High Electricity Consumption

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JoyfulNoise said:
It’s just something you’ll have to experiment with. Keeping a tub at high temp is only going to be economical if it is well insulated and retains it heat. As an experiment you might try running it up to full temp and then kill the breaker. Then use the fancy-pants FLIR camera to see how the temperature drops. That will give you a good indication of how much heat loss is occuring. Ultimately your heater has a fixed amount of power so if the heat losses are high, then your heater has to run at full-tilt all the time to keep the temp up.
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I just shut off the circuit breaker. Outside air temp is 11 degrees and hot tub 103. Tomorrow morning I’ll flip the breaker back on and see what the hot tub water temp is. Any guesses what 10 or so hour heat loss will be? I’ll say the water temp tomorrow at 7am EST will be 92 degrees.
 
The cover on that tub is not something I've seen before, and wonder how well insulated it is (despite the IR image)

It is not as cold here as CT, but our energy cost is even higher. What usually works for us in the winter is:
  • turn the temp up to 104 about an hour before we want to get in, the temp has usually dropped to 97 or 98 since the previous day's use with no heating (night temps in the 30s)
  • turn the heat back down to 92 when we get in (running the heater is not going to make a significant difference during the 30 minutes we are using the tub)
  • repeat the next day
If we skip a day then the heater may not run for two days (hence setting the temp to 92 upon entering), and we'll need to turn up the temp more like 2 hours prior to use.
 
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jpk207 said:
Hi. This is my first month of usage with a brand new tub and it has increased my energy usage by 870kw.
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I don't want to sound sniffy about this, but it's important to keep the units straight. KiloWatts are power, not energy. Power X time gives you energy usage, hence kWh.

Our winter has been really mild so far, but the losses are of concern to me too. The exterior cladding was all pulled off of my tub in order to lower it into the hole I built for it in the deck, and I left the sides open while wringing out a few assorted leaks, both serious and not. Now that those are pretty much settled, I replaced the insulation, which consisted of eleven (11) panels of 1 1/2" "ISO" insulation, which is made for roofing (ISO is short for polyisocyanurate, which is - afaIk - the highest R-value solid foam insulation you can get, plus it's clad on both sides with aluminum foil). Those panels are press-fit between the wooden frame members. For anyone keeping count, the twelfth panel is where the electronics and heater are, so I can't do the same as with the other eleven - the factory just used a sheet of metalized bubble-wrap on the inside of the cladding there.

So, just out of curiosity, how's your box insulated?
 
It hit me overnight that I'd take pictures of the insides and go see what the salespeople have to say about it. Maybe you got a bad QC tub and they jump to replace it.
 
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dogsbody said:
I don't want to sound sniffy about this, but it's important to keep the units straight. KiloWatts are power, not energy. Power X time gives you energy usage, hence kWh.

Our winter has been really mild so far, but the losses are of concern to me too. The exterior cladding was all pulled off of my tub in order to lower it into the hole I built for it in the deck, and I left the sides open while wringing out a few assorted leaks, both serious and not. Now that those are pretty much settled, I replaced the insulation, which consisted of eleven (11) panels of 1 1/2" "ISO" insulation, which is made for roofing (ISO is short for polyisocyanurate, which is - afaIk - the highest R-value solid foam insulation you can get, plus it's clad on both sides with aluminum foil). Those panels are press-fit between the wooden frame members. For anyone keeping count, the twelfth panel is where the electronics and heater are, so I can't do the same as with the other eleven - the factory just used a sheet of metalized bubble-wrap on the inside of the cladding there.

So, just out of curiosity, how's your box insulated?
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If I understand the question “how’s my box insulated?” Properly……a photo will probably be the best answer. It’s spray foam. Keep in mind, it appears whoever did it was much more concerned about spraying the components than the actual shell of the tub.
IMG_3013.jpeg
 
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I have a TT250 and have been using it for the last 8 years. Out of all the hot tubs I've owned over the past 35 years, this one is the best by far. I only have mine running on 110v, but it's never cost me more than $30 a month to run (I've monitored it using an energy meter at different times of the year). Most of the year, it's less than $15. I keep mine at 102 in the colder months, and lower it to 98-99 during the summer.

The cover is what initially sold me, and is the best cover in the industry. It's the first hot tub I haven't had to replace the cover on within a couple of years.
 
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PoolBrews said:
I have a TT250 and have been using it for the last 8 years. Out of all the hot tubs I've owned over the past 35 years, this one is the best by far. I only have mine running on 110v, but it's never cost me more than $30 a month to run (I've monitored it using an energy meter at different times of the year). Most of the year, it's less than $15. I keep mine at 102 in the colder months, and lower it to 98-99 during the summer.

The cover is what initially sold me, and is the best cover in the industry. It's the first hot tub I haven't had to replace the cover on within a couple of years.
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That’s great to hear. I wonder why mine uses so much more power? I called my dealer about it the other day and mentioned the high power usage. I expected him to be shocked. He was not. That surprised me. I thought he would be very concerned. I’m not sure what to do at this point now that I’ve heard your experience.
 

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jpk207 said:
Here is a thermal image from right now. Look at all the heat in the corners. I don’t have access to those areas to try and insulate because of all the spray foam on the components.
View attachment 625442
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I will say that its quite the testament to that cover though!
My friend has a thermal thing they use for tracking deer - I may borrow it & see what mine looks like.
Its my understanding that those tubs have a solid bottom base so you can’t simply flip it over to access those areas correct?
 
Yeah I don’t think I can turn it upside down. I agree that the cover is probably not my problem. I have a bunch of other thermal images I took and some portions of the exterior of the hot tub are reading 60 degrees. The outside temp is 17. That tells me I have a major heat loss problem if the outside of the frame is warm to the touch at 60 degrees.

Ideally the manufacturer and place I bought the hot tub would care about this, but my sense is I am on my own. The question is, what’s my best way to re-insulate this thing?
 
Mdragger88 said:
Its my understanding that those tubs have a solid bottom base so you can’t simply flip it over to access those areas correct?
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Mine had a dozen holes that were hand grip sized and the rest of it had no access.
 
jpk207 said:
The question is, what’s my best way to re-insulate this thing?
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If i exhausted going after the sales people and manufacturer and accepted I'd void the warranty, I'd roto zip strategic holes in the bottom along the outside edge and fill it with spray foam.

But I'd push harder on the dealer and manufacturer first.
 
jpk207 said:
If my desired bathing temp is 103, I should try 99 as my standby temp and then an hour before usage turn it to 103? I’ll give that a try. What about all the different comments that maintaining a constant temp is better than changing it?
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My hot tub has a schedule function on it. I set when my normal usage will be. What hours during what days I normally use the tub.

The tub then makes sure that it is up to temp (103 F) during those hours. Outside of those hours it will drift down as much as 20 degrees (that is not adjustable) below the set point.
 
jpk207 said:
If I understand the question “how’s my box insulated?” Properly……a photo will probably be the best answer. It’s spray foam. Keep in mind, it appears whoever did it was much more concerned about spraying the components than the actual shell of the tub.
View attachment 625434
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Okay, so it appears there are a couple of different approaches to insulating these things. My Dynasty has the ISO sheets fit into the frame (as I described in my previous post) and an insignificant amount of foam sprayed in, mostly at the bottom. My bud (also in Calgary and here in the forum) has a 1995 Hot Springs Grandee that he says is extremely efficient, apparently completely foamed in as well as having a smaller circulation pump that runs a 100% duty cycle. The big tradeoff in filling the enclosure with foam is making serviceability an absolute nightmare.

But looking at yours, it seems to me that you could cut a set of sheet foam panels and press them into the frame (as in my case) and really maximize the insulation.
 
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jpk207 said:
Here is a thermal image from right now. Look at all the heat in the corners. I don’t have access to those areas to try and insulate because of all the spray foam on the components.
View attachment 625442
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YIKES 😱 That looks really bad. And 60F on the outside of the panel is definitely not good. I guarantee your power consumption is all in the heater simply trying to keep up with that heat loss.

Agree with others, the only fix is better insulation. Spray foaming the controls is idiotic on the manufacturers part. If you ever need to do fixes or repairs, you’re going to have to rip all that foam off possibly causing more damage.

I would definitely go back and at least try with the shop that sold you the tub. Give them a chance to do better. If they won’t, then you can either try to fix it yourself or offload it on eBay. Either way, you’re spending money to fix it or losing money to get rid of it.
 
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jpk207 said:
I called the manager of the store I bought it from, emailed him, and also submitted a support request, with photos and explanation…….pretty much crickets. So, I doubt they will own up to the terrible insulation process on my hot tub. Even still it seems like my usage is much higher than even the most poorly insulated hot tubs. I feel like something else could be causing it…..just not sure what.
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I would contact the manufacturer directly.
 
jpk207 said:
I just shut off the circuit breaker. Outside air temp is 11 degrees and hot tub 103. Tomorrow morning I’ll flip the breaker back on and see what the hot tub water temp is. Any guesses what 10 or so hour heat loss will be? I’ll say the water temp tomorrow at 7am EST will be 92 degrees.
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What was the morning water temperature after being off overnight?

jpk207 said:
This is a little spreadsheet I came up with as to what my usage probably had to be last month. I am in NE Connecticut nad my rates are some of the highest in the country around $.30 per kw all in.
View attachment 625409
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I could only wish for $0.30/kwh. We are now at $0.50/kwh.:mad:
 
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