We made it to gunite... finally!

[sll0037]

You can place it as far away as you want as long as you size the pipe correctly.

Hazen-Williams Water Flow Formula: Head Loss, Data, Charts & Calculator

Friction head loss (<i>ft_H2O per 100 ft pipe</i>) in water pipes can be estimated with the empirical Hazen-Williams equation.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

For heating or cooling, there might be some heating or cooling losses at longer distances if the pipe is exposed to temperatures that are significantly different from the water temperature.

For example, if you are chilling the water and the pipes run across 200 feet of hot ground, the water will pick up some heat.

If you bury the pipe, the losses will be reduced.

You can use insulation on the pipes if you think that it will help reduce heating or cooling losses.

This is all going above my head.

Do you know what the math will look like for the chiller if it has a 2" Dedicated Return to the pool about 50' away? For what it's worth, we used sweep 90's (maybe about 4-5). There is a slight incline from the pad to the pool, but nothing crazy. Maybe a few feet max.

 

[JamesW]

How much flow?

 

[sll0037]

@sll0037 Hey there!

I am the individual @Schwimmbad mentioned in the previous posts about Glacier chiller. Here is a snippet of text from my email correspondence with them

“Account for 5 feet in head loss for each 90 degree turn. Which means the flow will not totally get there. Every turn you make it loses flow. We have tested in pools the pipe run can only be around 25 feet to get the flow into the pool for maximum cooling.”

Hi Derek,

Thanks for chiming in... so what did you end up doing? What are the details of your install?

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

From the picture provided, I feel that more Dobie spacers are needed so the application process will not push the rebar cage out of spec.

Can you give some perspective to the size of the cave in?
When the cave in is on the larger size I like to see the two separated to keep the pool shell as close as originally specified.

A few pre-Shotcrete notes, confirm all pig tails are pointing towards the ground, paint all four bonding wires at the forms for easier identification and tie the ends to a object like a wooden steak away from the shell so the Shotcrete crew will be less likely to bury them in the process, looking at your specific pictures I would suggest to check the elevations of the three bubblers after Shotcrete is finished around them to insure they are evenly elevated, you can do this easily by running a string across all three, have your hydration plan in place to keep the new shell hydrated for seven continuous days.

 

[JamesW]

Do you know what the math will look like for the chiller if it has a 2" Dedicated Return to the pool about 50' away?

 

[sll0037]

How much flow?

These are the specs I've been able to find on the Glacier GPC-215.

 

[JamesW]

45 GPM in 2" pipe is fine.

You could be 100 feet away.

What pump will you have?

 

[sll0037]

From the picture provided, I feel that more Dobie spacers are needed so the application process will not push the rebar cage out of spec.

Can you give some perspective to the size of the cave in?
When the cave in is on the larger size I like to see the two separated to keep the pool shell as close as originally specified.

A few pre-Shotcrete notes, confirm all pig tails are pointing towards the ground, paint all four bonding wires at the forms for easier identification and tie the ends to a object like a wooden steak away from the shell so the Shotcrete crew will be less likely to bury them in the process, looking at your specific pictures I would suggest to check the elevations of the three bubblers after Shotcrete is finished around them to insure they are evenly elevated, you can do this easily by running a string across all three, have your hydration plan in place to keep the new shell hydrated for seven continuous days.

I'll get out there tomorrow and take a tape measure to see how deep it is. Builder has said he plans to fill it with gunite.

As far as the bubblers, how much of the bubbler will I see once the gunite and mini pebble is complete. I was thinking they would of used black bubblers since we are doing a black finish and I'm worried I'm going to have weird highlights of white now. Not the best look.

 

[derekbishop]

You can place it as far away as you want as long as you size the pipe correctly.

Hazen-Williams Water Flow Formula: Head Loss, Data, Charts & Calculator

Friction head loss (<i>ft_H2O per 100 ft pipe</i>) in water pipes can be estimated with the empirical Hazen-Williams equation.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

For heating or cooling, there might be some heating or cooling losses at longer distances if the pipe is exposed to temperatures that are significantly different from the water temperature.

For example, if you are chilling the water and the pipes run across 200 feet of hot ground, the water will pick up some heat.

If you bury the pipe, the losses will be reduced.

You can use insulation on the pipes if you think that it will help reduce heating or cooling losses.

@JamesW This was good info to read. Just a follow up question. The glacier chiller uses a sump pump to return the chilled water.

So in their new build installation manual they have you install a dedicated chiller return line at deepest part of pool floor bottom. It’s actually the power of the sump pump that returns the chilled water and not the pool pump in this installation setup.

Whereas, in an existing build/retrofit they have you tie in the chiller return line back into the suction side of the pump where it will then be distributed across all standard returns using the power of the pool pump pressure side.

Assuming new build install setup would that make any difference in run length or Glacier’s recommendation they provided via email?

 

[sll0037]

45 GPM in 2" pipe is fine.

You could be 100 feet away.

What pump will you have?

The main pump will be a Pentair ItelloFlo VSF 3 HP pump.

Does the main pump matter in this case? I might be wrong, but I thought the Glacier chiller used it's own 1/3 hp sump pump to return the chilled water to the pool via a dedicated 2" drain to the center of the pool floor.

 

[ajw22]

As far as the bubblers, how much of the bubbler will I see once the gunite and mini pebble is complete. I was thinking they would of used black bubblers since we are doing a black finish and I'm worried I'm going to have weird highlights of white now. Not the best look.

What bubbler are you using?

This is what a Hayward lighted bubbler looks like. It has a white retaining ring around the cover lens.

How to Clean Algae Inside Hayward Colorlogic Bubbler?

Hello! We recently remodeled our pool and added two Hayward Colorlogic Bubblers to our sunshelf. I noticed some water inside the housing shortly after we filled up the pool but didn't think anything of it. The water inside the housing does not have any easy way to circulate, which has resulted...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sll0037]

What bubbler are you using?

This is what a Hayward lighted bubbler looks like. It has a white retaining ring around the cover lens.

How to Clean Algae Inside Hayward Colorlogic Bubbler?

Hello! We recently remodeled our pool and added two Hayward Colorlogic Bubblers to our sunshelf. I noticed some water inside the housing shortly after we filled up the pool but didn't think anything of it. The water inside the housing does not have any easy way to circulate, which has resulted...

www.troublefreepool.com

I believe they are Pentair Colorvision.

I feel like that white ring would be a real eyesore in a black pool. Ugh!

 

[ajw22]

I believe they are Pentair Colorvision.

I feel like that white ring would be a real eyesore in a black pool. Ugh!

See https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...sold-globrite-led-lights-brochure-english.pdf to see what the Pentair bubbler looks like.

Are you getting Globrite lights or Microbrites in the bubbler? Globrites do not last long before they crack and get water in them.

 

[ajw22]

The installation manual lists colored rings for the Pentair bubbler…

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/lighting/colorvision/manuals/ColorVision_Underwater_Color_Changing_LED_Light_Users_Guide_English.pdf

 

[sll0037]

See https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...sold-globrite-led-lights-brochure-english.pdf to see what the Pentair bubbler looks like.

Are you getting Globrite lights or Microbrites in the bubbler? Globrites do not last long before they crack and get water in them.

I didn’t even know putting a microbrite in the bubbler was an option.

Is that possible? I’ll have Microbrites everywhere else in the pool.

As far as the color rings are concerned, a black ring would help the look but it looks like you’d still see white from under the diffuser. I’d imagine the pool builder will be upset if I ask them to change them.

I had the same concern for the skimmers.

 

[ajw22]

I didn’t even know putting a microbrite in the bubbler was an option.

Is that possible? I’ll have Microbrites everywhere else in the pool.

Adapter allows a MicroBrite light to be installed into a Pentair GloBrite Niche or Pentair Colorvision Bubbler.

Pentair MicroBrite to GloBrite Niche Adapter | 618040

Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for Pentair MicroBrite to GloBrite Niche Adapter | 618040

www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

 

[ajw22]

As far as the color rings are concerned, a black ring would help the look but it looks like you’d still see white from under the diffuser. I’d imagine the pool builder will be upset if I ask them to change them.

Whose pool is the builder building?

Should be a small change. Biggest challenge may be finding the black rings.

And make sure you keep the installation tool that comes with the bubbler. Get it from the builder after the lights are installed.

 

[kimkats]

I was coming in to say what Allen said. This is YOUR pool that is being paid for with YOUR money so it should be done how YOU want it done with the colors and such that YOU want.

 

[HermanTX]

As far as the color rings are concerned, a black ring would help the look but it looks like you’d still see white from under the diffuser. I’d imagine the pool builder will be upset if I ask them to change them.

It is your pool. The PB (or someone in his design staff) should point out these concerns at the inception phase, ie. dark pool with lights, bubblers, drain covers, etc. so the right parts can be ordered. Ask for the change and have his team go find the right parts.

 

[JamesW]

The glacier chiller uses a sump pump to return the chilled water.

It’s actually the power of the sump pump that returns the chilled water and not the pool pump in this installation setup.

As long as the pipe is big enough, the length is not a problem.

Do you have the Pump Performance Graph?