Cloudy spa water

[sande005]

Well it has seemed to work for the last two years and I’m struggling with the test kits

Let's step back to this comment.
What are you having difficulty with? For now, let's just concentrate on getting you comfortable with testing for CYA and Free Chlorine.

Just to re-iterate, we have found repeatedly over many years and many pool stores that their testing is very suspect. In some instances, the manufacturers of their equipment note that the level of accuracy is far worse than compared to your Clear Choice kit. Some have inexperienced staff doing the procedure. The worst use it as solely a way to sell you their product.

In the photo of their test for CYA, they show a value of 50. The written note shows your test to be 35.
Your test in the kit is the same as we use in the States. You may have seen this, but here is Clear Choice's detailed "how to" instructions: How to test for Cyanuric Acid (CYA) levels – Clear Choice Labs
One other tip: As they note, having different amounts of light can change how well/how poorly you can see whether the image disappears. I find the easiest for me is to stand out in the full sun, but turn around so I am holding the tube in my shadow. Then the light levels are closer to the same from time to time. We recommend that if you are between lines, round up your answer to the next highest line. So if halfway between 30 and 40, call it 40 - not 35. That will give a bit of room for error, and not have any impact on what else you need to do using that result.

Your pool store will probably be testing indoors, which has VERY different lighting. Even if they have a fancy machine that uses its own light and senses the light level, it can then give different results than you get. Just like if you tested outside in the sun, and then did another indoors - due to the light, it would seem different. Hence why doing it under the same conditions each time is needed. Look at the chart above, the targets for 40 versus 50 overlap a bit. So your result of 40 is not much different from theirs. Who is more "right"? From decades of experience with 10's of thousands of pool owners here, we can be VERY confident to state that the odds are yours are more accurate. Despite the seeming variability that your own testing can have (especially when new at it).

Did Clear Choice include a sample of pool water to use? In some of their products they do. This has been pre-set to give a value of 50. You use that to check yourself on what it should look like when doing your sample. Contact them about getting one, if needed.

 

[robaldo]

Thanks I have those instructions when I do the spa i tip the entire contents of the mixing tube into the viewing tube and I can still see the icon it’s what I do next that is the issue. Do I start over again and keep putting more of the mixing tube into the viewing tube ?

Is it possible I have 0 stabiliser in there as when I drained the spa the results said the stabiliser was fine

 

[Texas Splash]

I can still see the icon it’s what I do next that is the issue.

If you can see the dot with the tube full, it means you have little to no stabilizer. If you recently changed the water and did not add stabilizer, then it's probably zero as fresh water doesn't' have any stabilizer in it. In a hot tub or stand-alone spa, you could add some trichlor or dichlor powder which has stabilizer mixed in it with chlorine. Or you could add stabilizer separately to get it to the 20-30 ppm right away.

 

[robaldo]

Should I add 57g of stabiliser as well as the chlorine and check tomorrow and see what results I get ?

 

[sande005]

?? Previously you noted the CYA was 35 (we call it 40) by your test, and the pool store said 50. Did you change the water after those tests?

If you did, and your CYA is now 0, what is your FC? Also 0? Is the pool still cloudy?

The Dichlor you use also adds CYA, and fairly quickly - so we don't want you to go too crazy by adding extra stabilizer until we can decide how much Dichlor to add. Adding extra might shorten the time until you have to change the water again because it got too high. Some is good, so depending on the answers about CYA and FC, we might have you add a little - but we need to know both the current CYA and the current FC. It might be, if the water is cloudy, we might have to have you add more than normal for a few days, and that would build up the CYA quicker.

 

[robaldo]

I have a dual zone and it’s the spa that I think is 0 cya the pool was 35. The tests at the pool shop were yesterday but drained the water a few weeks ago.How much stabiliser do I need to put in the spa to make it ok ?

 

[robaldo]

I put around 35 grams of stabiliser and a heaped tea spoon of chlorine in. Guess I’ll see how that goes. How long until we can go for a swim when chemicals have just be put in ?

 

[sande005]

I put around 35 grams of stabiliser and a heaped tea spoon of chlorine in. Guess I’ll see how that goes. How long until we can go for a swim when chemicals have just be put in ?

I guess we will. That method is called "dump and pray".
I flailed around in your pool question thread and do not have a high confidence as to how much DiChlor is in a given volume measure. So won't even hazard a guess as to what effect it may have.
It would be nice if you could weigh some - a 1/2 cup or 1 cup and tell us how many grams it ends up being, if you will continue to be using volume measurements...
But it sounds like you have a scale, so should use it for that, instead.

35 grams of stabilizer, if you used Pool Math, would show that your new level may be around 7. Very low if it was 0 before. It probably will not be discernable when doing the test.

You can swim now.

 

[robaldo]

I put in heaped tea spoon of chlorine and around 30grams of stabiliser and it worked pretty good the spa is clear now. It’s the pool that is a bit green now maybe I did the cya test wrong on that one.

 

[sande005]

I sympathize. You have two separate bodies of water that you are trying to maintain, are new to all this, and even just one new one can seem overwhelming at first. And you have double!

The good news is that you use the exact same methods for caring for each.
The bad news is that each will have its own variable needs and wants. Kind of like having two kids....

Given the added complexities with two, I highly encourage you to buy the paid version of Pool Math. It is only $8 (USD) per year. It will then have much better storing of your history, and you can track the two things separately.

The following are my suggestions for the paid version - it has been too long since I used the free one, so some or all of what I mention may not be available in that.

With Pool Math, using the top left 3 line menu, you can set up two pools - say "Spa" and "Pool". When doing chem readings and adding things, you do have to go the the 3 lines first, and select "Switch Pool" to get to the one you are working with (if it is not showing the name on the main screen already). That will alleviate a lot of confusion over what is going on with which. You can even add your own notes "Water cloudy", "Slightly green", "Looks great", etc.

Second - after entering your readings in Pool Math, whether doing just one, a couple, or all the tests, make sure to hit the "+" button at the bottom and pick "Log Test Results". This saves it for looking back later, and so we can see it here. I think you have found the similar button for "Add Chemicals" where you can enter and save how much of what you actually added. This will help us (a LOT) see what is going on, and you too have a reference to look back at if something is puzzling you.

And to restate - If you will be continuing with using DiChlor, PLEASE use the weight in grams. If you like using teaspoons and tablespoons to measure, that is fine - but you will have to figure out what each one weighs to enter the amount correctly in Pool Math. And if we advise we will be telling you an amount in grams, and you will have to convert that to tablespoons, cups, etc.

 

[robaldo]

I sympathize. You have two separate bodies of water that you are trying to maintain, are new to all this, and even just one new one can seem overwhelming at first. And you have double!

The good news is that you use the exact same methods for caring for each.
The bad news is that each will have its own variable needs and wants. Kind of like having two kids....

Given the added complexities with two, I highly encourage you to buy the paid version of Pool Math. It is only $8 (USD) per year. It will then have much better storing of your history, and you can track the two things separately.

The following are my suggestions for the paid version - it has been too long since I used the free one, so some or all of what I mention may not be available in that.

With Pool Math, using the top left 3 line menu, you can set up two pools - say "Spa" and "Pool". When doing chem readings and adding things, you do have to go the the 3 lines first, and select "Switch Pool" to get to the one you are working with (if it is not showing the name on the main screen already). That will alleviate a lot of confusion over what is going on with which. You can even add your own notes "Water cloudy", "Slightly green", "Looks great", etc.

Second - after entering your readings in Pool Math, whether doing just one, a couple, or all the tests, make sure to hit the "+" button at the bottom and pick "Log Test Results". This saves it for looking back later, and so we can see it here. I think you have found the similar button for "Add Chemicals" where you can enter and save how much of what you actually added. This will help us (a LOT) see what is going on, and you too have a reference to look back at if something is puzzling you.

And to restate - If you will be continuing with using DiChlor, PLEASE use the weight in grams. If you like using teaspoons and tablespoons to measure, that is fine - but you will have to figure out what each one weighs to enter the amount correctly in Pool Math. And if we advise we will be telling you an amount in grams, and you will have to convert that to tablespoons, cups, etc.

Yeah I have been changing the litres every time but once I get the hang of the testing I will buy the full version. I logged what I put in the pool yesterday

 

[Mdragger88]

To clarify- the spa and pool are continuously using up fc as it oxidizes the contaminants in the water. When you allow it to go below minimum for your cya you’re getting behind the 8ball and its hard to play catch up.
poolmath effects of adding (in the hamburger menu)
will tell you how much cya each dose of dichlor adds. (It’s roughly 1ppm per every 1ppm of fc added)
Once cya is 30/40 ppm you need to switch to liquid chlorine or you will end up with too much cya and the proper
FC/CYA Levels will be hard to maintain.
Your dichlor will last indefinitely if kept dry and you will need it occasionally to top up your cya.
The only dry chlorine product without cya is cal hypo- this is stabilized with calcium which will build up and cause scaling so its not recommended.
You want to be sure to maintain fc above minimum for your cya at all times in both pool & spa lest nasties will proliferate rapidly.


It is safe for fc to be anywhere between minimum and slam level for your cya so no need to attempt to ride minimum. Fc gets consumed quickly in a small body of water when bathers are in the mix so dose high enough that you don’t fall below minimum before you check the fc and dose again.
Your frequent fc testing before and after use and during standby times will guide you as to the different fc demands required by your habits so you can dose proactively. Aiming for high target as shown on the chart is a good starting point.
Skin, ear, & lung infections, & person to person transmission of pathogens are a very real risk in under sanitized water.

 

[robaldo]

Working out what to put in is going to be the interesting but I’m clueless and just been going by what the pool shop has said. Getting liquid chlorine in Australia is apparently hard to find. What’s better diplor or stabilised Chlorine ?

Do I really need to put chlorine in every day ?

 

[sande005]

No idea where in "vic" you are. Randomly searching a couple of stores near Melbourne, I found this one: 15L Liquid Chlorine
The "PoolWerx" chain, at least on line, does not show liquid as an option. But you might call to make sure. Here in the States, some of the stores near me do not advertise it, but have it.
I only checked those two. There are likely others that carry it.
These guys will ship, although costs might then make it high. https://www.bunnings.com.au/hy-clor-5l-liquid-chlorine_p3090280

 

[alexmaras]

Bunnings will stock liquid chlorine in most places, as will virtually any pool store in Australia. My local pool stores (Perth) do a cheaper price if you bring one of the 20L tubs back in. They're big blue tubs with a handle on top.

If you're changing the litre values each time in PoolMath, you'll definitely want to add the second pool in there to keep them separate. The calculations in PoolMath on "how much to add" are based on the values that have been previously entered when you did a test, so having the two bodies of water recorded in the same place will really quickly lead to errors.

It's all daunting at first, but I promise it gets easier quickly. If you start testing and adding every day, you'll quickly learn when things are and aren't changing. The most important thing to start with is the CYA and Free Chlorine balance. That has to be maintained, if your Chlorine is dropping to zero you're providing a foothold to algae and other bugs. Once they take hold, it's much more work to recover.

 

[sande005]

DiChlor is stabilized chlorine.
There is also Calcium Hypochlorite. It does not have stabilizer. BUT, it adds calcium to the pool, which over time also builds up and can cause hard water deposits, and at high levels damage the equipment. So you'll also have to drain and refill periodically to get rid of it.
Once you learn the usage that is typical for your spa and pool, you might be able to get away with adding chlorine every other day. But for now, it will be a daily chore.

 

[Mdragger88]

Working out what to put in is going to be the interesting but I’m clueless and just been going by what the pool shop has said.

You need to give the pool/spa what it needs based on your testing not just some arbitrary amount someone told you.

Getting liquid chlorine in Australia is apparently hard to find. What’s better diplor or stabilised Chlorine ?

Dichlor is stabilized chlorine-
Liquid chlorine is sodium hypochlorite- aka - bleach. Unadulterated household bleach will work fine of you are unable to find dedicated pool liquid chlorine.
So long as it is completely plain- no splashless, no scents, no fabric conditioners, no cloromax technology.

Do I really need to put chlorine in every day ?

More than likely yes.
You may also elect to dose a bit higher after use to cover your standby needs for a couple days until you tend to the spa/pool again. Either way you need to maintain fc ABOVE minimum for your cya at all times.

 

[sande005]

To sum up:
Your pool and spa each use up a different amount of chlorine every day. Mostly due to sunlight, but also due to things that want to grow, and organics from users, the environment, etc. By itself, Chlorine can be used up within as little as an hour or two just by sunlight. Then bad things WILL grow.

CYA Stabilizer holds some chlorine in reserve, so helps to keep the levels from dropping quickly. It is only a mild assist, and can't be counted on alone over time. It does enable one to use higher amounts of chlorine, giving more time before the levels drop too low. In practice, this means a day, rather than in a couple of hours. More CYA means you must add more Chlorine to maintain a like level of effectiveness. CYA never goes away, Once it gets too high, the amount of Chlorine you must add gets to be very high and costly. Then the water must be drained and replaced.
If you add too little Cl, or not often enough, then things grow in the water. Adding too small amounts afterwards means it gets used up very quickly, even with CYA, and things start growing again. So you must add the right amount, on the right schedule. That generally means daily, and knowing how much based on a test.

To add Chlorine, which must be tested for before adding (so you know "how much") there are only a few choices:

• DiChlor (aka Stabilized Chlorine Powder). This also has CYA in it, so your level keeps going up. The more you add, the more that must be added later. Minimum testing for CYA should be at least weekly for each body of water.
• TriChlor - sold as tablets or pucks, put in a device to float in the water, that lets them slowly dissolve. Just like DiChlor, they add CYA. Will extend the time you need to replace them, but in small bodies of water like yours, it is very hard to prevent them from adding too much and changes in CL levels can be slow to happen. A Spa is way to small to even consider their use.
• CalHypo (Calcium Hypochlorite), sometimes sold as "Pool Shock" as a powder. Does not have Stabilizer, so your CYA level won't change. BUT it will increase Calcium Hardness, that also never leaves unless you replace the water. If it goes too high build up and damage to equipment can happen. Therefore, testing for CH needed every week. Since CYA won't change, you won't have to keep increasing the amount added each time, only replace what naturally gets used up. You may then get a longer time before the water has to be replaced due to high CH.
• Liquid Chlorine (Bleach). Comes in different strengths. Only chlorine, so never an increasing amount of CYA or CH. If added in the right amounts, on the right schedule, you never need to drain and replace the water.

NEVER combine any of the above together in the same container. Adding at different times to the pool or spa is fine. You could use DiChor until the CYA gets to a good, but not too high, level. Then switch to CalHypo (since you like powders) and use only that until CH also gets to a good and not too high amount. Or skip the CalHypo and go directly to Liquid.
Most keep it simple - after a fresh fill, add enough pure Stabilizer to get to the desired level. Then use only Liquid from then on.

No other alternatives* to daily testing FC and adding Chlorine, to start. As we noted, once you have a history of how your pool and spa behave, you might be able to get by with every other day. But don't assume, as you chance exposing users to unsanitary conditions, the water going cloudy, or the pool/spa turning green. Start doing the daily FC testing and adding now. After a couple of weeks, and being able to see your separate history for each body of water, we can better advise if you can lighten the workload a little.

Yes, frustrating that it was an unknown commitment in owning a pool/spa. Just like getting two puppies, that must be fed every day, for forever.




*OK, I exaggerated - there is one possible alternative. You MIGHT be able to install a salt water chlorine generator that actually makes chlorine out of a low amount of salt you add, once, to your water. That cuts out needing to add on a daily basis. Once running, you may only need to test one or two times a week for each. But unknow if that is even available for your specialized pool/spa combination. You would need two - one for each. And they can be expensive to get installed, although over years they will save you money in chemicals.

 

[robaldo]

Thanks for everyone’s help I just did a test on the pool i am still having problems with the chlorine i think I’m testing it wrong or I actually do have no chlorine in there
Cya is 35 again ph7.6 alk 100
Should I put in what pool math says ?

 

[sande005]

Remember that if the CYA reading is between lines, always go to the next highest for your result. So what looks to be 35 should be counted as 40.
Don't add any stablaizer. You will be doing that anyway when adding Dichlor. You'll be at or above target for the CYA after only three or so days, if you have to add Dichlor every day.