight through them and they only turn the flow 90 when used to bypass something. I tried to show that in the attached revised.jpg

While it would be nice to see it plumbed with all sweeps, I would be more concerned with that tablet feeder eventually destroying your heater, despite that check valve, that will fail and you won't know until the heater is damaged.
The amount of energy saved by using sweeps above ground would be minimal, especially since there are many more underground standard 90s installed, and you have a VSP that should be running long and slow most of the time.

 

[JamesW]

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[sande005]

..... I would be more concerned with that tablet feeder eventually destroying your heater, despite that check valve, that will fail and you won't know until the heater is damaged.
....

x2 on this! You are going down a road of high chemical expense, probable algae, and potential equipment problems with that tab feeder. Change orders can be a killer in a project, but changing to a salt water generator really, really should be considered very seriously. This from a 30 yr tab guy, who finally found the real answer to being trouble free.

Get rid of the filter bypass, although you do want an option to redirect to waste before it goes to the filter.
Is that a valve I spy on the filter drain plug? Is he trying to make money on markup on all the Jandy devices he can pack into one install???

 

[sporf]

that tablet feeder eventually destroying your heater, despite that check valve

Interesting. The check value is listed as “chemical resistant” - is that still expected to eventually fail? What is the alternative?

It is a saltwater generator pool, the tablet feeder is just a backup.

Feedback about a check valve instead of 3-way for the heater bypass is interesting, thanks to all who pointed it out.

 

[ajw22]

Interesting. The check value is listed as “chemical resistant” - is that still expected to eventually fail?

Yes.

Resistant means it fails eventually.

What is the alternative?

A SWG.

Salt Water Chlorine Generators

Salt Water Generators are designed to produce small amounts of chlorine continuously. This is perfect for day to day use and reduces work for the homeowner.

www.troublefreepool.com

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

The check value is listed as “chemical resistant” - is that still expected to eventually fail?

If you run the pump 24/7, then that will minimize the damage to the check valve.

Once the pump turns off, the chlorine begins to flood the system with super corrosive liquid with low pH and high FC.

 

[.ben]

Interesting. The check value is listed as “chemical resistant” - is that still expected to eventually fail? What is the alternative?

It is a saltwater generator pool, the tablet feeder is just a backup.

Feedback about a check valve instead of 3-way for the heater bypass is interesting, thanks to all who pointed it out.

I have a SWG but my PB also installed a tablet feeder "for free" which I thought I would use during the winter.

I've never used the tablet feeder, and I wish I didn't have it, as it's an unnecessary component which could eventually leak/fail. I'd ask your builder to remove it.

 

[sande005]

While unfamiliar with the one pictured, tablets contain some to a lot of "paste" as a binder. That will eventually gum up the feeder. For me, that meant either a new feeder after a season or two or a stock of spare parts always on hand, depending on brand. Far easier in the cold weather time to just have a floater in the pool with a few tabs in it.
Interesting that the SWCG isn't installed in the maze yet. I wonder how many more 90's, backflows, and valves he was planning to use for that.....

 

[1poolman1]

Interesting. The check value is listed as “chemical resistant” - is that still expected to eventually fail? What is the alternative?

It is a saltwater generator pool, the tablet feeder is just a backup.

Feedback about a check valve instead of 3-way for the heater bypass is interesting, thanks to all who pointed it out.

If you want to use tablets as a backup, get a floating dispenser that will add a small amount of chlorine whether the pump is running or not.
I will not install a heater unless a tab feeder is removed. I've seen too many get damaged, regardless of the steps taken to prevent damage. One lasted 6 months because the customer (not mine) had the feeder re-installed after I was done.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

A job using sweeps.