Need help w pool light removal… ugh!

[300winmag]

Our large led light died, after less than 4 years. Pretty disappointing! I finally decided that today was the day i’d remove it, and now I wish I never touched it.

I shut off all the equipment, disconnected the wires in the above water JB, and tripped all the breakers.

Dove in and removed the light from the fixture cavity and began pulling the lights wire whip out. Then it got hung up. Harder pulls and it kept coming. Then it would get hung up again. I began using a 2x4 as a cheater bar, and after several successful pulls, the the entire wire snapped.





Now the remaining stub is hung up super tight and I have to get it out before I can fish the new light’s wire up & in.

The same conduit that i was pulling the light’s wires out of also has a ground running from the fixture cavity to this above water JB.


Center conduit. Can i disconnect this ground from this box, and pull it into the pool hoping that it brings the light’s wire stub w it?

Is this bare ground crucial for the safety of my pool if the light box it terminates in doesnt have a ligjht? Is this part of the bonding?

Help, and thanks.

 

[HermanTX]

Did you tie fishing tape to the wires that you undid at the junction box to allow you to pull your new light once the other is removed?
Can you pull on that to retrieve the broken wire?

Calling @1poolman1 for more advice.

 

[300winmag]

I did not connect a fish when I removed it. I falsely assume it would be an easy pull as it should have only one 90 and its a 3/4 conduit. But after the 1st 2’ i found out that wasnt true and the wires were already in the conduit

 

[JamesW]

If the light is low voltage, you do not need the ground.

If you need the ground, you can pull it out and install a new wire when you pull the new light cord.

Try putting some wire lube into the conduit.

You might need to blow it through with air or water.

 

[JamesW]

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[JamesW]

 

[300winmag]

I have some pulling lube. Tried air after it got stuck and I couldnt even see bubbles in the pool.

My light is 120V, so I guess I need the ground. But odd that its just a lug in the light cavity; not connected to anything. What is it grounding, exactly? It also has some some blue putty on the lug/holding screw.

Thoughts on pulling the ground into the pool or out of JB to remove the wire & jam.

 

[300winmag]

Light’s guts.

 

[JamesW]

Try pulling out the ground wire.

Maybe switch to a 12 volt light.

Try to push the lube through before pulling the ground wire out.

 

[300winmag]

Pull the ground out which way?

If i switch to a 12v light, how will that impact my spa light? They were wired together in that JB. Would need to replace both, and I presume the controller?

 

[JamesW]

But odd that its just a lug in the light cavity; not connected to anything.

The ground connects to the lug.

The ground is a supplemental ground because the NEC committee wants the light to have a bigger ground, but the manufacturers protested and the supplemental ground is a compromise solution.

This connection often fails despite the requirement to encapsulate it in waterproof potting compound.

If anything, the potting compound probably makes the connection corrode faster.

But, I digress.

If you cannot reconnect it, then you will probably need to switch to low voltage lighting.

You would need to install a transformer.

 

[JamesW]

Pull the ground out which way?

Whichever way it will come out.

If I switch to a 12v light, how will that impact my spa light?

You can separate the lights.

The junction box is not NEC approved, so you should replace it anyway.

You can have 1 for the pool and one for the spa.

Change the pool light to 12 volts and you can leave the spa light alone or change it to 12 volts if you are ready to replace it.

They were wired together in that JB.

Would need to replace both, and I presume the controller?

The controller is just on/off, so there is no reason to change the controller.

 

[JamesW]

 

[JamesW]

 

[300winmag]

The ground connects to the lug.

i understand that. But the lug itself isnt connected in any way to the light. So what is it actually grounding? The light niche seems to be non metallic, so not that. By supplemental do you mean it is not connected to the light and is sort of a dead-end ground?

I just dove back in, and I cant remove the ground wire w/o disconnecting it which seems impossible because it is buried in the potting compound. I tried to pry some of the compound with a flathead, and it wouldn't move, or flex.

So now if I cut the wire in the light niche to try to remove it, i can’t reconnect a new one.

 

[JamesW]

The ground lug is usually a solid piece that goes through the niche to a bond lug on the back of the light niche.

There is also a piece of stainless steel in the plastic to provide a water bond.

You can cut the wire and reconnect it later using a split bolt.

Just strip back some insulation and connect the ground wires together using a split bolt*.

*(As far as I know, this is OK, but I am not 100% sure that it is acceptable to the NEC).

 

[300winmag]

As the existing ground has no insulation, should I replace it with wire that does or doesnt have insulation? Maybe with insulation would pull more easily?

Many thanks!

 

[JamesW]

 

[JamesW]

It should be green insulated wire.

(b) Nonmetallic Conduit.

Nonmetallic conduit shall contain an 8 AWG insulated solid or stranded copper equipment grounding conductor.

The termination of the equipment grounding conductor in the forming shell shall be covered with, or encapsulated in, a listed potting compound to protect the connection from the possible deteriorating effect of pool water.

 

[1poolman1]

Our large led light died, after less than 4 years. Pretty disappointing! I finally decided that today was the day i’d remove it, and now I wish I never touched it.

I shut off all the equipment, disconnected the wires in the above water JB, and tripped all the breakers.

Dove in and removed the light from the fixture cavity and began pulling the lights wire whip out. Then it got hung up. Harder pulls and it kept coming. Then it would get hung up again. I began using a 2x4 as a cheater bar, and after several successful pulls, the the entire wire snapped.

View attachment 535442
View attachment 535447


Now the remaining stub is hung up super tight and I have to get it out before I can fish the new light’s wire up & in.

The same conduit that i was pulling the light’s wires out of also has a ground running from the fixture cavity to this above water JB.

View attachment 535444
Center conduit. Can i disconnect this ground from this box, and pull it into the pool hoping that it brings the light’s wire stub w it?

Is this bare ground crucial for the safety of my pool if the light box it terminates in doesnt have a ligjht? Is this part of the bonding?

Help, and thanks.

It is likely that the bare wire and the light cord were pulled together. When that is done they get wrapped around each other making it virtually impossible to remove the light cord alone. You could loosen the the bare copper wire and pull it into the pool without removing it from the ground/bond lug. Or, remove it and use code-compliant insulated wire in a code-compliant J-box.
Pull the bond wire first, then the light cord or it will be very difficult to do it the opposite way.
Since there is water in the conduit, pulling lube will be of no great use as it is water-soluble and will just wash away if it ever got to the level of the water in the conduit.