Electrician installed no GFCI breaker for new tub. Should I be worried?

[RDspaguy]

Maintenance Disconnecting Means: A maintenance disconnecting means is required . . . located in sight and at least 5 ft from the

? Sounds like it's required to me.
As explained to me in IBEW code class circa 1993, fire safety is half of electrical code, and personal safety is the other. Wire/breaker sizing is fire safety, when you get down to it, since the wrong size wire on the wrong size breaker burns your house down. Limits on pigtail lenghts for drop-ceiling fixtures, anchoring, plenum ratings, wall perforations, termination/splicing, you name it. Electrical code is about safety, not just "best practices". Sure, a dedicated outlet for service at the panel is a convenience, but a disconnect (not a pump shutoff that does not turn off power to a device, it simply flips a switch on one leg of the pump to free an entrapped swimmer) within sight and fairly close, but not too close for personal safety, is not for convenience whatever it's called. That's why every major electrical appliance hard-wired outdoors is required to have one, not just a spa, and gfci protection has no bearing on it since they can fail, and the requirement predates gfci protection in any case.
Tell you what my friend, find an inspected AC compressor without one, and I'll consider the ridiculous proposition that they are not required by code in a residential installation, or are just a convenience for the handful of times it will be serviced. Ask your relative if it's optional on an AC unit too. I'll bet he has a different story then.

500 different building inspection departments

Thank you for providing me with fresh nightmare material, I was getting bored with the usual health inspection scenario.

 

[Methuselah]

To answer your question all you need do is search for threads on gfi tripping.

The typical failure mode of a heater is every 2 to 5 years the tube corrodes, leaks,and conduction of fault current trips the breaker.

Without a gfci to trip you could easily be one of the conduction paths.

Note it isn't a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.

All the rest is code, hopefully the above provides motivation...

 

[phonedave]

? Sounds like it's required to me.
As explained to me in IBEW code class circa 1993, fire safety is half of electrical code, and personal safety is the other. Wire/breaker sizing is fire safety, when you get down to it, since the wrong size wire on the wrong size breaker burns your house down. Limits on pigtail lenghts for drop-ceiling fixtures, anchoring, plenum ratings, wall perforations, termination/splicing, you name it. Electrical code is about safety, not just "best practices". Sure, a dedicated outlet for service at the panel is a convenience, but a disconnect (not a pump shutoff that does not turn off power to a device, it simply flips a switch on one leg of the pump to free an entrapped swimmer) within sight and fairly close, but not too close for personal safety, is not for convenience whatever it's called. That's why every major electrical appliance hard-wired outdoors is required to have one, not just a spa, and gfci protection has no bearing on it since they can fail, and the requirement predates gfci protection in any case.
Tell you what my friend, find an inspected AC compressor without one, and I'll consider the ridiculous proposition that they are not required by code in a residential installation, or are just a convenience for the handful of times it will be serviced. Ask your relative if it's optional on an AC unit too. I'll bet he has a different story then.


Thank you for providing me with fresh nightmare material, I was getting bored with the usual health inspection scenario.

When he originally stated it was not needed, I pushed back against it myself. But then he is the electrician, not me. But I agree with you. I myself would not want a tub without a disconnect.

As for the disconnect being for maintenance purposes or fire safety, I can see it for both, but I suspect it is used more for maintenance than for cutting power to a hot tub where a person has been electrocuted.

I have had to work with many of the municipalities in NJ, for permitting, traffic control, Right of Way work, and a bunch of other things. It can definitely be a nightmare.

 

[proavia]

As for the disconnect being for maintenance purposes or fire safety, I can see it for both, but I suspect it is used more for maintenance than for cutting power to a hot tub where a person has been electrocuted.

One can only hope that's the case.

 

[1poolman1]

Had new hot tub installed one month ago and had a local, established electrical outfit install breaker and run wire to tub. It works fine without issues, but I had no idea that GFCI is now required. Electrician did not add GFCI or disconnect. Contacted company and no one has gotten back to us. How serious and common is this and what is the actual risk as it seems the code was changed recently? Not sure how important it is to pursue this. I imagine there are thousands of tubs installed from years ago that have not been updated. Thanks!

From the Bullfrog manual:
Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI): As per national and local wiring rules, all spas, hot tubs, and associated electrical components must be protected by a GFCI, either at the main breaker box or at the service disconnect. WARNING: Removal or bypassing the GFCI will result in an unsafe spa and will void your spa’s warranty. When installing the GFCI, all conductors except the green ground must be routed through the GFCI, including the neutral. Never bypass the neutral line. If the neutral line is bypassed, then the current will be imbalanced and cause the GFCI to trip. See GFCI Wiring Diagrams or contact Bullfrog International, LC or your authorized Bullfrog Spa dealer. REQUIRED TEST PROCEDURE: After the spa is first filled and turned on, and prior to each use, the GFCI should be tested as follows: Step 1: Press test on the GFCI breaker. The spa should stop operating.

 

[Methuselah]

...

As for the disconnect being for maintenance purposes or fire safety, I can see it for both, but I suspect it is used more for maintenance than for cutting power to a hot tub where a person has been electrocuted.

...

I presume you mean received a shock, if there's a GFCI that's not tripped and someone in the tub who died from electrocution that GFI was more than likely defective and I wouldn't trust turning it off before touching anything in that water...

 

[proavia]

I presume you mean received a shock, if there's a GFCI that's not tripped and someone in the tub who died from electrocution that GFI was more than likely defective and I wouldn't trust turning it off before touching anything in that water...

A GFCI is not a disconnect.
Some circuit breakers incorporate a GFCI and others don't. Shutting off the circuit breaker or pulling a separate disconnect will remove power. That is why a service disconnect or other proper means of disconnecting power is required within sight of the tub.

 

[1poolman1]

A GFCI is not a disconnect.
Some circuit breakers incorporate a GFCI and others don't. Shutting off the circuit breaker or pulling a separate disconnect will remove power. That is why a service disconnect or other proper means of disconnecting power is required within sight of the tub.

There are sub panels that are both.
Again, from the manual:
• Service Disconnect: Based upon your area, a disconnect device must be incorporated into the fixed wiring in accordance with national and local wiring rules. If the national and local wiring rules permit, a GFCI Sub-Panel may be used to substitute the service disconnect, providing that it is located within the same parameters.

They are readily available at Home Depot stores in my area.

 

[proavia]

A GFCI needs to be labeled as a disconnecting means to be used as one. A normal receptacle or deadfront GFCI is not labeled or listed for disconnecting use.

So unless the GFCI is labeled by the manufacturer as a diconnect, use the circuit breaker or service disconnect - instead of the GFCI button to trip the GFCI - to remove power from the downstream device.

 

[JamesW]

A GFCI needs to be labeled as a disconnecting means to be used as one. A normal receptacle or deadfront GFCI is not labeled or listed for disconnecting use.

I am pretty sure that when a GFCI was referred to, the person meant GFCI breaker.

 

[proavia]

I am pretty sure that when a GFCI was referred to, the person meant GFCI breaker.

I'm pretty sure too.

But I believe the circuit breaker needs to be shut off and not just the GFCI portion of the GFCI breaker popped to service as a disconnect. Just trying to clarify that the GFCI part does not constitute the disconnect.

 

[Methuselah]

I am pretty sure that when a GFCI was referred to, the person meant GFCI breaker.

I did, for 50 or 60A service I was not aware one could buy a GFCI that wasn't also a breaker. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks James.

 

[JamesW]

The other reason to have a disconnect in line of sight is so that you can verify that no one turns on power while servicing the unit.

If the disconnect is not in line of sight, there is a risk of someone restoring power while you are working with the power components.

 

[RDspaguy]

As I understand it, a cord-connected appliance (meaning it plugs in to a receptacle) does not require a disconnect, as the plug and receptacle function as a means to disconnect power to the unit. Thus a cord-end gfci or a gfci protected outlet do not utilize the gfci as a disconnect.
A gfci breaker trips completely from a ground fault if functional, just as though you turned it off.
There are gfci disconnects with a deadface "loop" gfci and a pull-out disconnect, but they are more expensive and less reliable than a gfci breaker disconnect. Haven't seen one on any tubs installed in the last 20 years, but they're out there.

I suspect it is used more for maintenance than for cutting power to a hot tub where a person has been electrocuted.

Obviously. I chose an example with a little shock value, but the reasons one might need a disconnect in an emergency situation are many. Ever seen a spa that caught on fire? Or the deck it was on or house it was next to? I have, more than once.
And yes, it will get used for maintenance far more than emergencies even if you have an emergency, but my convenience is not why it's required by code, I promise.
For fun, one of you with a current NEC please look up the NEC definition of "service disconnect", or even "service". If it's using "service" the same as in "service panel", for example, it means "electrical power source", not "repair". So a "service disconnect" is an electrical power source disconnect, not a "repairman convenience" disconnect. This gives absolutely no indication of a purpose or reason, it is a listed requirement and that is all. I don't recall there being a lengthy explanation of reasons for the code in the code book, but it has been a long time.

someone restoring power while you are working with the power components.

Been there, done that. Only time I ever cursed at a customer. And you can't see a disconnect 10ft behind you when squatting or sitting and working in a control box. Trust me, I know.️

 

[ajw22]

So a "service disconnect" is an electrical power source disconnect, not a "repairman convenience" disconnect. This gives absolutely no indication of a purpose or reason, it is a listed requirement and that is all. I don't recall there being a lengthy explanation of reasons for the code in the code book, but it has been a long time.

A Service Disconnect is described in NEC 230.70 - Means shall be provided to disconnect all ungrounded conductors in a building or other structure from the service conductors.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/2020-nec-service-disconnects/

680.13 defines the requirements for a Maintenance Disconnect for Pools, Spas and other equipment...



While 681.41 defines the requirement for an Emergency Switch for Spas and Hot Tubs in other than one-family dwellings...

Stumped By the Code? Requirements for Installing Maintenance Disconnect at a Pool, Acceptable Wiring Methods for Class I Locations, and More

Your most pressing National Electrical Code (NEC) questions answered

www.ecmweb.com

 

[Methuselah]

As I understand it, a cord-connected appliance (meaning it plugs in to a receptacle) does not require a disconnect, as the plug and receptacle function as a means to disconnect power to the unit. Thus a cord-end gfci or a gfci protected outlet do not utilize the gfci as a disconnect.
A gfci breaker trips completely from a ground fault if functional, just as though you turned it off.
There are gfci disconnects with a deadface "loop" gfci and a pull-out disconnect, but they are more expensive and less reliable than a gfci breaker disconnect. Haven't seen one on any tubs installed in the last 20 years, but they're out there.


Obviously. I chose an example with a little shock value, but the reasons one might need a disconnect in an emergency situation are many. Ever seen a spa that caught on fire? Or the deck it was on or house it was next to? I have, more than once.
And yes, it will get used for maintenance far more than emergencies even if you have an emergency, but my convenience is not why it's required by code, I promise.
For fun, one of you with a current NEC please look up the NEC definition of "service disconnect", or even "service". If it's using "service" the same as in "service panel", for example, it means "electrical power source", not "repair". So a "service disconnect" is an electrical power source disconnect, not a "repairman convenience" disconnect. This gives absolutely no indication of a purpose or reason, it is a listed requirement and that is all. I don't recall there being a lengthy explanation of reasons for the code in the code book, but it has been a long time.


Been there, done that. Only time I ever cursed at a customer. And you can't see a disconnect 10ft behind you when squatting or sitting and working in a control box. Trust me, I know.️

The disconnect boxes usually have a loop in the cover for a lock. Service imo, should require using a lock.

We had a Warrant Officer working on the receiver of a roundy-round (radar that spins), and someone turned back on the motor generator. He died the following day.

Same happened a decade earlier in Korea with the illuminator, a never saw a big guy move so fast (getting down).

Both these were just circuit breakers 6 to 8 feet away.

Safety's a joke, extra expense, and inconvenient. Well, maybe I knew at least two people who would have disagreed. Three counting me...

 

[1poolman1]

The disconnect boxes usually have a loop in the cover for a lock. Service imo, should require using a lock.

We had a Warrant Officer working on the receiver of a roundy-round (radar that spins), and someone turned back on the motor generator. He died the following day.

Same happened a decade earlier in Korea with the illuminator, a never saw a big guy move so fast (getting down).

Both these were just circuit breakers 6 to 8 feet away.

Safety's a joke, extra expense, and inconvenient. Well, maybe I knew at least two people who would have disagreed. Three counting me...

Lockout/tag out is the standard that has been ignored as long as I have been working in both construction and pools, 50+ years.
I've gone to the extent of removing a breaker at the main panel if I can't see it while working on an equipment pad. I don't want to be an anecdote.

 

[Methuselah]

Lockout/tag out is the standard that has been ignored as long as I have been working in both construction and pools, 50+ years.
I've gone to the extent of removing a breaker at the main panel if I can't see it while working on an equipment pad. I don't want to be an anecdote.

Another EXCEPTIONAL post bookmarked!

 

[phonedave]

The other reason to have a disconnect in line of sight is so that you can verify that no one turns on power while servicing the unit.

If the disconnect is not in line of sight, there is a risk of someone restoring power while you are working with the power components.

Which I think is asinine. Just because I can see it from the hot tub, does not mean I am going to notice somebody turning it on when I have my head stuck in the equipment bay.

Yeah, it is better then nothing, but to be really safe should have some form of LO/TO on it.

 

[1poolman1]

Which I think is asinine. Just because I can see it from the hot tub, does not mean I am going to notice somebody turning it on when I have my head stuck in the equipment bay.

Yeah, it is better then nothing, but to be really safe should have some form of LO/TO on it.

Absolutely! Some disconnects are truly that, a device that completes the circuit can be removed. They are put in my pocket until I'm done. Can never forget to put it back because the repair has to be tested, so in it goes. The combo disconnect/GFCI boxes all have a hole in the catch. I will either use a small combination lock, or if I can't find that, a zip tie. Its up to me, and any worker, to provide our own safety.