Newbie looking for general advice

[pji]

Hi all,

Fantastic resource you guys have here. Just wish I’d found it sooner.

I’m looking for some general feedback/advice as I am looking to move away from having my pool-guy take care of the pool and plan to take care of it myself. It’s been on my mind for a while but I found this forum via reddit as I had to recently replace the old dual speed motor after it died. Went with a variable speed replacement. Figured after learning how to and doing that, now is a good a time as any to make the switch. The pool guy cleans the pool once a week but I’m sure he is not doing most (any) of the tests I’ve seen on this site. I’ve quickly made the journey from “I’m sure my pool guys is taking care of all this” to “oh Crud, I really need to do this myself!”

I have read most of what I can find on the site/forum and it seems manageable, at least once you get comfortable with it. Seems a little daunting with all the “daily testing” talk though.

Plaster pool, ~13,000 gallons, including corner spa with spillover. Pentair Dorado suction side cleaner.

Still need to figure out what speed to run the new motor at but I’m sure I’ll need to test levels in order to know what is a good speed to maintain correct levels. Currently running it at 2350rpm / 2850rpm.

I have a SWG (Autopilot Digital Nano Plus). Cell looks clean but is probably 4/5 years old. Will need to add salt as the pool pump was down for about 4 weeks when I was finding time to install the new motor. Currently at 2400ppm. Should be ~3200ppm according to the manual. Again, I’m sure after testing properly I can determine if the cell needs replacing? Any other way?

Seems like the TF-Pro Salt or TF-100 Salt are the best kits. Any reason to spend the extra $65 on the Pro? Currently spending $120/month for the pool guy so I’m sure they are both worth it and will save me money after a few months. How often will I need to get new reagents?

Assuming the TF-PRO SALT is the way to go, a good first step would be to use the tests and PM app, as well as post results here to get any advice I guess. What else should I be doing between now and the end of the month when the pool guy will stop?

Lots of questions I know but lots to learn!

Thanks.

 

[Newdude]

Seems like the TF-Pro Salt or TF-100 Salt are the best kits

They are hands down better deals than the Taylor equivalents.

The TF100 has 2.7X the supplies of the K2006.

The TFPro has more of the FC tests you'll use often and less of the CH and TA tests you'll do monthly once you prove both are stable/balanced, compared to the K2006C with too many TA/CH and not enough FC.

The TFPro also has a $44 stirrer that you WANT. And a nice case.

Either TF salt kit adds the $30 salt test for $20 more, tipping the scales even further.

I always reccomend the SLAM option which doubles the FC tests for newbs and swamps. Both will be testing more than normal at first and will exhaust the usual supplies.

a good first step would be to use the tests and PM app, as well as post results here to get any advice I guess

Post up your #s and we'll guide you through it. We know what to do with those #s and it's like we tested right next to you. We walk folks through it around the world on the daily.

Seems a little daunting with all the “daily testing” talk though

After a month or two you'll blow through what you need from memory in 2 minutes. Once a month you'll spend a couple more minutes (seriously like 5 total) on CH, TA, salt and CYA.

Still need to figure out what speed to run the new motor

Run the motor for a function. Skimming, SWG, heating, etc. They all have a speed that they start to work. The VS game is running as slow as you need for power savings. Start low RPM and increase by 100 until the SWG comes on, the heater, the weir doors are bobbing away, the waterfall is gushing, etc. Note each speed and add 100 RPMs to it to account for the filter getting dirty with slightly reduced flow. Those are your run speeds for each function. Any higher speed covers the lower ones by default.

 

[Jimrahbe]

pji,

I've had both, the TF-100 and the TF-Pro salt, and the Pro is worth the extra money, just because of the great case it comes in.

Your pump speed should be based on what speed it takes to turn on your salt cell, plus about 100 RPM. That would be the slowest speed you ever want to run.

I run my 3 HP IntelliFlo pump 24/7, mostly at 1200 RPM, as I like to make a little chlorine all the time, and I like to skim all the time. I also like the look of my pool when there is a little motion to the water.. This costs me less than $20 bucks a month.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pji]

Thanks guys.

You've convinced me on the Pro kit (I do like a nice case

Will post numbers when it arrives and take it from there. Good to know there are people here that are willing to help. That makes the decision a lot easier.

Did a little testing on the motor speed and its the spillover that seems to need the higher RPM, if that makes sense? Don't use the heater as just too costly to run unfortunately. Will expermiment a little more and try dial it in.

Spendling less with FPL (electricity) would be nice. I'm sure the old dual speed that was here before (and ran only on high as low was too slow for the SWG) was costing a lot.

 

[Bperry]

Thanks guys.

You've convinced me on the Pro kit (I do like a nice case

Will post numbers when it arrives and take it from there. Good to know there are people here that are willing to help. That makes the decision a lot easier.

Did a little testing on the motor speed and its the spillover that seems to need the higher RPM, if that makes sense? Don't use the heater as just too costly to run unfortunately. Will expermiment a little more and try dial it in.

Spendling less with FPL (electricity) would be nice. I'm sure the old dual speed that was here before (and ran only on high as low was too slow for the SWG) was costing a lot.

If you have a spillway, one thing to note is that aeration of the water makes the pH rise. If you don’t like the idea of adding acid frequently consider setting the spillway to just run for short periods a couple times a day to keep it chlorinated and not make the pH rise so much. Then you can just turn it on for the special times you want the ambiance of the water noise.

 

[Newdude]

+1. If you're not out there enjoying it, there's zero need to have it work against you. Flush it twice a day when not being used/looked at.

 

[pji]

Yeah I read about the spillover casuing increased pH. I'd have to go out to manually shut off the return in order to do this and then turn it back on.

Spa is 6' x 6' x 3.5' (average). How long shoud I let it run if I decide to go this route?

 

[Bperry]

Is the

Yeah I read about the spillover casuing increased pH. I'd have to go out to manually shut off the return in order to do this and then turn it back on.

Spa is 6' x 6' x 3.5' (average). How long shoud I let it run if I decide to go this route?

Is the spillway the only way of filling the spa? If not, you may just be able to balance the inflow and outflow so the spillway doesn’t spill, or just barely spills. But I always had a hard time doing that.

 

[pji]

Is the

Is the spillway the only way of filling the spa? If not, you may just be able to balance the inflow and outflow so the spillway doesn’t spill, or just barely spills. But I always had a hard time doing that.

I probably wasn't clear in my language. New to this!

Spa spills over into the pool. Spa is fed by the spa return. Also has a spa drain which has always been closed since we bought the house.

Well except for the one time my father in law thought he knew best (does not and has never owned a pool) and opened the spa drain valve without telling me. Found a nearly empty spa the next day...

I'm guessing from you comment that I *may* be able to balance the spa return and spa drain so it circulates but does not spill over (which I think from the comments above will cause higher pH levels). This sounds ideal if possible...

For the people helping me above, thanks! Ordered the TF-Pro Salt kit and it should be here in a few days. Will post numbers when I get them.

 

[Mdragger88]

Take some pictures of your equipment setup (valves & all) for more guidance on adjusting the spa settings.

To answer your other questions:

Testing frequency:
Fc & ph testing are daily until you get to know your pool & how it behaves in each part of the season. This only takes a couple minutes.
After you get a handle on it & you have your swcg dialed in you can generally go every couple days or so.
So long as you can insure your fc will remain above minimum for your cya & your ph is in the 7’s until you test again.
The other tests (ch,cya,salt) are much less frequent, like when you’ve exchanged some water (had lots of rain) or are actively adjusting things. So usually every few weeks or monthly if the above hasn’t occurred.
The ta needs to be checked fairly regularly as you need to know your ta to properly adjust ph. If you need to adjust ph often then you will need to check ta more often than someone who doesn’t.

Pump rpms:
So long as your rpms are high enough to activate the flow switch of your swcg it will produce the same amount of fc whether it’s running on a lower rpm or a higher one.

Your swcg:
Test your salt level with your kit Before adding anymore salt. You do not want to rely upon the swcg readout as its just a measure of conductivity not the actual saline level. One of the hallmarks of a failing cell is that the controller will read lower & lower salt due to the fact that the coating on the cell is depleted. Following that reading blindly leads to the user adding too much salt when there’s really plenty there. If you have the proper actual salt level range & the cell still says low salt it’s probably depleted. They have a roughly 8-10k hour lifespan if run at 100% (aka- 16-20k hrs @ 50%) which is easy to use up in 4-5 years in sunny Florida with long pool seasons. If you do find that you need a replacement you may inquire about a larger cell so you can run it less & it can last longer in people years. Several of the autopilot units can take different cell sizes. Not sure about your particular flavor unit.

*For some reason your pool volume isn’t on your little signature. (The one by your name)
Looking forward to seeing all your results!

 

[pji]

Mdragger88,

Firstly, thanks for the feedback.

Photos attached showing spa/spillover, as well as equipment setup. Cleaner valve is closed as I took the Dorado cleaner apart today to put a new vacuum skirt on it. This is basically it was set when we moved in a few years ago and the pool guy etc never suggsted anything else. Spa has always flowed into pool... Happy to be told there is a better way!

Testing frequency - Makes sense. Seems a lot right now but I can see how you get into a routine.

Pump rpms - will lower it and increase to see where is best. I assume I'll see a "no flow" error on the SWG when its too low?

SWG Cell - Will do as suggsted. TF-PRO SALT kit shipped out today (chatted with them directly) and it should hopefully arrive on Saturday. Will post numbers once I have it.

* Added the pool volume I think

 

[Bperry]

Mdragger88,

Firstly, thanks for the feedback.

Photos attached showing spa/spillover, as well as equipment setup. Cleaner valve is closed as I took the Dorado cleaner apart today to put a new vacuum skirt on it. This is basically it was set when we moved in a few years ago and the pool guy etc never suggsted anything else. Spa has always flowed into pool... Happy to be told there is a better way!

Testing frequency - Makes sense. Seems a lot right now but I can see how you get into a routine.

Pump rpms - will lower it and increase to see where is best. I assume I'll see a "no flow" error on the SWG when its too low?

SWG Cell - Will do as suggsted. TF-PRO SALT kit shipped out today (chatted with them directly) and it should hopefully arrive on Saturday. Will post numbers once I have it.

* Added the pool volume I think




View attachment 554235View attachment 554236View attachment 554238View attachment 554237

You have a separate suction and return for the spa so you can technically not be forced to use the overflow, but the bad news is you have to manually switch it over. That’ll get old fast I suspect.

They do make automated valves and controllers if you wanted to go that way. Those blue handled ball valves on there now aren’t the greatest choice for pool equipment as they have a tendency to freeze up or break over time when you want to turn the handle. Maybe consider changing to serviceable valves when those go out and then you could add actuators at the same time.

Also I noticed how tiny the filter is and then thought, I bet it’s in Florida….scrolled up to check and correct. Weird how they do that over there. Maybe it’s cause lots of pools are enclosed?

 

[Mdragger88]

. I assume I'll see a "no flow" error on the SWG when its too low?

That is correct
once that happens you will then need to up it a couple hundred rpms or so to account for the filter getting clogged & slowing flow.
You will also need to satisfy the flow needs of the heater so take that into consideration as well as it may require higher rpms than the swcg. The same method applies though.
That is a tiny filter as Bperry pointed out. It doesn’t look like you have a pool cage so I suspect you will need to clean your filter fairly often. It should be cleaned when pressure rises 25% over clean pressure.
Good news is it Looks like you have plenty of room on the pad for a much larger one when you’re ready to upgrade in the future.

 

[pji]

So, from what I am understanding I can isolate the spa using the return/drain and avoid the spillover completely. Have done this before when I wanted to heat the spa. I could then change it on the occasions I want the spillover running? Not loving the idea of having to run the spillover twice/day to be honest, mainly becuase of the valves you mentioned.. They are a pain in the Rear. I feel like they may snap every time I use them. Stuck with them for now but will take your recommendation on board when they break on me. I'm guessing I'll need to updgrade to some sort of automation at that stage as well?

Related question. How bad is spillover in increasing pH? Is this soemething I can live with (spillover running all the time) or is this a non negotiable? Test kit arrives on Tuesday so I will have numbers next week on the various levels..

Filter is a 150 sq ft Pentair Clean & Clean. Not sure what small is to be honest, but the wide angle photo definitely makes it look tiny! As for Florida, who the heck knows why people do anything the way they do things down here

Thanks.

 

[pji]

That is correct
once that happens you will then need to up it a couple hundred rpms or so to account for the filter getting clogged & slowing flow.

Got it thanks.

You will also need to satisfy the flow needs of the heater so take that into consideration as well as it may require higher rpms than the swcg. The same method applies though.
That is a tiny filter as Bperry pointed out. It doesn’t look like you have a pool cage so I suspect you will need to clean your filter fairly often. It should be cleaned when pressure rises 25% over clean pressure.

You guys are giving me filter envy over here. Is 150 sq ft considered tiny? And yes, no cage and I plan to clean it regularly. Not sure how often the pool guy has been doing it.

Dont use the heater at all. Does flow matter if the heater is off?

 

[Mdragger88]

I’ll defer to others on the valve positions but as far as ph goes, aeration increases ph, if you’re constantly aerating you will need to add acid more frequently to maintain ph than someone who isn’t constantly aerating (all other things being equal). That’s something you will need to decide if you want to deal with or not. Not bad or good persay - just how it is. Most people don’t want to have to constantly add acid so they look for ways to reduce ph rise - like limiting use of aerating water features.
The small filter is the same way-
How trouble free do you want the pool to be?
the smaller the filter the more quickly it gets dirty & requires cleaning. This can be a pain & not very “trouble free” so we recommend the largest filter you can fit in your space & also afford. Many here with appropriately sized cartridge filters only need to clean them once per year. Its not a deal breaker but something to consider in the future when things need updating.

 

[Mdragger88]

Dont use the heater at all. Does flow matter if the heater is off?

No

 

[Newdude]

Dont use the heater at all. Does flow matter if the heater is off?

Nope. One less thing to fiddle with. Find the proper flow anyway, just to know.

 

[pji]

I’ll defer to others on the valve positions but as far as ph goes, aeration increases ph, if you’re constantly aerating you will need to add acid more frequently to maintain ph than someone who isn’t constantly aerating (all other things being equal). That’s something you will need to decide if you want to deal with or not. Not bad or good persay - just how it is. Most people don’t want to have to constantly add acid so they look for ways to reduce ph rise - like limiting use of aerating water features.

Got it and makes sense. I'll get my head around this once I have the hang on testing etc. Ideally having the spa flow separately without spilling over sounds like and means less messing with the valves which I can feel will snap one of these days.. Hopefully someone can chime in on that as you suggsted.

The small filter is the same way-
How trouble free do you want the pool to be?
the smaller the filter the more quickly it gets dirty & requires cleaning. This can be a pain & not very “trouble free” so we recommend the largest filter you can fit in your space & also afford. Many here with appropriately sized cartridge filters only need to clean them once per year. Its not a deal breaker but something to consider in the future when things need updating.

I hear you. Its something I will keep an eye on. I had a look and the only larger size of this model that Pentair make is 200 sq ft. Obviously not going to swap it out now but if/when it fails on me, is this a good upgrade?

 

[pji]

Nope. One less thing to fiddle with. Find the proper flow anyway, just to know.

Finally an easy one! Thanks. Plan to test the flow over the weekend so one less thing to factor into the equation.