Variable speed pumps on Pentair Intellicenter

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richardkenner

Member
Jul 29, 2023
6
Tampa, Florida, US
The documentation on how this is supposed to work is confusing. I have an Intellicenter in "10D" configuration (two bodies of water). This has two dedicated load relays, one for the "pool" and one for the "spa". My installer connected an Intelliflow VSF to the "spa" relay and initially didn't connect it to the RS-485 bus. He later did. But it's still on the relay, which the pump manual says we shouldn't do. When it's off for a number of hours, and comes back on, it can take up to 2.5 hours to reestablish communication via RS-485. But if I just turn if off for about 10 minutes, it's fine.

I'd like to take it off the relay, but then it seems to me that there's no way of having the default "spa" slider control the pump. I can have different variable speed circuits and put each as a schedule entry, with none active meaning the pump is off, but I don't see a way of controlling the pump via the built-in button. Am I missing something? Shouldn't this be possible?
 
Richard,

Do you have two sets of equipment???

If you have the 10D, you should have two pumps and two filters, etc.. .. One for the Pool and one for the Spa

IntelliFlo pumps should get constant AC power... They can be connected directly to a breaker or they can be connected to the LINE (Input side) of the pump filter relay. When connected to the Line side of the relay, it is the same as being connected to the breaker. The pumps cannot be connected to the LOAD (Output side) of the relay.

If you have new IntelliFlo VSF pumps, it is possible that they also have bad Firmware. Using the pump's control panel check to make sure the pumps do not have F/W versions 3.03 or 3.04.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
I have two pumps, but only one is an IntelliFlo VSF, so that's the one I'm asking about. Although the installer did connect it via the relay and I understand that's wrong, if we don't use the relay, then how do we make built-in "spa" button on the UI control that pump? That's the part I don't understand. As to firmware version, I saw the discussion of this on the 2.017 firmware thread. I'm currently far away from the pump an can't find the firmware version on the "Pentair Home" app. Is it there?
 
richardkenner said:
if we don't use the relay, then how do we make built-in "spa" button on the UI control that pump
Click to expand...
If you are using an intellicenter , with the spa pump properly configured and addressed the spa button will activate the spa pump thru the rs485 buss.
richardkenner said:
I'm currently far away from the pump an can't find the firmware version on the "Pentair Home" app.
Click to expand...
The known firmwre issue is with the intelliflow2 011056 pumps. The pentair home app (currently) only works for the intelliflow3 pumps and not intellicenter (pentair recently announced intrellicenter will be moving to pentair home at the end of year though). With the pump powered constantly front the line side of the relay, connected to the rs485 buss on intellicenter and properly configured, I don't beleive you should be able to access the pump thru the home app.
 
Richard,

I am not sure if the dual system set up is different, or not, but...

For a normal system you would assign a speed for the Spa circuit... anytime you turn on the Spa circuit, the pump would run that speed.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page.. You should have a small cable connected to the control head of your pump. The other end of this cable is connected to a com port in your IntelliCenter.

The first thing you should do is go look at the pump's display.. If it is being controlled by your IntelliCenter, the display will show "Display Not Active".. If it does not say that, then the pump is not talking to your IntelliCenter.

Please let us know what your pump's display shows.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
The first thing you should do is go look at the pump's display.. If it is being controlled by your IntelliCenter, the display will show "Display Not Active".. If it does not say that, then the pump is not talking to your IntelliCenter.
Click to expand...
Since the op has an intelliflo3 there is likely no display. According to the manual it says :

WHEN THE PUMP IS CONNECTED TO AUTOMATION: • CONNECT LED will pulse Magenta/Pink • Touchscreen Controller (if installed) will display a message indicating the pump is being controlled by an automation system • Pentair Home app will display a message confirming the pump is being controlled by an automation system • All pump control is handled by the automation system • When putting the automation mode into Service Mode, the automation system will return control to the pump
 
richardkenner said:
Where do I tell the Intellicenter that that pump is for the "spa"? That's what can't find. And if I have a number of different speed circuits and all are off, what speed will just pushing "spa" set the pump to?
Click to expand...
Go to SETTINGS - Advanced System Configuration - INSTALLATION SETUP - PUMPS - Select the pump - SPEED/FLOW CIRCUITS

Here you add the circuits associated with your pumps and the speed the pump should run on that circuit.

You should have an entry for SPA and a speed. If not press the + to Add Circuit and select SPA and a speed.

You can have up to 8 circuits associated with a pump.

If multiple circuits for the pump are running at the same time the pump will run at the highest speed.

You should move your pump power to the LINE side of its relay so it is always powered on. When no circuits associated with that pump are running the IntelliCenter will set the pump to 0 RPM through the RS-485 connection.

IMG_1727.jpegIMG_1728.jpegIMG_1729.jpeg
 

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Yes, I understand all of that, and I indeed at one point had "Spa" as the circuit in one of the speed circuits. But I still don't see how this works. The point of having the speed circuits is to be able to have a schedule that runs at a higher speed. Let's use the example above, "Pump 2400". Let's say that I have a schedule that turns that circuit on, say, from 4 PM to 7 PM. During that time, it seems to me that if I press the built-in button "Spa" during that time, it'll turn off that circuit, but the pump will continue to run at 2400 until that schedule expires, so the "Spa" button isn't acting as an on-off control of the pump. Am I missing something?
 
richardkenner said:
Yes, I understand all of that, and I indeed at one point had "Spa" as the circuit in one of the speed circuits. But I still don't see how this works. The point of having the speed circuits is to be able to have a schedule that runs at a higher speed. Let's use the example above, "Pump 2400". Let's say that I have a schedule that turns that circuit on, say, from 4 PM to 7 PM. During that time, it seems to me that if I press the built-in button "Spa" during that time, it'll turn off that circuit, but the pump will continue to run at 2400 until that schedule expires, so the "Spa" button isn't acting as an on-off control of the pump. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are missing something.

The IntelliCenter has two types of circuits - AUX circuits that controls an AUX relay and Feature Circuits that control a feature and not an AUX relay.

When you select the SPA circuit the SPA AUX relay is turned on to turn on all devices powered by it. And by the pump association the VS pump is run at the set RPM.

When you turn off the SPA circuit the SPA AUX relay is turned off and the VS pump will be set to 0 RPM IF NO OTHER CIRCUITS ARE REQUESTING THE PUMP RUN.

Turning on Pump 2400 is an independent request to run the pump speed at 2400. So you can run the pump and not be in SPA mode and not have devices like the SWG powered by the AUX relay.

The pump goes to 0 RPM when no circuits are requesting it run.

The pump is constantly powered and never physically turns its power OFF.
 
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richardkenner said:
During that time, it seems to me that if I press the built-in button "Spa" during that time, it'll turn off that circuit, but the pump will continue to run at 2400 until that schedule expires, so the "Spa" button isn't acting as an on-off control of the pump. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
First off, please confirm your pump model numbers as I am making some inferences (completing your signature would be helpful) Based on your descried operation, I beleive your issue is 3 fold.
1. Your presumed intelliflo3 spa pump os hooked to the load side of the relay so it is having ro reconnect each time the "sp" button is used in intellicenter
2. I don't beleive the pump is configured/addressed for automation mode. If it where, the pump would show unavailable - being controlled by automation in pentair home. You will not be able to use intellicenter2 and pentair home to control the pump once configured correctly
3. Pure speculation but since the pump currently looses power when spa mode is turned off in intellicenter, it is possible that sometimes it acts as if intellicenter has some level of control even though it doesn't. I venture to guess you have some schedules programed in pentair home (which if the pump were configured correctly for automation
control would do nothing )
 
The installer isn't very familiar with the Intellicenter but, more importantly, I discovered this after I made the final payment, so they have no incentive to deal with this.

Pentair Home *does* say "controlled by automation" and shows the model as Intelliflo/Pro3 VSF 3hp.

As to "When you turn off the SPA circuit the SPA AUX relay is turned off and the VS pump will be set to 0 RPM IF NO OTHER CIRCUITS ARE REQUESTING THE PUMP RUN", that's *exactly* my problem and question. People expect pressing the "Spa" button when it's on to unconditionally turn off the spa pump. That will happen if it's on the load side of a relay. But we're not supposed to do that. So how do we make it that the "Spa" button will *always* turn off the pump (the expected behavior) no matter what other circuits are active by schedule?
 
richardkenner said:
As to "When you turn off the SPA circuit the SPA AUX relay is turned off and the VS pump will be set to 0 RPM IF NO OTHER CIRCUITS ARE REQUESTING THE PUMP RUN", that's *exactly* my problem and question. People expect pressing the "Spa" button when it's on to unconditionally turn off the spa pump. That will happen if it's on the load side of a relay. But we're not supposed to do that. So how do we make it that the "Spa" button will *always* turn off the pump (the expected behavior) no matter what other circuits are active by schedule?
Click to expand...

Do not setup any other circuits with SPA Pump speeds.
 
richardkenner said:
So how do we make it that the "Spa" button will *always* turn off the pump (the expected behavior) no matter what other circuits are active by schedule?
Click to expand...
I presume this will work the same as my single pump p/s system. When I click the button to shutoff "pool" for instance, the pool circ pump is commanded off thru the 485 buss (by its address) . It remains off until I turn it back on or another schedule starts that turns it on.
 
Ahultin said:
Since the op is on a dual body setup, won't at least 2 spa circuits/speeds be needed? One For normal circulation and one for actual spa use (high enough peed to cause the jets to function)
Click to expand...

Depends how his spa is setup. I have a separate spa jet pump and so my SPA speed stays the same whether in use or idle, except when the heater begins running and then SPA speed is ramped up.

It would be helpful to see the entire SPA setup and the IntelliCenter screens we are discussing.
 
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I would think that the system would command off the pump via its address, as was suggested, but what I can't find is how the system knows, in the pump programming, that this particular pump is for the spa (and another pump, e.g., is for the pool). Does it look to see if any of the speed circuits are the circuit for the spa?
 

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