How do I get rid of foaming?

[Charlie Z.]

I have an inground pool equipped with a salt cell (aka - SWG - Saltwater Chlorine Generator), pool water chemistry monitor system (from Keto A.I.) allowing me to read #'s such as FC, pH, temperature, water level, etc., from my iPhone. I can remotely control my pump/SWG/filter cycle (on, off times and duration) from the internet, occasionally needed to get help from friends to add acid to control pH. And of course, backyard cameras capture pictures and videos to monitor the pool water clarity.

Everything went so well for 2 months and the water was crystal clear. In the last two weeks of the vacation problems gradually developed, I got a minor algae boom turning it into a "green pool"! And in the last few days Paches of white foam showed up!

When I came back, I shocked the pool using HTH Cal Hypo and turned on pump/filter circulation continuously for 3 days now, the pool chemistry looks like this:

FC ~10
TC 8.5, which means CC = 1.5
pH 7.5
TA 80
CH (Calcium Hardness) 200
CYA 79
Fe 0
Cu (Copper) 0
P: 175 ppb

I have kept pump on filtering for 3 days now, I can see the water clarity is getting better, but the foam situation is not getting better, to the contrary I might say it's getting WORSE!!!

My questions is:
(2) Why I still get a lot of foam and how can I get rid of it?

Initially I poured a lot of muriate acid to lower the pH, unfortunately I over adjusted (7.2). Then I realized my TA was low, almost "0". I dumped 2 bags of baking soda to get TA in line, during the course pH went up just what I want.

So, I can't blame the low pH for causing the foam. Neither can I blame the pool chemistry, or even TDS for that matter (I have been using a robot to vacuum the floor continuously). I even throw a bunch of Flocculent Agent () to clarify the water! The only thing I can think of is the high Phos level. I want to throw in No-Phos or Phosfree to get rig of the phosphate, then comes my 2nd question:

(2) Will the chemical (commercial name could be No-Phos or Phos free) cause more foaming, making the foaming situation even worse?

It's been a long one, thank you in advance!

Best regards,
Charlie

 

[wireform]

I think you need to do some studying how pools really work.
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
SLAM Process
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
PoolMath
Test Kits Compared

 

[Charlie Z.]

Good idea, thanks a lot!

 

[PoolStored]

Hey Charlie Z!!! Welcome to TFP!!!

The first thing you need is a proper test kit. Here are the kits we recommend...Link-->Test Kits Compared

When you get your test kit, post your numbers and follow this process to clear your pool. Should handle the algae and the foaming. Link-->SLAM Process

If there is something else off in the chemistry, we'll catch it when you post your numbers.

I even throw a bunch of Flocculent Agent () to clarify the water!

^^This is also an issue. Did you vacuum the Floc to waste? If you allowed it to go through the cartridges, they are likely gummed up and need to be replaced.

 

[Charlie Z.]

Hey Charlie Z!!! Welcome to TFP!!!

The first thing you need is a proper test kit. Here are the kits we recommend...Link-->Test Kits Compared

When you get your test kit, post your numbers and follow this process to clear your pool. Should handle the algae and the foaming. Link-->SLAM Process

If there is something else off in the chemistry, we'll catch it when you post your numbers.


^^This is also an issue. Did you vacuum the Floc to waste? If you allowed it to go through the cartridges, they are likely gummed up and need to be replaced.

Yes, I got some:
(1) Leslies' Basic PoolCare DPD (Reagent-0001&2) Test Kit for FC, pH
(2) Taylor R-0600 for TC（I said R-0014 for TC, that actually was wrong)
(3) 6-way Test Strips: FC/pH/TA/TH/CYA
Plus Leslie's Pool free Testing generating a lot of stuff!!!
Hope I answered your question, thanks a lot!

Charlie

 

[wireform]

Charlie, you need one of those recommended kits and most here use the TFpro-salt and love it. Best money you can spend on a pool. All my customers get it too. The 6 way kit goes into the garbage can and is worthless at best.

 

[PoolStored]

(1) Leslies' Basic PoolCare DPD Test Kit for FC, pH
(2) Taylor R-0014 for TC
(3) 6-way Test Strips: FC/pH/TA/TH/CYA
Plus Leslie's Pool free Testing generating a lot of stuff!!!

Take a look at the test kits I posted. One of the tenets here is testing. We don't trust, nor do we make recommendations, on pool store, basic kits or test strips. Why? Most are not reliable or accurate and when we make recommendations on chemicals when the testing is bad, we can do harm to people and pool.

The R-0014 is fine for pH. Test will be invalid when FC > 10.

Get one of the following kits.
A) K2006C and K1766 (salt) or
B) TF-100 Salt or
C) TF-PRO Salt

 

[Newdude]

Plus Leslie's Pool free Testing generating a lot of stuff!!!

Yeah.

It ain't free when it's used to charge you for a bunch of expensive and potentially harmful chemicals. Half(?) of what they have is laced with copper.

So the test kits fall into 2 price points.

K2006 : too small
TF100 : 2.7X the supplies
-------------------------------
K2006*C* : too much TA, CH and not enough FC, CYA

TFpro : sized better for how we do things
*fancy case
*includes $48 stirring device

Either TF kit can be bought in a salt version which adds the $30 salt kit for $20, making them even better deals versus the Taylor equivalent, plus a K1766 salt kit.

 

[wireform]

These recommended kits sound like your overdoing the testing but in reality once all falls into place they are simple and to the point.

 

[Charlie Z.]

Thanks for a lot of advice. Well, there is no way to get the exact/accurate analysis by all these methods, after all, these methodologies just like high school kids fool around with all the test tubs/beakers in Chem-101 wet chem labs, I'm sorry.

 

[Charlie Z.]

Hey Charlie Z!!! Welcome to TFP!!!

The first thing you need is a proper test kit. Here are the kits we recommend...Link-->Test Kits Compared

When you get your test kit, post your numbers and follow this process to clear your pool. Should handle the algae and the foaming. Link-->SLAM Process

If there is something else off in the chemistry, we'll catch it when you post your numbers.


^^This is also an issue. Did you vacuum the Floc to waste? If you allowed it to go through the cartridges, they are likely gummed up and need to be replaced.

Yes, I also pumping/filtering/vacuuming around the clock!
Well, I dumped some No-Phos under the suspicion that would cause further more cloudiness and foaming, which proved to be the case!! I checked in the morning, and the foaming got much worse unfortunately.

Still got no clue as for why I was getting the foaming trouble in the first place.

 

[Charlie Z.]

I think you need to do some studying how pools really work.
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
SLAM Process
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
PoolMath
Test Kits Compared

Yes, I a kind of like the SLAM process!

In the video, it says check the overnight chlorine loss (I guess you refer to FC), so during shocking, if I am trying to maintain an FC level of 15 ppm, what kind of FC loss can I expect overnight? In other words, how much FC drop overnight is normal? Towards the end, I expect that overnight delta-FC get smaller. How small an FC delta that I reached, then I can say -- enough is enough, let's wrap it up!

Regards,
Charlie

 

[Newdude]

what kind of FC loss can I expect overnight?

Organics (algae) and the UV from the sun deplete FC. When the sun is removed from the equation, there should be no FC loss.

Between some minor testing variance, environmental crud blowing into any pool, and residual bather waste if swimming occurred, any pool may be ok up to 1 ppm FC lost overnight. So a loss of 1ppm or less overnight is acceptable for a healthy pool.

 

[Mdragger88]

Yes, I a kind of like the SLAM process!

In the video, it says check the overnight chlorine loss (I guess you refer to FC), so during shocking, if I am trying to maintain an FC level of 15 ppm, what kind of FC loss can I expect overnight? In other words, how much FC drop overnight is normal? Towards the end, I expect that overnight delta-FC get smaller. How small an FC delta that I reached, then I can say -- enough is enough, let's wrap it up!

Regards,
Charlie

Charlie,
If your cya is 80 (not sure it is until you use a turbidity test)
Then your shock/ SLAM Process fc level should be 31ppm.
See —>>FC/CYA Levels
You cannot test this with the kit you have to do an accurate Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.
An acceptable overnight fc loss is 1ppm or less.

 

[Mdragger88]

You need to be certain of your fc,cc & cya levels to begin & carry out the
SLAM Process.
Once you have those, (fas/dpd test & cya turbidity test) & can test accurately
you will need to continue to MAINTAIN Slam level fc for your cya as often as possible (multiple times per day is best) until you meet ALL 3 end of slam criteria-

You are done when:

CC is 0.5 or lower;
You pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
AND
The water is clear.
(Crystal Clear w/no algae dead or alive)

& Do ALL the things
*Check & scrub every nook & cranny where algae may hide {light niches, steps (inside & out), drain covers, ladder handrails, skimmer throats/weirs, abandoned lines, autofill, overflow drains, seam flaps, etc.}
*If water can go there, algae can thrive there.
*Run slam level water through all water features & lines for at least a couple hours a day during the SLAM Process.
*Brush & or vac daily (this breaks up biofilms that algae uses to protect itself from chlorine)
*Backwash/clean filter when pressure rises 25%over clean pressure.

 

[Charlie Z.]

Yeah.

It ain't free when it's used to charge you for a bunch of expensive and potentially harmful chemicals. Half(?) of what they have is laced with copper.

So the test kits fall into 2 price points.

K2006 : too small
TF100 : 2.7X the supplies
-------------------------------
K2006*C* : too much TA, CH and not enough FC, CYA

TFpro : sized better for how we do things
*fancy case
*includes $48 stirring device

Either TF kit can be bought in a salt version which adds the $30 salt kit for $20, making them even better deals versus the Taylor equivalent, plus a K1766 salt kit.

Thanks a lot! A lot to learn, I will check out.
Charlie

You need to be certain of your fc,cc & cya levels to begin & carry out the
SLAM Process.
Once you have those, (fas/dpd test & cya turbidity test) & can test accurately
you will need to continue to MAINTAIN Slam level fc for your cya as often as possible (multiple times per day is best) until you meet ALL 3 end of slam criteria-

You are done when:

CC is 0.5 or lower;
You pass an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test
AND
The water is clear.
(Crystal Clear w/no algae dead or alive)

& Do ALL the things
*Check & scrub every nook & cranny where algae may hide {light niches, steps (inside & out), drain covers, ladder handrails, skimmer throats/weirs, abandoned lines, autofill, overflow drains, seam flaps, etc.}
*If water can go there, algae can thrive there.
*Run slam level water through all water features & lines for at least a couple hours a day during the SLAM Process.
*Brush & or vac daily (this breaks up biofilms that algae uses to protect itself from chlorine)
*Backwash/clean filter when pressure rises 25%over clean pressure.

Very good idea, thanks!
Charlie

 

[Charlie Z.]

Well, thanks a lot for all the ideas/suggestions/comments! It looks I am getting there except the water is still hazy and foamy, happy to report the latest Leslie's results:
TC 4.4
FC 4.7
CC = 4.7-4.4 = 0.3
All the other stuff is good except Phos, which I could care less, right?
(BTW, I poured several cups of No-Phos last night and made the foaming even worse in the morning)

I will circulate/filter/scrubbing/vacuuming (like the heck) for a few more days to see what happen.

My homework next: check into the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

 

[wireform]

Don't get to happy with Leslie's results, they're usually almost dead wrong.

 

[Charlie Z.]

Organics (algae) and the UV from the sun deplete FC. When the sun is removed from the equation, there should be no FC loss.

Between some minor testing variance, environmental crud blowing into any pool, and residual bather waste if swimming occurred, any pool may be ok up to 1 ppm FC lost overnight. So a loss of 1ppm or less overnight is acceptable for a healthy pool.

Excellent! Thanks,
Charlie

 

[PoolStored]

Charlie,

Get one of the recommended test kits. Post Haste. The accuracy and reliability alone will pay for itself.

You cannot slam successfully without one of these these test kits.

Without knowing your CYA, you cannot SLAM.

Just get one.

Use only these chemicals:

Recommended Pool Chemicals

Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.

www.troublefreepool.com

Don't use anything else.