Between a rock and an algae place

[DMS2014]

UPDATED to say this: The SWG runs from 9 to 4 at 2500 and the rest of the time at 1875. Does this affect the amount of time or the calculations? Bc I am not quite clear on this pool math thing. I do have the app but my head starts to spin.


So I am frustrated. Tested water 3 days ago and CL was 7. Tested today and it was 2 and we have algae. I dumped in a whole bottle of CL and it was 7 an hour later.) I can see it on the lights. However, I have a salt pool. BUT I find this pool a PITA to maintain with the constant high pH and the frequent additions of CL I have to add bc our SWG can’t seem to keep up. It’s at 70% right now. The pumps run 12 hours a day with the SWG pump time from 9 to 4. This is what the pool builder set it at. It “used” to be fine. It’s not fine. I was recommended to get the Pentair BioShield I read some old posts of ‘17 and ‘18 saying it’s not recommended. This year we are also having trouble with our CYA. We have been just pouring the stuff in and it still won’t go above 45 *as of today. Idk what gives but this pool is NOT trouble free! It’s starting to be a lot of work.

 

[JJ_Tex]

You are only making 1.9 FC per day, which likely is well below your daily demand.

In the least, I would have your SWG on for 12 hours like your pump so you can make 3.2 FC. You have a variable speed pump, why not run it 24/7?

If you have pool math you can use the Effects of Adding to calculate how much chlorine you will add to your pool by playing around with the % and run times. I would shoot for making 3-4 FC per day as we creep into summer.

Once you get that figured out, post up a full set of numbers with your TF 100. I would also do an OCLT to check and make sure you do not have algae brewing.

 

[HermanTX]

With a SWCG run time of 7 hrs and 70% for 19k gals the SWCG will produce 2ppm of FC. In Houston, I am losing 2ppm per day and my CYA is at 70.
You do not state what your CYA is, but it should be in range of 70-80.
You have a VS pump - is there a reason you are not running it longer? I run 24/7 and my SWCG at 40% but a smaller pool.
I would set the pump and SWCG to run at least 14 hr - that would get you 4ppm of FC over a 24 period at 70% setting. Ideally you should run even longer.
Set a longer run time for the SWCG and confirm what CYA level. Then add LC to raise to 9ppm of FC and then let the SWCG take over with 4ppm per day as a minimum output.

Suggest you download the
PoolMath app as it can help you set up the SWCG output and pump times.

 

[proavia]

Post a full set of current test results from your TF-100.
Also post the salt content from a drop based salt test (K-1766).

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Salt
Water temperature

Or you can post them in PoolMath and then share yout PoolMath logs to your forum account.

Suggest you do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to confirm you don't have a nascent algae bloom.

Once we see a full set of test results and know whether you passed of failed the OCLT, we can provide further guidance.

 

[Newdude]

+1 to all above. Your cell will make about 9.3 FC in 24 hours. If your pool is telling you that you need more FC, run it longer. Don't get hung up on what it was set at previously. You'll need to adjust it upward as the season progresses to the mid point, then you'll spend the back half of the season adjusting it down at times.

After clearing up the current situation, of course.

How long are you giving the CYA to register ?

Liquid or granuals ?

How are you adding it ?

*always round CYA up. It's 50.

 

[DMS2014]

With a SWCG run time of 7 hrs and 70% for 19k gals the SWCG will produce 2ppm of FC. In Houston, I am losing 2ppm per day and my CYA is at 70.
You do not state what your CYA is, but it should be in range of 70-80.
You have a VS pump - is there a reason you are not running it longer? I run 24/7 and my SWCG at 40% but a smaller pool.
I would set the pump and SWCG to run at least 14 hr - that would get you 4ppm of FC over a 24 period at 70% setting. Ideally you should run even longer.
Set a longer run time for the SWCG and confirm what CYA level. Then add LC to raise to 9ppm of FC and then let the SWCG take over with 4ppm per day as a minimum output.

Suggest you download the
PoolMath app as it can help you set up the SWCG output and pump times.

I stated that my CYA was 45 yesterday. We have been trying to raise it since we opened the pool. We just keep adding and it creeps…..

 

[DMS2014]

+1 to all above. Your cell will make about 9.3 FC in 24 hours. If your pool is telling you that you need more FC, run it longer. Don't get hung up on what it was set at previously. You'll need to adjust it upward as the season progresses to the mid point, then you'll spend the back half of the season adjusting it down at times.

After clearing up the current situation, of course.

How long are you giving the CYA to register ?

Liquid or granuals ?

How are you adding it ?

*always round CYA up. It's 50.

We are using granules in a sock (just like the last 9 years) and for some reason, it is just creeping. We put some in and it stayed at 30 for a long time. We just put a sock in and now it’s 45 *you say 50 but still low. won’t add any more until we slam it. Preparing to do that now as I lost even more CL last night and during the day today.

 

[DMS2014]

Post a full set of current test results from your TF-100.
Also post the salt content from a drop based salt test (K-1766).

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Salt
Water temperature

Or you can post them in PoolMath and then share yout PoolMath logs to your forum account.

Suggest you do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to confirm you don't have a nascent algae bloom.

Once we see a full set of test results and know whether you passed of failed the OCLT, we can provide further guidance.

Yesterday results were:
FC 2
CH 325 *Finally down after a year at 450
CYA 45 but I was told to round up….
TA 80
Salt 3200
pH 7.8
Temp 89

 

[JJ_Tex]

My immediate concern for you is your low FC. 2 is way too low and I would get it up to 5-8 using liquid chlorine ASAP. Then I would:
- Do an OCLT to make sure you do not have algae brewing (with SWCG off)
- If you pass the OCLT then worry about getting your CYA up and messing with your SWCG % and run time

 

[DMS2014]

How do these numbers look? Been steady all afternoon.i went over the protocol again to make sure that all was wel. The 33 (16.5) is below our slam level but has been consistent all afternoon. Will do the occult test. However, do we turn the pump off? It’s been running 24/7 since we started slam….

 

[Texas Splash]

@DMS2014 , I've not been on this thread for a bit so I'm catching up, but by the notes just above it appears your CYA was last 45 (rounded up to 50) which would require a SLAM FC level of 20. Looking at your recent handwritten notes however, the FC level is much higher. Can you confirm why?

Regarding those FC numbers, the first night it appears you failed the OCLT by falling 2 ppm, then the next night it actually increased which should not be possible. So on the second night either more chlorine was added or there was a testing error on one of those tests. Am I looking at this correctly?

Are you still performing the SLAM? Tell us how we can help.

 

[DMS2014]

@DMS2014 , I've not been on this thread for a bit so I'm catching up, but by the notes just above it appears your CYA was last 45 (rounded up to 50) which would require a SLAM FC level of 20. Looking at your recent handwritten notes however, the FC level is much higher. Can you confirm why?

Regarding those FC numbers, the first night it appears you failed the OCLT by falling 2 ppm, then the next night it actually increased which should not be possible. So on the second night either more chlorine was added or there was a testing error on one of those tests. Am I looking at this correctly?

Are you still performing the SLAM? Tell us how we can help.

I’m always paranoid about slams no matter how many times I do them. Those 33 numbers were the Whole number not the half. So it was really 16.5. And it was 16.5 this morning so I think I have passed?!? It stayed 33 (16.5( all afternoon) and early this morning.

Also, i am wanting help with setting up my pool app to figure out how much chlorine I need to generate with the SWG and I guess change the pool pump time. I posted that on aother thread to make it more relevant to the forum thread…..

 

[reggiehammond]

So the 33 is number of drops?
If so - you're under SLAM level.

You need to maintain SLAM levels for 50 CYA and make sure you pass all 3 exit criteria before stopping. If you stop too soon, you risk throwing away all this work and starting over.

SLAM Process

 

[JJ_Tex]

Work has been crazy and I'm catching up. We were worried about your low chlorine, and I wanted you to do an OCLT to see if you had algae brewing.

Here is what I see:
6/8 OCLT - Loss of 1 FC (Barely a pass, but at 8am you also likely had some sunlight in play that could have contributed to some minor loss)
6/9 OCLT - If the PM number is 34 (looks like 32 scratched out and updated to 34) - Then you didn't lose anything and is a pass

Now we have a choice to make. Do you either have algae and need to SLAM, or can we drift back down to normal and worry about dialing in your SWCG.

How does your water look? If it is crystal clear, like clear enough to see the screws on your drain, and absolutely no algae on walls or otherwise visible then I would say you do not need to SLAM.

Let us know on the above and we can figure out what to do next.

 

[DMS2014]

I posted my help Q for figuring out the SWG but I do not see my post nor has anyone answered it. I wanted to figure it out on the app -0 like how much - step by step- what my pool needs to generate and the time the pump/what speed, etc. my eyes rc

Work has been crazy and I'm catching up. We were worried about your low chlorine, and I wanted you to do an OCLT to see if you had algae brewing.

Here is what I see:
6/8 OCLT - Loss of 1 FC (Barely a pass, but at 8am you also likely had some sunlight in play that could have contributed to some minor loss)
6/9 OCLT - If the PM number is 34 (looks like 32 scratched out and updated to 34) - Then you didn't lose anything and is a pass

Now we have a choice to make. Do you either have algae and need to SLAM, or can we drift back down to normal and worry about dialing in your SWCG.

How does your water look? If it is crystal clear, like clear enough to see the screws on your drain, and absolutely no algae on walls or otherwise visible then I would say you do not need to SLAM.

Let us know on the above and we can figure out what to do next.

pool is perfectly clear. I got the same readings that I got all day in the morning so I think it's afe to start figuring out what I need to run my SWG for . I am clueless on that part. I finally admit something needs to change so if someone can help me figure this out, I woudl be grateful

 

[DMS2014]

I posted my help Q for figuring out the SWG but I do not see my post nor has anyone answered it. I wanted to figure it out on the app -0 like how much - step by step- what my pool needs to generate and the time the pump/what speed, etc. my eyes rc

pool is perfectly clear. I got the same readings that I got all day in the morning so I think it's afe to start figuring out what I need to run my SWG for . I am clueless on that part. I finally admit something needs to change so if someone can help me figure this out, I woudl be grateful

Okay. I am sick now. I just tested CL for kicks and it’s down to 7. How the heck to I got from a sold 16.5 all day and into the OCLT and now in just one day, down to 7 I know my CYA is not up and teh SWG is not on yet bc we were letting the levels drop but is this normal???

 

[Texas Splash]

I just tested CL for kicks and it’s down to 7. How the heck to I got from a sold 16.5 all day and into the OCLT and now in just one day, down to 7

So it was 16.5 when you woke up this morning, or was that yesterday? What was the FC this morning if you tested it?

 

[Texas Splash]

I'm going to post this (below) now before I lose it and to answer a couple of your earlier questions. Hopefully your last FC test was in error or something and you're good-to-go. If not, let us know.

Once you’ve passed the OCLTs correct, then you are ready to do some final adjusting in preparation for your SWG. You also want to use the APP correctly.

So there are some basic rules when trying to dial-in your SWG. For example:

1 – Once you pass the OCLT, you can increase the CYA from 50 to 70. That's one reason it was so important to pass the OCLT/SLAM because otherwise the SWG won't work well against heavy organics. Plus, the SLAM FC level would then become 28 versus the 20 you’ve been at.

2 – If your salt level is already good, then you can turn on the SWG and let the cell start producing chlorine. Your SWG cell output setting will also be dependent on how long you run the pump. The Poolmath APP can help give you a general idea of how much FC is “ideally” produced with a certain output and amount of run time, but what you actually see produced can be different. That’s not the APP’s fault, there are just many other factors like organics, CYA, sunlight, etc that influence your FC level. On the APP, look for the section “Effects of Adding” and experiment with various cell run times/output desires.

3- If possible, I would recommend setting your pump to run continuously (24 hrs) for a day or two and set the cell at about 50% output. This way you’ve taken the pump time out of the equation and the FC produced is all on the cell. Now if the FC starts to climb, you can then lower the output or program the pump to run less hours. From there it’s really just experimenting. Every pool is different

Having said all that, keep some liquid chlorine on hand. Watch the FC level closely for the first few days because you need to ensure the cell is operating properly. If not, the FC could drop rapidly and you'll start this mess all over again. The liquid comes in handy when your water needs a quick FC boost.

Here are some articles you may find helpful.

Water Balance for SWGs

Salt Water Chlorine Generators

Determine Pump Run Time

SWG Generation Cycle Times - Further Reading

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

 

[DMS2014]

So it was 16.5 when you woke up this morning, or was that yesterday? What was the FC this morning if you tested it?

I tested it yesterday morning and it was a 16.5 4 times in a row SO no I dind’t test it until today. So when I got home, it was 12.5. I forgot it rained hard last night and rained again today. I will test again tonight before bed and again in the morning. I am totally floored that i pass the OCLT and such a steep drop.

 

[DMS2014]

I'm going to post this (below) now before I lose it and to answer a couple of your earlier questions. Hopefully your last FC test was in error or something and you're good-to-go. If not, let us know.

Once you’ve passed the OCLTs correct, then you are ready to do some final adjusting in preparation for your SWG. You also want to use the APP correctly.

So there are some basic rules when trying to dial-in your SWG. For example:

1 – Once you pass the OCLT, you can increase the CYA from 50 to 70. That's one reason it was so important to pass the OCLT/SLAM because otherwise the SWG won't work well against heavy organics. Plus, the SLAM FC level would then become 28 versus the 20 you’ve been at.

2 – If your salt level is already good, then you can turn on the SWG and let the cell start producing chlorine. Your SWG cell output setting will also be dependent on how long you run the pump. The Poolmath APP can help give you a general idea of how much FC is “ideally” produced with a certain output and amount of run time, but what you actually see produced can be different. That’s not the APP’s fault, there are just many other factors like organics, CYA, sunlight, etc that influence your FC level. On the APP, look for the section “Effects of Adding” and experiment with various cell run times/output desires.

3- If possible, I would recommend setting your pump to run continuously (24 hrs) for a day or two and set the cell at about 50% output. This way you’ve taken the pump time out of the equation and the FC produced is all on the cell. Now if the FC starts to climb, you can then lower the output or program the pump to run less hours. From there it’s really just experimenting. Every pool is different

Having said all that, keep some liquid chlorine on hand. Watch the FC level closely for the first few days because you need to ensure the cell is operating properly. If not, the FC could drop rapidly and you'll start this mess all over again. The liquid comes in handy when your water needs a quick FC boost.

Here are some articles you may find helpful.

Water Balance for SWGs

Salt Water Chlorine Generators

Determine Pump Run Time

SWG Generation Cycle Times - Further Reading

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

Ok. I read all of this. I still don’t know how to figure out what I need to generate, how long. If I did the 4 hours as suggested on the SWG article, I would have algae every day! I do have the app. I coudl use some help on this, please.