New pool build in LV

Jump to latest Follow Reply
C

cactus_LV

Silver Supporter
Oct 16, 2020
133
Las Vegas
Hi,

First I am super thankful for all the great help I got from this forum in the past! :)


I’m in the process of building a pool and added quite a few water features:
1x 6’ sheer (12.5’ radius)
3x 1’ rain sheer
6x deck jets
1x bubbler


Now I am trying to figure what kind of pump I will need to power all of them. I made the following assumption based on pentair specs:
6’ sheer = 72 GPM
1’ sheers = 12 GPM each
Deck jets = 5 GPM each
Bubbler = 20 - 40 GPM

So in total I need 158 - 178 GPM
Drain would be located around 4' deep and the tallest water feature is 2' heigh.

A 3HP pentair pump is able to push ~170GPM with little elevation. So I would max out 1 pump for the water features and then use another one to run pool, spa, filter and solar. I know that I am ignoring the water frictions in the pipe and I am not sure how to account for that. I assume maxing out the pump is not the best idea and running 2 pumps at 1/2 capacity would save some energy.

My idea is using 2x 3HP pentair pumps to run the water features: 1 for the big sheer and the other pump for the remaining features. And the 3rd pump for pool, spa, etc.

My PB who is only creating the plans said that 3x 3HP wouldn’t be able to run all features which doesn’t make much sense to me. She also couldn’t tell me if dedicated water feature pumps would be better for this use case - I am not sure how they would work with deck jets and sheers were you would want a certain amount of water (not too much and not too little) since you can’t adjust the RPM.


Thank you so much for reading my long description :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leebo
Since you say you'll need a new test kit.... I'd recommend this one: TF-Pro Salt. Comes with a Speed Stir type device, and better quantity of reagents than the Taylor kit. www.tftestkits.net

With all those water features be aware that you'll be battling rising pH. Talk to your Pool Builder to see if you're a candidate for an acid pump.

Maddie :flower:
 
IMO 3 VSP pumps. 2" piping minimum, 2.5" would be better.
Pump A (1) 6’ sheer = 72 GPM
Pump B (3) 1’ sheers @12 GPM each = 36 GPM total
Pump C (6) Deck jets @ 5 GPM each = 30 GPM + bubbler @ 20 - 40 GPM = 70 GPM total
 
cactus_LV said:
A 3HP pentair pump is able to push ~170GPM with little elevation. So I would max out 1 pump for the water features and then use another one to run pool, spa, filter and solar. I know that I am ignoring the water frictions in the pipe and I am not sure how to account for that. I assume maxing out the pump is not the best idea and running 2 pumps at 1/2 capacity would save some energy.
Click to expand...
Which pump is that? If it is the Intelliflo XF, then with the proper head loss in the plumbing, it could possible do that much but it would depend on the head loss in the water features. The standard Intelliflo, no way it could do that much.

cactus_LV said:
My idea is using 2x 3HP pentair pumps to run the water features: 1 for the big sheer and the other pump for the remaining features. And the 3rd pump for pool, spa, etc.
Click to expand...
That could work but I would use home runs for each each feature set.

6' sheer, 1x2.5"

1' sheers, 3x1.5"

Deck jets combined, 1x1.5"

Bubbler 1x1.5"

This would keep velocity below 6 ft/sec in each section. But it wouldn't hurt to replace the 1.5" with 2" if the cost difference isn't much.


cactus_LV said:
My PB who is only creating the plans said that 3x 3HP wouldn’t be able to run all features which doesn’t make much sense to me. She also couldn’t tell me if dedicated water feature pumps would be better for this use case - I am not sure how they would work with deck jets and sheers were you would want a certain amount of water (not too much and not too little) since you can’t adjust the RPM.
Click to expand...
I would ask why she believes that and for a detailed analysis. But your are right, it doesn't make sense.

It would be helpful to have a bit more information.

What is the make/model of all the water features?

Some sheer manufactures recommend a filter for their sheers. If this is not on the pool filtration loop, it will require a separate filter. Do you have one picked out?

What is the distance from pool to pump?
 
Lastly, what are the suction side pipe sizes?
Is the water coming from just skimmer(s)?
Any additional wall and floor intakes.
Are theses intakes going to be in addition to the filter system or shared?
 
You need a VGBA compliant intake on the wall or floor of the pool for each pump.

The number of intakes your pool is plumbed for will determine how many pumps you can have.

Is the gunite and plumbing already done?

Where are you in your pool construction?
 
Thank you so much for the quick responses @mas985 @ajw22 @BMerrill @YippeeSkippy @HermanTX ! :)

We are waiting for the permits so everything can still be changed (ideally not size or shape otherwise we have to apply for a new one).

I was looking at the "INTELLIFLO3™ VSF VARIABLE SPEED AND FLOW POOL PUMP" but I am open to other suggestion and based on my research there is only a minor difference between Jandy, Hayward and Pentair. Since we are building the pool we can pick whichever brand we want.

My GPM values come from the following features but again we don't have to use these.
Sheer: Pentair Magic Falls
Bubbler: Pentair ColorVision LED bubbler
Deck jets: Pentair MagicStream Deck Jet II

Distances:
(90deg. turns don't include the ones needed at the pump or the water feature)
Drain to pump: 43', 2x 90deg. turns
Pump to ...
6' sheer: 100', 3x 90deg. turns
3x 1' sheer: 45', 0x 90 deg. turns
bubbler: 63', 2 90 deg. turns
deck jets: 100', 3x 90deg. turns

Based on my research the 2x pumps dedicated to the water features would get a wall drain. And just to prevent any dirt in the water features I would add a very small filter like this Jandy one.
I assume running all of them through the main drain and skimmer + filter would be too much suction?

I haven't decided on the pipe sizes yet. My assumption was 3" to the big sheer and 2" for everything else, not sure about the size for the drain to pump pipe.

Thank you so much for all your help! I trust this forum 100% and the plumbers or PB very little.

@YippeeSkippy, thanks for the test kit recommendation.
 
cactus_LV said:
based on my research there is only a minor difference between Jandy, Hayward and Pentair. Since we are building the pool we can pick whichever brand we want.
Click to expand...

I think the differences in parts availability for DIY and warrantees is significant.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
cactus_LV said:
I was looking at the "INTELLIFLO3™ VSF VARIABLE SPEED AND FLOW POOL PUMP" but I am open to other suggestion and based on my research there is only a minor difference between Jandy, Hayward and Pentair. Since we are building the pool we can pick whichever brand we want.
Click to expand...
The Intelliflo3 has a runout of 170GPM @30' of head but you should never run a pump close to runout for cavitation is likely. For high volume water features, the Intelliflo XF might be a better choice and would allow you to run more features on one pump since it has a runout of over 220 GPM.

cactus_LV said:
Based on my research the 2x pumps dedicated to the water features would get a wall drain. And just to prevent any dirt in the water features I would add a very small filter like this Jandy one.
I assume running all of them through the main drain and skimmer + filter would be too much suction?
Click to expand...
Also, each pump needs it's own dedicated suction. The suction lines should never be shared by multiple pumps.


cactus_LV said:
I haven't decided on the pipe sizes yet. My assumption was 3" to the big sheer and 2" for everything else, not sure about the size for the drain to pump pipe.
Click to expand...
That would be more sufficient

But from the sheer manual:

Use a 20 micron cartridge filter to supply clean, filtered water to the waterfall.
Click to expand...
So hopefully you are planning that for the sheer.

Also, it states this:

You should plan to supply approximately 15 GPM per foot. The waterfall can operate on lower flow rates (10 GPM/ft minimum), but may not achieve the desired effect
Click to expand...
So I would plan on 15 GPM/ft which means 90 GPM for the 6' sheer and 45 GPM for the 3x1' sheers. Added to the bubblers and jets, that is a total of 205 GPM. Remember it is easy to reduce flow rates to the features but impossible to increase it if the pump is maxed out.

One suggestion is to use the XF for all sheers as those have lower head loss and pretty high volume at 135 GPM. The Intelliflo3 would work as well. And then use your main filter pump for the other features as those have much lower flow rate requirements and your main pump should be able to handle that along with regular filtering. The spa should have it's own dedicated jet pump.
 
Last edited:
cactus_LV said:
Based on my research the 2x pumps dedicated to the water features would get a wall drain. And just to prevent any dirt in the water features I would add a very small filter like this Jandy one.
Click to expand...
Just remember that each pump needs its own suction. So each water feature pump requires a separate wall drain. It is good practice to have a small filter on your water feature if there is possibility of small debris blocking the water feature. I have a waterfall feature without a filter on it because it is just an open pipe. I have a wall suction and there is rarely any debris in the pump basket. The wall suction does not pick up much debris from the water but safe bet to have a small filter if you have small openings on your water feature exit such as on sheers or deck jets.
 
Again thank you so much for the feedback @mas985 and @HermanTX!

The Intelliflo XF seems to be discontinued on the Pentair website and replaced by the Intelliflo3.

If I were to run the spa jets off a separate pump the heater would need to be connected to the pump I assume and I wouldn't be able to get warm water from solar in the spa? (maybe I am a bit confused on how to plumb that)
What is the ideal pipe diameter from drain to pump to filter to heater, etc?

I attached a diagram of my current plumbing thinking.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2023-01-22 at 1.37.46 PM.png
    Screenshot 2023-01-22 at 1.37.46 PM.png
    474.5 KB · Views: 15
cactus_LV said:
The Intelliflo XF seems to be discontinued on the Pentair website and replaced by the Intelliflo3.
Click to expand...
www.pentair.com

IntelliFloXF® Variable Speed Pool and Spa Pump

The Pentair IntelliFloXF Variable Speed Pool & Spa Inground Pool Pump is an ENERGY Star certified pool pump offering savings for large pools. Learn more.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com


cactus_LV said:
If I were to run the spa jets off a separate pump the heater would need to be connected to the pump I assume and I wouldn't be able to get warm water from solar in the spa? (maybe I am a bit confused on how to plumb that.
What is the ideal pipe diameter from drain to pump to filter to heater, etc?
Click to expand...
The way to plumb a spa with a separate pump is shown below:

1674423745758.png
There is a separate return for filtering, SWG, and heating. The jet pump is only for the jets.
 
cactus_LV said:
f I were to run the spa jets off a separate pump the heater would need to be connected to the pump I assume and I wouldn't be able to get warm water from solar in the spa? (maybe I am a bit confused on how to plumb that)
Click to expand...
Some people have put in special spa jets. These are run with a separate pump and only provide jetting action.
So this would be yet another pump i.e. #4.

The stardard returns to the spa provide the heated water as part of the standard plumbing design.
 
Off Topic, but if you plan to run these water features very much, your evaporation rate will be much greater than normal. Be sure you will be using softened water for make up water due to evaporation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesW
cactus_LV said:
If I were to run the spa jets off a separate pump the heater would need to be connected to the pump I assume and I wouldn't be able to get warm water from solar in the spa? (maybe I am a bit confused on how to plumb that)
Click to expand...
This is the way my spa is setup with one pump for filter and heater and another dedicated to the jets…

full
 
  • Like
Reactions: HermanTX and JamesW

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply