Met with a PB yesterday, the second one who said not to do SWG. Is that b/c we're in the Chicago suburbs? They're not comfortable with it? They like to discuss the lack of warranty on the pool equipment but I find that hard to believe based on what I've read elsewhere on the forum. Does anyone know a PB in the Chicago who will do this confidently?
Decided on new gunite pool construction - PB says no to SWG b/c no warranty and short lifespan of equipment(?)
- Thread starter samsoccer7
- Start date
Sounds like a TX pool builder. I have never seen a single pump, filter, heater, or heat pump that voids the warranty if used in conjunction with a SWCG. Every manufacturer has their own warranty terms outlined in the equipment owner's manual or warranty guide and it is not up to the PB.
If they're not willing to warrant the actual construction of the pool, find a different PB. They have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, which as you'll find, is an extremely common trait in "the industry".
A chlorine pool is a salt water pool and vice versa. Given enough time, the sodium level of a chlorine pool can easily meet or exceed that of a "salt water" pool.
If they're not willing to warrant the actual construction of the pool, find a different PB. They have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, which as you'll find, is an extremely common trait in "the industry".
A chlorine pool is a salt water pool and vice versa. Given enough time, the sodium level of a chlorine pool can easily meet or exceed that of a "salt water" pool.
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
Do find it hard to believe, because it is a common ploy of some lesser PB's even here in Texas. They say the same thing about well water, city's water, etc...... I think they just don't want to deal with the added start up time-frame, or, don't even understand what they do and just want to perpetrate a myth. The more reputable and experienced PB's here in Texas will push SWG's but let you decide.
That's what I've been reading all morning here so clearly they're not up to speed on this or just parroting what someone else told them.
Is there anything about our climate here in the midwest (Chicago) that would prevent us from wanting to use a SWG with our pool? We plan to have an autocover as well.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,629
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Find a different PB and be very firm with them. Let them know early on in the process that this is YOUR home, YOUR pool, and YOUR money and so you will get what YOU want. If they are uncomfortable with SWGs they can either no-bid the job or alter their warranty. Then you inform them that they are one of many PBs that you will be interviewing for the job. They will be competing. This will set them in their place and establish the tone that you are serious and not to be messed around with.
PB’s are a dime a dozen. They are all slick talkers that like to butter you up and make you think that your home is fabulous and that this is the most impressive project they will ever work on. It’s all B/S. Cold hard facts and numbers, that’s all you need right now. If they don’t want the job, they can say so.
PB’s are a dime a dozen. They are all slick talkers that like to butter you up and make you think that your home is fabulous and that this is the most impressive project they will ever work on. It’s all B/S. Cold hard facts and numbers, that’s all you need right now. If they don’t want the job, they can say so.
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Mcow
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- Jul 5, 2017
- 319
- Pool Size
- 22000
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- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Man I went through this with two different pool builds here in Texas. I let myself get talked out of it on the first one and it was my biggest regret so on the second pool I just told the PB do not bother quoting it if you will not do a SWG. I am not 100% sure about every manufacture but I know Pentair does a 3 year warranty on equipment if installed by an authorized installer. It would make zero sense for them to exclude the SWG or other equipment because they make it all (along with the other major equipment manufactures). As someone that has had both SWG is way way easier to maintain.
That's great advice. I'm finding it so hard to compare apples to apples. Also wondering how I'm gonna negotiate with these PBs, do you just tell them you have lower quotes? B/c then they tend to tout all the non-quantitative reasons to go with them vs the other guy, or start bringing up oranges that I can't quite figure out.
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
Unfortunately, it requires a ton of research outside of what they tell you or quote you. We spent a good year interviewing any and all that do pools in our area, but also seeking referrals of other pools built by them. Researched their web reviews, independent. We factored how long they have been in business, what feeling we get by what they tell us or how they represented themselves, a lot of intuition as well.
We also factored pricing to boot. We knew the amount being spent was substantial, and once a bad job is in the ground it's a forever headache. Not an easy decision, for sure. The key takeaway is not to ever rush it, even if it means skipping a season. At some point, the good mix happened for us. Some PB's know the desire you have to get a pool now and can easily play off that.
Mcow
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- Jul 5, 2017
- 319
- Pool Size
- 22000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I based a lot of the decision (both times) on how long they have been in business. The longer they have spent building a good reputation the more willing they will be to protect it in my opinion. Not sure about your area but almost all the pool builders here are really just a GC. Pretty much all the major stuff is subbed out. A bigger pool builder will more than likely bring some stuff in-hose and if not have subs that are pretty much just working for them. Smaller ones may have to use multiple subs. I kind of just use my gut also. We met with one PB and loved their design. The pricing was a little more but not out of the question and we were considered using them. Then the sales guy turned on the high pressure sales tactic. He would not send me renders or even an official bid until I gave him a deposit. This instantly set me off and they lost the job. On the bright side they had an amazing showroom and we actually found the tile we liked the most there. So general vibe goes someways too. In my experience pricing is pretty similar for the reputable builder when comparing apples to apples as much as possible . If you get a quote that is way less than the others this should be suspicious.
All that being said my first pool was built by a big builder and my second a smaller one. Communication was terrible by both and no one is going to care more about the project than you so educating yourself as much as possible on the process is a huge plus. Never feel like you should not question things and never just assume your PB or more specifically your PB subs are doing things right that concern you. I think for the most part you just have to prepare yourself for it to be a painfull process but it all becomes worth it in the end!
gingrbredman
Gold Supporter
- Jun 10, 2020
- 732
- Pool Size
- 11200
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
It has nothing to do with the suburbs, it has everything to do with the builder. Everyone in my neighborhood with a pool has a salt water pool. Three different builders actually, but not one of them had an issue with installing a salt water pool. Some builders are just stuck in their ways, and not interested in anything they don't know. They probably still install Easy Touch systems and GloBrites because that is what they know. And rather than talking why they do not, or will not do it honestly, they pull the old "warranty" or "lifespan" card out. You see it a lot with Texas builders for some reason, not as much around here.
I sent you a PM about my builder after a different post you made about PBs, who for sure does them. Did you reach out to them? I have a few more that I know of that work in the area that for sure do salt water as well.
Man, that is a tough one, its not like it was back in the day. My builder in particular is booked up through next year, and everyone I talk to who mentions building a pool has seen the same thing. We do not have a year round building schedule, and not as many good builders as say, Texas or Arizona, so the good ones are booked solid, and firm on pricing. They have people lined up, ready to drop the money, they have very little incentive to come down on pricing, if you do not want to pay it, the next person in line probably does.
You are probably best served by comparing the different builders packages, and see if they will give you some upgrades, or swap out things you want. In our area, the mention that a different builder will do it for cheaper, usually does not prompt a lower cost to get the business.
Should I be asking for renders and more detailed drawings before placing any deposit? If so then I need to start asking. They all seem to want a deposit then start on all the design work after that. I will ask though. I feel like I don't have enough builders around me to interview, I've talked to 3, and since we're building a new home as well the timeline is difficult (more expensive to build once the house is complete b/c of access).
Yes thank you I didn't b/c we are planning to go with a gunite pool and I believe that builder does fiberglass? If you have gunite builders would love some info on them. I can tell you who I've spoken with already.
Good to know on pricing, sucks that we probably can't get them any lower
gingrbredman
Gold Supporter
- Jun 10, 2020
- 732
- Pool Size
- 11200
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Yes, my builder does FG, so that would not help you so much. I missed the title that did say gunite.
Not as many gunite builders in Illinois as FG or vinyl ones, so the choices become much smaller, and pricing power becomes even more limited.
Sounds like the builder you have talked with came up from Texas and is doing work in Illinois! Either way, the advice above is solid, and right on. The builder who fed you that line doesn't sound to be the one for you anyway, so they hunt continues.
Not as many gunite builders in Illinois as FG or vinyl ones, so the choices become much smaller, and pricing power becomes even more limited.
Sounds like the builder you have talked with came up from Texas and is doing work in Illinois! Either way, the advice above is solid, and right on. The builder who fed you that line doesn't sound to be the one for you anyway, so they hunt continues.
Mcow
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- Jul 5, 2017
- 319
- Pool Size
- 22000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I am not sure how it works in your area but here it is pretty standard practice to receive a rendering with the pricing. Even the one that would not send me a rendering and pricing until I gave a deposit still did it and showed it to me in their showroom. I really have never understood how a PB can give you pricing on something custom before designing it but I guess it is just a ballpark. It was a much more drawn out deal on our first pool because we did not really know what we wanted. We knew exactly what we wanted on the second one so essentially I just gave the PB's the details but I always told them if they had suggestions please include them. There is almost always something you did not fully think through and you are designing a pool once maybe twice in a lifetime where they do it everyday.
To echo what gingerbredman said above probably very little room for negotiation on pricing right now. Even attempting to use other bids to get one to match or better it probably will not work. Currently both pricing and demand are still really high. I am guessing though this may level off soon. With the higher interest rates less people will be doing cash out refis to put pools in like so many people did over the last couple years. Or it may not. I think Covid may have permanently changed the way people view the importance of creating their own personal oasis at home instead of doing things like travel and expensive vacations.
Toxophilite
Silver Supporter
Before deposit, all our renderings were on their software, which had a huge screen as we adjusted everything. I was welcome to review, change, etc...., at any time I wanted to drop by and discuss, but did not get a copy to take home until after initial signing and small deposit.
From what I came to eventually understand, some PB's make money also by charging realtors for nice renderings they put in listings to show backyard. I've seen these ocassionaly on RE listings, and not only does it enhance the listing with "potentiality", but the watermark on the rendering gives the PB some advertising. I'd assume realtors before were surely getting renderings under false pretense.
From what I came to eventually understand, some PB's make money also by charging realtors for nice renderings they put in listings to show backyard. I've seen these ocassionaly on RE listings, and not only does it enhance the listing with "potentiality", but the watermark on the rendering gives the PB some advertising. I'd assume realtors before were surely getting renderings under false pretense.
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- May 23, 2015
- 24,629
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
August … Chicago …. You’re not getting a pool this year.
Make your start date next spring (don’t build pools over winter, it’s a horrible idea) and take your time interviewing PBs and getting “budgetary” quotes. The losers will shake out quickly and the quality ones will go the distance with you as you take time to decide.
Make your start date next spring (don’t build pools over winter, it’s a horrible idea) and take your time interviewing PBs and getting “budgetary” quotes. The losers will shake out quickly and the quality ones will go the distance with you as you take time to decide.
Thanks. We are not wanting one this year anyway but we'd like to time it well with the home construction to get the bigger parts done when there's easy access. Yes a couple companies have been hanging with us but trying to trim it down. Still hard to get a quote with a SWG for some reason.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,629
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Then tell them to just leave extra room in the plumbing on the equipment pad and you’ll do it yourself. It’s not hard to do and if you’re not comfortable with it you can hire a plumber or handyman to do it. Part of the reluctance might also be scarcity - SWG’s became very popular the past two years especially with the pandemic surge in pool builds and suppliers have not been able to keep up with demand. Even pool builders are having a hard time getting equipment. So they may be trying to offer you what they have in stock as opposed to what you want. But fight for it or tell them to just leave you the space and you’ll do it later. You’ll need about 24-32” of straight PVC pipe right after your heater (assuming you get one) and before any return valves. Most SWG owner manuals have installation guides showing the required plumbing setup.
And, when you tell them not to bother and you’ll do it yourself, they hate that because they’ve lost the argument. Some of them will make up BS about how they’re not allowed to build you a pool without proper sanitizing equipment installed because of “code” but that’s nonsense. As I said, your money so your pool, you get want you want or else they can go take a walk …
Mcow
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- Jul 5, 2017
- 319
- Pool Size
- 22000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
To this point you can always have them install an inline chlorine feeder since it is a fairly in-expensive part and just not use it on a regular basis. I actually wish I had asked for one for use on the start up and possible occasionally during the lower temps the SWG does not work (although I just use liquid most of the time since not much is needed anyway)