Electric Shock Feeling

[HofftotheE]

Hi all,
We are having an electric shock feeling in our saltwater inground pool, especially if anyone has an open cut.
If you are in the water and there is water on the concrete next to the pool and you put your hand out and touch it while in the water you feel a tingle on your hand. Same goes for if you have one foot in and one foot out. The foot out will feel a tingle/shock.
I have read a bit about it and from what I can discern it seems to be an issue with bonding.
How do I verify this? Whom do I hire to take care of this?
Is this safe to swim in while we wait for a professional assessment?
Any and all advice is welcome.

 

[JohnT]

Welcome to TFP!

No, it is not safe to swim.

Unfortunately, professional help is difficult to find due to lack of experience, and retrofitting protection is difficult. Many builders leave out bonding grids or wires from the concrete because the don’t think it conducts electricity.

There are many posts here about the issue. Measuring the voltage and determining if it’s still there when your main breaker is off at the house panel are two important first steps.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Here is on ongoing thread about a member chasing down such a problem…

Shock/Tingle getting into/out of pool

I've read about this issue on here and other boards. I have the issue myself. The main location of the shock/tingle typically is at one handrail when getting into- out of the water at the steps. (never had anyone say they felt it at the ladder on the other end). I have felt it myself a...

www.troublefreepool.com

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[DonnaJjean]

Welcome to TFP!

No, it is not safe to swim.

Unfortunately, professional help is difficult to find due to lack of experience, and retrofitting protection is difficult. Many builders leave out bonding grids or wires from the concrete because the don’t think it conducts electricity.

There are many posts here about the issue. Measuring the voltage and determining if it’s still there when your main breaker is off at the house panel are two important first steps.

And if there is voltgage when the main breaker is off...what then. I have the same problem. Have had the power company and hired a laerge electrical company who tested for 4 hours. I have so many readings, my head is spinning. Knowing nothing about electricity, I keep turning to an electrician tohelp me figure it all out. The voltage at the neutral is what has them stymied. And, of coure the other suggestion, remove the concrete and do it all over again ujp to 2024 codes.
I did this also in 2017 for the same reason. Any input? I have all kinds of reports and documents. which I could attach but I'm not sure how.

 

[ajw22]

Finding the stray voltage is not as important as getting a solid equipotential bonding all around the pool with everything a person can touch.

With correct equipotential bonding stray voltages are not felt.

I would put my time and money into bonding including copper wire mesh under the deck...

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[DonnaJjean]

I appreciate any and all information. The amount of $spent on this pool make me want to shovel it all in. Unfortunately I like my pool too much.
In order to do what you are suggesting is to once again rip it all out (which I did in 2017 for the same reason. Is there any other way ? Secondly, It's very difficult to find anyone who is willing to take on this project. I've called numerous contractors who say, unless its to fill it in and install new completely...not interested. Where can I find that contactor who will say "yes"?

 

[ajw22]

In order to do what you are suggesting is to once again rip it all out (which I did in 2017 for the same reason. Is there any other way ?

Since I do not know what you have or what was done I cannot say.

The deck perimeter bonding can be expensive and getting it tied to the pool shell and water.

You really have to analyze your current situation for each structure that requires bonding and fix it incrementally.

Secondly, It's very difficult to find anyone who is willing to take on this project. I've called numerous contractors who say, unless its to fill it in and install new completely...not interested. Where can I find that contactor who will say "yes"?

This is not profitable work where success can be guaranteed. You need to GC it and bring in subcontractors to do pieces at a time.

 

[JohnT]

And if there is voltgage when the main breaker is off...what then. I have the same problem. Have had the power company and hired a laerge electrical company who tested for 4 hours. I have so many readings, my head is spinning. Knowing nothing about electricity, I keep turning to an electrician tohelp me figure it all out. The voltage at the neutral is what has them stymied. And, of coure the other suggestion, remove the concrete and do it all over again ujp to 2024 codes.
I did this also in 2017 for the same reason. Any input? I have all kinds of reports and documents. which I could attach but I'm not sure how.

Contact your power utility and even the landline phone company if they haven’t gone fully digital in your area.

 

[ajw22]

Here is a thread where the OP ran some temporary bonding wires that got rid of the tingles. It showed the areas where the bonding was insufficient.

Shock/Tingle getting into/out of pool

I believe you tried to measure resistance from that wire back to the railing but it sounded like you were not convinced that you did it right. When you put the meter in ohms mode, touch the leads together and make sure it reads 0 ohms. This will tell you the meter is setup properly. There is...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[DonnaJjean]

Since I do not know what you have or what was done I cannot say.

The deck perimeter bonding can be expensive and getting it tied to the pool shell and water.

You really have to analyze your current situation for each structure that requires bonding and fix it incrementally.



This is not profitable work where success can be guaranteed. You need to GC it and bring in subcontractors to do pieces at a time.

When you say each structure are your referring to pump and heater? Other than those, all the wiring is under the concrete which I am getting estimates now to tear out. Then an electrician/pool company to install a grid. Don't know how I can fix it incrementally. To me it seems like I have no choice...all or nothing. In 2017, all the concrete was removed from my pool 4 feet from the edge. It was rewired and new concrete was poured. Will try to attach photo.

 

[mas985]

Do you have any pictures with the rebar and/or grid being bonded right before they poured the new concrete?

They may have neglected to do so which is why you are getting the shocks.

It is fairly common in many parts of the country to encounter NEV (neutral to earth voltage). Most common is caused by the power company and they will have no interest in eliminating unless it is over their threshold (~5v). The only way to eliminate the effect is proper bonding.

The second most common source is the premises neutral having a poor connection to the power co neutral but this can be easily identified by cutting the power to the home and seeing if the voltage on the neutral still exists (power co. issue) or not (premise issue). This one can usually be fixed.

 

[ajw22]

You want this copper bonding mesh under the deck for the 3 foot perimeter bonding.

CMI Copper Bonding Grid & Kit | Avoid Stray Voltage

Consolidated Manufacturing’s Equibond® Equipotential Bonding Grid is tested and proven protection against stray voltage. This product is made from exothermically welded #8 Solid Copper. There’s also 12’ spacing on the grid which is tested and proven protective.

www.eztestpools.com

Run temporary bonding wires above ground until you find the connections that no longer give you shocks. Then you will know what areas need to be fixed permanently.

 

[DonnaJjean]

You want this copper bonding mesh under the deck for the 3 foot perimeter bonding.

CMI Copper Bonding Grid & Kit | Avoid Stray Voltage

Consolidated Manufacturing’s Equibond® Equipotential Bonding Grid is tested and proven protection against stray voltage. This product is made from exothermically welded #8 Solid Copper. There’s also 12’ spacing on the grid which is tested and proven protective.

www.eztestpools.com

Run temporary bonding wires above ground until you find the connections that no longer give you shocks. Then you will know what areas need to be fixed permanentl

 

[DonnaJjean]

Just so that understand....three foot out from the edge of the pool...or three feet out from the edge andf start there?

 

[ajw22]

Just so that understand....three foot out from the edge of the pool...or three feet out from the edge andf start there?

680.26(B)(2) Perimeter Surfaces.

Revised code language now allows a copper grid for equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces adjacent to a pool.

www.electricallicenserenewal.com

 

[DonnaJjean]

As always, thank you. Have your ever heard of using ground rods around the perimeter of the pool?

 

[ajw22]

Have your ever heard of using ground rods around the perimeter of the pool?

For what purpose?

Ground rods do not implement equipotential bonding.

 

[DonnaJjean]

For what purpose?

Ground rods do not implement equipotential bonding.

Had another mason out. Looked at concrete pool deck and said it was a shame to rip it out all over again. Said he knew someone with same problem. They used grounding rods and that solved the problem. He said they drilled holes around the perimeter.

 

[ajw22]

Had another mason out. Looked at concrete pool deck and said it was a shame to rip it out all over again. Said he knew someone with same problem. They used grounding rods and that solved the problem. He said they drilled holes around the perimeter.

Electrically I do not understand how it would work but some believe voodoo works too.

 

[proavia]

Had another mason out. Looked at concrete pool deck and said it was a shame to rip it out all over again. Said he knew someone with same problem. They used grounding rods and that solved the problem. He said they drilled holes around the perimeter.

He may be an excellent mason, but he's not a qualified pool electrician who understands how equipotential bonding works.