Shock/Tingle getting into/out of pool
- Thread starter Barry321
- Start date
- Nov 23, 2014
- 213
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
For the resistance tests to be meaningful you'll first have to disconnect the temporary array from both rails and the ladder, but still connected to the pump. Then measure resistance in ohms in five places: 1) From array to right rail 2) From array to left rail 3) From array to ladder 4) From array to coping and 5) From array to #8 wire at junction box (with that Jbox wire disconnected from other wires).
We've posted several meter tips, not sure it's worth repeating that. Or go to youtube and watch videos after searching "how to test resistance" such as this one or this other one and/or view the one I posted awhile back
BTW when you refer to right and left rail is that as viewed from the deck or from the pool perspective? Just a curiosity.
We've posted several meter tips, not sure it's worth repeating that. Or go to youtube and watch videos after searching "how to test resistance" such as this one or this other one and/or view the one I posted awhile back
BTW when you refer to right and left rail is that as viewed from the deck or from the pool perspective? Just a curiosity.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,073
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Besides the temporary bond, I would also disconnect the pump from the bonding to avoid NEV causing any issues with the measurement. That connection is not important for resistance measurement anyway.
Also, I would add measurements between each railing/ladder. If each is connected to the other, then the issue may not be the anchors but somewhere else down the line.
Also, I would add measurements between each railing/ladder. If each is connected to the other, then the issue may not be the anchors but somewhere else down the line.
Last edited:
- Nov 23, 2014
- 213
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Great points, indeed the pump need not be tied in for the tests. If our earlier conclusions are correct, what @Barry321 calls the "right rail" will show moderate to high resistance, as will the ladder (edit: and the rail to rail). Have not tested the niche yet, and the coping is questionable. The build picture shows the bonding wire alongside the coping, but who knows what if any connection there was, and/or whether the coping is a contiguous run and all connected together. I'm thinking metal coping should have more than one tie-in anyway due to the distance but I've not checked requirements about that.
But I can see the wire running out from under the concrete pool deck and hooked it to my pump myself (along with connecting it to my new temporary bare copper wire I've been using to test everything).
Are you saying maybe that's broken or damaged under the concrete or maybe not hooked up well to a spot on that side of the pool?
- May 3, 2007
- 18,073
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Right. If the railings and ladder are connected to one another but just not connected to that wire coming out the deck, it could be an easier fix depending on where it is broken.
The resistance test just confirms where the break point might be and what needs to be done to rebond everything.
I am going to try to do this today. I haven't had time yet.For the resistance tests to be meaningful you'll first have to disconnect the temporary array from both rails and the ladder, but still connected to the pump. Then measure resistance in ohms in five places: 1) From array to right rail 2) From array to left rail 3) From array to ladder 4) From array to coping and 5) From array to #8 wire at junction box (with that Jbox wire disconnected from other wires).
We've posted several meter tips, not sure it's worth repeating that. Or go to youtube and watch videos after searching "how to test resistance" such as this one or this other one and/or view the one I posted awhile back
BTW when you refer to right and left rail is that as viewed from the deck or from the pool perspective? Just a curiosity.
I was looking at some pictures from about 3-4 years ago last night and saw several where friends were standing on my steps and holding onto the handrail- just standing in the water talking (feet in water, hand or arm on handrail) and they never mentioned anything about a shock of any kind.
That makes me scratch my head. I don't understand how if it was bonded in the first place it wouldn't have caused some sort of issues then.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,073
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Maybe the NEV was not as bad back then. Sometimes it can become worse when industrial or commercial locations are added to your section of the grid depending on the equipment they use. Any large construction projects near you during the last 3 years?
The other possibility is that the connection to the railings/ladder may have become damaged somehow between then and low.
- Nov 23, 2014
- 213
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I think everything @mas985 wrote above is indeed possible, even likely. And there are many more possible explanations. Another is the fact that not every person will offer the same resistance to current flow. Heck, we vary all day long depending on the condition of our bodies, electrolytes in our systems, etc. Even if two people had identical composition and size, one person might be more sensitive to the current flow and notice it more than someone else. Body size may well impact the "feeling" too. Right now I'm running about 2Megohms from finger to forehead,, 3 Megohms from right finger to left finger, etc. A smaller person might well feel the shock before a larger person, or even vice versa depending on whether we're sweating and all the aforementioned factors. It goes on and on.
In addition to variable NEV, you have another problem because all this could be intermittent. If the bonding connections were made by the builder but they became corroded, your tests on one day may be different than some other day, with variables including the weather, the extent to which the concrete deck is damp or wet below the surface (since all concrete is somewhat porous), vibration, you name it. Through voltage tests we already proved the ladder and one rail are not bonded - at least at the time of the tests. Now that you've waited a week or two to run the resistance tests, it won't surprise me at all if your new tests contradict some of the old conclusions because a corroded or otherwise intermittent connection may change at any moment for a dozen reasons. In other words if the rails appear bonded now (or the ladder for that matter) we already know they were not bonded awhile back, so they all need to be bonded. To my way of thinking, the niche is the only unknown. And as posted before it's really simple to tie in the niche bonding wire with a new & proper Jbox, so you would be done at that point!
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We have the same problem. Have been dealing with this since August. Didn’t use pool either. Have current on our neutral with meter removed. Two electricians said call power company. Power company came out and said it was with what they consider it to be normal. Measured 5 volts ac from water to concrete pool deck. Removed grounding conductors from around the pool and it went away. First time power company was out measured 1 volt at stairs. Then .08 volts and .03 volts around the pool. Hit my first estimate of 15,000 $ to rip out concrete and install equipotential grid which does not guarantee the problem will be solved. Now I contacted the NJ public Utilities in Trenton. Haven’t heard anything yet. Please know this is my second go round with same problem. In 2017 we removed all the concrete and had it redone. Now seven years later, the exact same thing. Is it cheaper to fill it in?
.4 amps +- on neutral. Attempted to measure current at the meter pan but could not get enough access to neutral conductor with pan energized. This is from a report from an electrical contracting company.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,073
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Those are symptoms of Neutral to Earth Voltage (NEV) and it comes from the power company and they unfortunately, they usually consider 5 volts as normal so there is going to be no help for that.
The solution is to fix the bonding of the pool area.
Are you sure the bonding did not come loose from the deck? Do you know where the bonding wire enters the deck area?
Also, you should stick with a single thread instead of posting to this one.
Electric Shock Feeling
He may be an excellent mason, but he's not a qualified pool electrician who understands how equipotential bonding works. From everything I have read..old threads. New threads…. Comes down to one thing…. Rip it up a second time and put in those new grids and pray!
www.troublefreepool.com
No.
Going to have an electrician remove some of my concrete decking this winter and try to get things fixed.
I'm back. No changes to my pool yet.
For kicks, I went out today and took my voltage meter and checked out the water- one probe in water, one probe on handrail- measured around 0.024. - both rails measured about the same.
That wasn't the case when I last measured it (above posts) at the end of the summer and into the Fall of 2024. No changes since then.
Have no idea why suddenly the voltage is much less.
For kicks, I went out today and took my voltage meter and checked out the water- one probe in water, one probe on handrail- measured around 0.024. - both rails measured about the same.
That wasn't the case when I last measured it (above posts) at the end of the summer and into the Fall of 2024. No changes since then.
Have no idea why suddenly the voltage is much less.
- Nov 23, 2014
- 213
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I think reasons for the change, i.e. reasons for variable test results, were fairly well documented in posts #188 & #189 above.
On top of the above ressons, the season is likely contributing also. There is way less power surging through the area right now so if it's a neighborhood bleed off / NEV issue, it may have temporarily fixed itself. Once everyone has their ACs blasting all day, it could be right back.
I spent 25 years finding stray voltage in a different industry and often saw it spike in the late afternoon / evening. It would barely read on the meter during the day but once everybody came home and turned on the oven / heat / laundry it would spike.
Try testing at 5 and 7 pm and see if you see any rise.
I spent 25 years finding stray voltage in a different industry and often saw it spike in the late afternoon / evening. It would barely read on the meter during the day but once everybody came home and turned on the oven / heat / laundry it would spike.
Try testing at 5 and 7 pm and see if you see any rise.