Two-Year-Old Pool Major Discoloration and Bleaching

[MattInTexas]

Hi, Everyone!

New to the forum and to pools in general. Closed on a house with my first pool! Yay! Although it's only two years old it has major discoloration (light and dark spots). General home inspector thought it was algae but the water is so clear.

Here is what the prior owners communicated to us:

"I asked many folks about the pool. I didn't want to have it resurfaced until I could root cause the issue and be certain it would not happen again. I believe the best answer came from Gary Pools. They say it is a chemical reaction caused by the metals in the water and the shock being used in the pool. The metals are due to the fact that the water travels through the heater, even if the heat is not on. Those pipes are copper (this is normal). The guy at Gary Pools also recommended draining enough water to expose the shallow deck and attempt to acid wash it. If that worked, then it would be worth doing the same to the rest of the pool. The fact still remains that the metals are high in the pool. I hope this helps."

Does the above make any sense? Has anyone on this forum experienced a similar issue? Do we really need to resurface (if so how?) and replace the heater?

Any help would be appreciated.

Mod: Apologies if this is the wrong forum. Please move post if needed.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Wow. I'm sure others with metal staining expertise will chime in, but lets get some more info:

- Are you on a well?
- Do you have a heater?
- What products do you use in the pool? Anything marketed as "blue" in the name? Any algaecides?
- Any other pool store wizardry that you have added? They love to push gimmicky products that can do more damage than good.
- Tell us about your equipment? What type of pump, filter, how do you chlorinate, etc?
- NB is beautiful and we got married there. Any chance you are near the river and has the pool ever been flooded?

While you provide that info, I also suggest you read this article.

Stains in Your Pool

The stained pool is beyond embarrassing. Our in-depth Guide to remove stains in your pool will help you to remove the stains and prevent them in the future.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Hi, Everyone!

New to the forum and to pools in general. Closed on a house with my first pool! Yay! Although it's only two years old it has major discoloration (light and dark spots). General home inspector thought it was algae but the water is so clear.

Here is what the prior owners communicated to us:

"I asked many folks about the pool. I didn't want to have it resurfaced until I could root cause the issue and be certain it would not happen again. I believe the best answer came from Gary Pools. They say it is a chemical reaction caused by the metals in the water and the shock being used in the pool. The metals are due to the fact that the water travels through the heater, even if the heat is not on. Those pipes are copper (this is normal). The guy at Gary Pools also recommended draining enough water to expose the shallow deck and attempt to acid wash it. If that worked, then it would be worth doing the same to the rest of the pool. The fact still remains that the metals are high in the pool. I hope this helps."

Does the above make any sense? Has anyone on this forum experienced a similar issue? Do we really need to resurface (if so how?) and replace the heater?

Any help would be appreciated.

Mod: Apologies if this is the wrong forum. Please move post if needed.


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Certainly possible it’s algae and also could be metal staining. Neither is normal. With proper water chemistry, the heater shouldn’t be leaching copper into the pool even if it runs through the heater all the time.

Look through the TFP pool school and get an idea of what TFP is about. Would highly recommend testing your own water with one of the two recommended test kits and not relying on anyone else (especially a pool store) to test your water and help find out what’s going on.

One caveat on the above is, go get a metals test on a water sample from the pool store, but don’t buy anything from them or take any of their advice. Their metals test is the only one that’s reasonably reliable and it’ll help confirm if you have high copper or iron in the water. The only way to get rid of metals is to drain it out and replace with water that doesn’t have it, though some have luck removing iron with filtering.

 

[JamesW]

Probably copper.

Can you show the system?

See the below thread for a discussion about dealing with bad copper stains.

Black Algae and High Copper

I used the Copper Ionizer and did not notice copper went high 1.5. Pool wall and bottom is black color now. It looks like black Black Algae. Please advice how to control the Copper or black Algae. I used No Metal from Leslie pool and cleaned the filters, no luck.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

That much copper won't come from the heater unless the pH gets very low.

If that much copper came from the heater, the heater would be leaking.

Besides the heater, copper can be added by copper algaecide, copper ionizers and chemicals that contain copper as an extra “Bonus” chemical.

Can you open the cartridge filter and show the cartridges?

Is the pool salt or do you have a tab feeder?

What are all of the chemical readings?

Ask the service people what chemicals have been added that contain copper?

Have the water tested for copper.

 

[JamesW]

Copper stains are usually turquoise or black depending on the oxidation state of the copper and the compounds that are formed.

Black is a more oxidized form of copper.

Contact Jack's for a stain ID kit.

STAIN SOLUTION #2 – The Copper & Scale Stuff | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com

Contact Us | Jacks Magic

jacksmagic.com

 

[HermanTX]

They say it is a chemical reaction caused by the metals in the water

In addition to having a photo of the equipment pad, take a photo of the chemicals that may have been added by the previous owners.

My water runs through the heater constantly and never had a stain like this so the heater comment is a red herring. There is an issue with the chemicals that have been added or if the water added had metal in it.

 

[ajw22]

And stay out and don't listen to anything from "Gary Pools". What you were told they said is all wrong.

 

[MattInTexas]

Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for the responses. Here are some pictures of the system. Is there anything specific you need to see? Thank you!

 

[JJ_Tex]

The equipment looks pretty standard to me. Don’t love the inline chlorinator, but not the end of the world.

What about the other questions about chemicals added to the pool?

Also how do you test your water?

 

[JamesW]

The tab feeder is a huge red flag.

There is no required check valve between the tab feeder and the heater.

So, extremely corrosive liquid will migrate from the feeder into the heater and eat away the heater core.

There is a suspicious wet spot under the heater that might be from a leak.

I would have the heater examined for damage by removing the manifold to see if the heat exchanger is leaking.

Most likely, the heater is ruined and it could account for the copper stains.

The service might have added copper algaecide as well.

The heater bypass is not set correctly and the heater should not run like it is.

It also looks like the pump seal might be leaking and that should also be examined by looking under the pump for a drip.

Did you get a pool inspection by a pool professional or just a home inspection by someone who knows nothing about pools?

 

[JamesW]

The gas line going to the heater looks like it is too small.

That should be checked by a qualified licensed gas contractor.

 

[MattInTexas]

Good Morning Team,

Please bear with us. It's our first pool and we've only been in the house five days. Attached are pictures of the filters. Also attached is one picture of all the products we found in the pool bin. There are blue specs (almost as fine as sand) in the filters. Not sure if it's pool plaster or? The water was kinda gross, too. Is that normal?

*On city of New Braunfels water
*Heater for both spa and pool
*Products attached. We haven't done anything to pool yet.

Will get water tested after work today.

Y'all are amazing. Thank you!

 

[JamesW]

These cartridges are pretty much destroyed.

The gummy condition and deterioration of the rubber indicate that the chemistry has probably been really bad.

The blue is likely copper.

I would replace the cartridges.

Test everything including copper and salt and report all readings.

You should get your own good test kit and I would recommend that you switch to a salt system instead of tabs.

Note that the current readings only tell us what the current chemistry is and not what it has been.

TF-Pro Salt

tftestkits.net

 

[MattInTexas]

Thanks for the quick response. Going forward, how do we repair the pool?

1. Drain, Replaster or repaint
2. Replace heater (if we verify it's ruined)
3. Replace cartridges and clean filter
4. Fix gas line (how should the heater bypass be set?)
5. Contemplate salt conversion? (will read forum on this)
6. Ensure property chemistry going forward (will read forum on this)

We have some pool contractors coming in the next few days for quotes and don't want to look like dummies (which we are. LOL)

 

[JJ_Tex]

I see something Blue... Your "No Mor Problems" is the exact opposite and is for sure adding copper to your water. Based on the damage to the cartridges for a 2 year old pool, I suspect the prior owners had their pH way off. The heater has copper tubes inside that can be damaged by low pH and cause the copper to end up in your pool.

I would go back to post #6 and follow that advice and make sure it is copper and then you can tackle it once confirmed.

Then we can teach you how to take care of your pool. Its not hard at all, but a lot of dis-information out there from the pool stores that causes confusion and damage.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Thanks for the quick response. Going forward, how do we repair the pool?

1. Drain, Replaster or repaint
2. Replace heater (if we verify it's ruined)
3. Replace cartridges and clean filter
4. Fix gas line (how should the heater bypass be set?)
5. Contemplate salt conversion? (will read forum on this)
6. Ensure property chemistry going forward (will read forum on this)

We have some pool contractors coming in the next few days for quotes and don't want to look like dummies (which we are. LOL)

1. Hold off for now. Replaster is a last resort, painting is never recommended
2. Hopefully not
3. Yes
4. No idea
5. Good idea, but not a decision you have to make now
6. Excellent idea. Basically, you just need a good test kit and then you test frequently and only add what is needed in your pool. In our area that is typically just making sure your chlorine is where it should be to prevent algae, then periodically adding acid to keep the pH in the 7's.

 

[JamesW]

1. Drain, Replaster or repaint

I would try Jack's #2 followed by a drain and refill if it is safe to drain.

4. Fix gas line (how should the heater bypass be set?)

Bypass should close the bypass line and leave water flowing to the heater.

 

[Ahultin]

4. Fix gas line

Contact your propane supplier as they may be willing to make the corrections for free. The 1/2 flex copper is insufficient to supply the mastertemp 400 at low pressure. You currently have a 2 stage system (10psi regulator at the tank , 13" water column regulator at the house) so likely the easiest solution is to supply the 1/2 from just before the low pressure regulator then add a second low pressure regulator at the heater. At that time they can add the required shutoff valve and sediment trap.

how should the heater bypass be set?

Off pointed towards the heater when in bypass. You should have a check valve on the outlet side of the heater prior to the tee which does not appear to be present

 

[JamesW]

Contact your propane supplier as they may be willing to make the corrections for free.

Why do you think that it is propane vs. natural gas?