Pool patch won't hold

[penquinizer]

Hi all, I have a patched area near the bottom of the pool. It extends down from the sidewall.

The patch started deteriorating and cracked around August. Since it's near the bottom, I went ahead and used EZ patch FS on the cracked area and around it. It held well for about a week before it re-cracked again.

I had thought it was the mixture level so I changed the ratio a little bit and reapplied. No dice. About a week or so later it re-cracked.

I switched to using some putty and went over the area and after a week or two, it again cracked and started leaking again.

So besides having to resurface the whole pool, what are the options I have in getting the patch to hold?

Should I drain and use the non-fast set?

I've had 4 companies come out and look at it and they've all said they wouldn't patch and would require a full resurfacing.

 

[kimkats]

Your pool is telling what it needs done. With it being cooler it might be safe to drain it so you can patch it but you will have to be fast as you really don't want plaster sitting without water in it.

 

[Bperry]

Hi all, I have a patched area near the bottom of the pool. It extends down from the sidewall.

The patch started deteriorating and cracked around August. Since it's near the bottom, I went ahead and used EZ patch FS on the cracked area and around it. It held well for about a week before it re-cracked again.

I had thought it was the mixture level so I changed the ratio a little bit and reapplied. No dice. About a week or so later it re-cracked.

I switched to using some putty and went over the area and after a week or two, it again cracked and started leaking again.

So besides having to resurface the whole pool, what are the options I have in getting the patch to hold?

Should I drain and use the non-fast set?

I've had 4 companies come out and look at it and they've all said they wouldn't patch and would require a full resurfacing.

Hard to see where the crack is. Maybe post a picture from farther away or mark the photo? If it keeps opening back up in a crack, that may point to bigger issues. If it’s just a section of plaster delaminating then maybe not so bad.

 

[penquinizer]

Hard to see where the crack is. Maybe post a picture from farther away or mark the photo? If it keeps opening back up in a crack, that may point to bigger issues. If it’s just a section of plaster delaminating then maybe not so bad.

So the patched area seemed to have work done on it from before we bought it. There was a clear cutout from the plaster and concrete patch over it.

I circled that area in red. When we go the home about a year ago and there was a leak in the pool, I traced it back to this patch. So I applied some concrete patch that was left behind and it held for a long while. (8+ months)

However, the concrete that I patched started cracking and leaking again specifically a long the yellow line. This time, any patch I applied wouldn't last more than a week or so. I then switched to putty which worked out better but started cracking a long the same line after two or so weeks. (That's why it looks like there is some white on top of the grey area)

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Pool needs to be drained and the plaster in that entire area needs to be chipped out to expose the gunite shell below. A leak through the shell is not a good thing, it’s a potential structural issue. The longer you delay getting it worked on, the more damage will be done and the more costly it will be to repair. Now that the summer is past, it’s a good time to employ a pool builder to do the service. They will have more free time to look at it and propose a proper fix. Just replastering is not the answer so be wary of pool service companies that advertise “full remodeling” service. You want an actual pool builder to look at this and discuss option.

No cheap, simple, or fast fixes with this. It’s going to take time.

 

[penquinizer]

Gotcha! We've had 4 pool builders take a look at this and they've all said they need to chip out and staple. However, due to the size of our pool and their policy they require a full replastering of the pool.

Unsure if that is a standard policy or not.

 

[ajw22]

At this point you have an adhesion problem caused by all the different materials that have been put on the area to try and patch it. The only long term fix is to drain the pool, chip that area out down to the gunite, put a bond coat on, and then plaster.

Compare the cost of the repair with the cost of a full replaster. With the work that needs to be done to "repair" the area you are well down the road having a crew in that can do a full plaster job. That is why you are finding companies who will not do the repair job.

 

[penquinizer]

Gotcha! Thanks for that response.

In choosing a company only one of the four actually recommended us sticking with cheaper plaster instead of jumping for some sort of stone scape/pebble or quartz. Their reasoning was that the staples may not hold and there's a chance you'll need to cut in and repair the area if it doesn't hold so the "extra" life of the more expensive surfaces is a potential waste from that point of view.

Would this be a pretty true statement? They definitely seemed the most honest and spent the most time talking to me about the issue but they also are the lowest rated company that came out. Around 1-2 star average. Haha

 

[Bperry]

Gotcha! Thanks for that response.

In choosing a company only one of the four actually recommended us sticking with cheaper plaster instead of jumping for some sort of stone scape/pebble or quartz. Their reasoning was that the staples may not hold and there's a chance you'll need to cut in and repair the area if it doesn't hold so the "extra" life of the more expensive surfaces is a potential waste from that point of view.

Would this be a pretty true statement? They definitely seemed the most honest and spent the most time talking to me about the issue but they also are the lowest rated company that came out. Around 1-2 star average. Haha

How handy are you and how old is the plaster finish? I just finished a DIY crack repair and hired out the replaster and wouldn’t hesitate to do a small sized repair like that. But beware it might be a larger area than is visible from the outside.

If the plaster is more than 10 years old then replastering the whole thing is probably best and then they can chip out the whole pool along with that area and staple as needed.

 

[ajw22]

In choosing a company only one of the four actually recommended us sticking with cheaper plaster instead of jumping for some sort of stone scape/pebble or quartz. Their reasoning was that the staples may not hold and there's a chance you'll need to cut in and repair the area if it doesn't hold so the "extra" life of the more expensive surfaces is a potential waste from that point of view.

This discussion has moved from "patching" a small section of plaster to fixing a crack in the gunite shell.

That is a whole different level of repair.

Would this be a pretty true statement? They definitely seemed the most honest and spent the most time talking to me about the issue but they also are the lowest rated company that came out. Around 1-2 star average. Haha

There are a bunch of Youtube videos showing concrete staples being used to repair gunite cracks.

If the staple repairs are done properly with quality materials and an experienced crew it should hold stronger then the surrounding gunite.

There are a few different crack repair techniques and concrete staples will be stronger then just an epoxy injection crack repair. You want to understand exactly what materials and techniques will be used to repair your crack.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

... seemed the most honest and spent the most time talking to me about the issue but they also are the lowest rated company that came out. Around 1-2 star average. Haha

HUGE. RED. FLAG.

I would say that unless that contractor can come up with a bunch of personal references for jobs they just completed with happy end-customers, you want to put them at the very bottom of your list. We all know that online reviews can be sketchy at best BUT, if they have a lot of low ratings, then that means you need to do some NSA-Level background checking on them to ascertain why. There are lots and lots and lots of smooth-talkers out there ...

 

[penquinizer]

Yeah that is my big worry. It does seem like they have multiple branches throughout the state and most negative reviews come from their weekly pool treatment and cleaning service.

Regarding repairs, they all seem to say they're going to staple the cracks and then inject them with epoxy. They all have it in the quote for a baseline of 10x staples. (Subject to change of course) Are there different types of staple techniques? I'll reach out and ask them a bit more about the technique and materials they will use.

 

[Bperry]

Yeah that is my big worry. It does seem like they have multiple branches throughout the state and most negative reviews come from their weekly pool treatment and cleaning service.

Regarding repairs, they all seem to say they're going to staple the cracks and then inject them with epoxy. They all have it in the quote for a baseline of 10x staples. (Subject to change of course) Are there different types of staple techniques? I'll reach out and ask them a bit more about the technique and materials they will use.

Some places just inject epoxy and don’t use staples. Then it just re-cracks.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

They all have it in the quote for a baseline of 10x staples. (Subject to change of course) Are there different types of staple techniques? I

The stapling technique requires proper tooling and methods to do the job right. The metal staple plate has two anchor bolts on either side and the bolts are turned during installation which causes the steel plate to be in tension and "pull" the two sides of the crack together. The staple plate then needs to be covered over with hydraulic cement AFTER the epoxy is injected along the crack. It does take skill and attention to detail so you don't just want someone doing it for whom it's their first rodeo.

You can and should ask them who the manufacturer of the stapling system is that they plan to use so that you can familiarize yourself with the technical details. You're not trying to do the work on your own but you do want to understand the process and requirements and you would like to be able to thoughtfully check the work as it is being done.

 

[penquinizer]

Gotcha! We had a contractor come out that explained their process pretty well. He also mentioned they use Carbon Fiber staples and they are superior to rebar. Is this true and is carbon fiber worth the extra cost?



Contractor 1 (Per quote)
- Injecting with epoxy and carbon fiber staples. (Mentioned in person that they're drilling holes into the crack before injecting the epoxy instead of injecting from the surface)

Contractor 2 (Per quote)
Open the crack with a diamond blade saw. Open and drill to install a reinforcement bar staple. Anchor the crack with special concrete, and seal it with hydraulic concrete on top of the reinforcement bar for corrosion prevention.

 

[ajw22]

Carbon fiber staples worth the extra cost compared to what?

Concrete staples plus epoxy crack injection is a solid fix. Epoxy fills the cracks and the stables stabilize the area and prevent them from opening up.

Done right that are should be as strong or stronger then the rebar wall structure.

 

[Bperry]

Gotcha! We had a contractor come out that explained their process pretty well. He also mentioned they use Carbon Fiber staples and they are superior to rebar. Is this true and is carbon fiber worth the extra cost?



Contractor 1 (Per quote)
- Injecting with epoxy and carbon fiber staples. (Mentioned in person that they're drilling holes into the crack before injecting the epoxy instead of injecting from the surface)

Contractor 2 (Per quote)
Open the crack with a diamond blade saw. Open and drill to install a reinforcement bar staple. Anchor the crack with special concrete, and seal it with hydraulic concrete on top of the reinforcement bar for corrosion prevention.

Here’s some reference I used when deciding on metal staples. Epoxy alone is not strong enough to keep it from cracking.

Torque Lock Structural Staples - Misleading Information About Repairing Your Pool Crack

Are you tired of misleading information about repairing a pool crack? It's time to call and ask about Torque Lock Structural Staples.

torque-lock.com

 

[penquinizer]

Carbon fiber staples worth the extra cost compared to what?

Concrete staples plus epoxy crack injection is a solid fix. Epoxy fills the cracks and the stables stabilize the area and prevent them from opening up.

Done right that are should be as strong or stronger then the rebar wall structure.

Premium of Carbon Fiber vs Rebar. (Crack repair of Contractor 2 suggesting rebar is cheaper than Contractor 1 suggestion carbon fiber staples)

However, it seems like Contractor 2 is using special concrete to fill instead of epoxy.

 

[ajw22]

Premium of Carbon Fiber vs Rebar. (Crack repair of Contractor 2 suggesting rebar is cheaper than Contractor 1 suggestion carbon fiber staples)

I would do Torque Lock Staples.

Read...

Torque Lock Structural Staples - Misleading Information About Repairing Your Pool Crack

Are you tired of misleading information about repairing a pool crack? It's time to call and ask about Torque Lock Structural Staples.

torque-lock.com

 

[penquinizer]

Here’s some reference I used when deciding on metal staples. Epoxy alone is not strong enough to keep it from cracking.

Torque Lock Structural Staples - Misleading Information About Repairing Your Pool Crack

Are you tired of misleading information about repairing a pool crack? It's time to call and ask about Torque Lock Structural Staples.

torque-lock.com

Thanks for the article! It seems to read as if all options have issues and one should optimally look for someone that uses Torque-Lock staples?