Sub Poured Muratic Acid On Marble Pavers NOW WHAT ?

[parkinsmith]

Typically, mortared stones get grouted and not close set with sand in the joints.

Sand is used when you loose set the stones.

That is what I was thinking but was not sure . At this point what can be done in between these stones? Some are so tight there is no space for sand or grout , in other places there is a gap that you could grout. The issue is it is very inconsistent. Some places there is space for grout , in others there is not.

 

[parkinsmith]

@mcleod

Agree 100% with what you posted. My only additional comment is that this should entirely fall on the PB to solve. The OP needs to state clearly, and in writing (registered mail), that the current state of the decking is unacceptable and the finish of the stone must be returned to “like new” conditions. If the PB resists and tries to deflect blame, then court action is likely the only route to financial recovery. I would still bring in independent masons to assess the stone damage and offer their opinions on what it would take to restore the stone using the process the manufacturer does to get a feel for the costs involved. And that is also expert testimony that can be used in a legal challenge if needed. The PB should be offered many chances to rectify the situation using the advice of real masons so that he can not claim that the owner went off and did damage on their own. If the PB walks away and decides to fight, at some point you can have the stones repaired at your own expense and then you work through litigation to recover that expense.

I would really seek the advice of a lawyer before doing anything more than gathering information about possible fixes. At no point should you or the PB be allowed to touch the deck until a path to recovery is determined. That may mean living with an unfinished deck for months while this gets sorted out. That’s painful to contemplate but it is not the end of the world either.

Also, don’t hold back the plaster payment for this. Contractually you are obligated to pay that. While the urge would be to squeeze the PB for that money, the pool plaster has nothing to do with the decking and you don’t want to be seen as in default of your contract and/or unreasonable. Hold back whatever final payment is scheduled and hopefully there was a final 10% in the contract.

These are all great points, thank you, The plaster draw is due Wednesday when they plaster and I will pay that , it is the last payment on the original contract . The paver installation cost was done via an additional work order and is not in the main contract, it is due when the paver installation is completed . What are your thoughts on withholding that payment ? I was thinking I would speak to the PB about that telling them I feel the right thing for them to do is wavie it, I have been documenting all the deck issues in writing with them. I already paid for all the stone materials.

 

[JamesW]

I would remove all stones and redo everything.

 

[Mcow]

Ugh I saw your before and after pics and not even being my pool I wanted to cry. Hoping you get a good solution. To a much smaller scale I went through an experience with an incompetent welder recently for a metal fence. The day after finishing the fence the welds broke on several gates. I spent weeks trying to get the guy out to fix it and finally just gave up and hired another welder to do it right. Frustrating to have to pay twice to have something fixed.

Unfortunately besides a few trades (electricians, plumbers and HVAC for example) there is not a general contractor license required state wide. Some municipalities do require it and worth looking in to.

 

[JamesW]

Remove everything, replace any damaged stone, provide consistent grout lines and provide adequate expansion joints.

Sorry if this is inconvenient to the builder, but you paid good money to have this done exactly right; not some botched ugly nonsense.

 

[JamesW]

How much time has been spent just installing the pavers up to this point?

 

[mcleod]

Thanks for all the guidence , I have put info and some follow-up questions below in purple.


Having the PB provide an ample supply of whiskey is hardily endorsed. It gives comfort, contemplation, and occasionally disconnection. Happy to be an expert witness in this regard. HA HA !

I've encountered your kind of exhaustion before and can assure you there is an end. Now to specifics.

1) The supplier's stone guy strongly suggested I immediately do a non acidic alkaline wash that they have to maybe try to help the stone , He indicated this should be done sooner than later . Not sure why?

Acid, when dry, will leave crystals that can be reactivated with water. This is why you neutralize, which means you balance out the pH. The number 7 on that scale is what you are aiming for. This can be tested with pH strips (not pool ones) but laboratory grade. Inexpensive. Happy to explain how to use once what you've got them. It might be obtained at lab supply houses in Dallas. Certainly on Amazon (Amazon.com : hydrion test strips).

I will order the test strips and look forward to the coaching on how to use them. The stonescapes refers to pool plaster type they will be doing when they plaster my pool ON WEDNESDAY and then they Acid Wash the pool plaster on THURSDAY and and fill the pool, I tell you this as my thought was to try and get the PH neutralizer onto the deck before the new plaster and water goes in the pool on Wednesday I did not want any of the solution ending up in the new pool on the new plaster while I am also trying to balance water for first time. Another question: does the Ammonia wash have to be repeated more than once ? It's possible that it needs a second wash

You don't need something from the supplier. Use Ammonia, lemon scent, mixed in water. I would be using pH strips to measure the acid in the stone, the ammonia in the water, and the stone once more after the rinse. I will fill in the details when you're ready. Sooner is better but the damage is done so you could walk to this solution. I think sooner, like tomorrow, early evening or Tuesday AM. What would be the ratio of water to Ammonia if I am mixing this up. How best to apply / rinse etc.

2)This installation was not very good, ( see below) in many areas the pavers are tight and touching with no visible space, in other areas there are wider gaps that need to be filled. The sub did sand once and 99% is gone ( see pics ) The PB wants the sub to sand the lines in between the pavers to address this on TUESDAY ( before plaster wednesday) . I really don't want the sub touching the deck and I am not sure what will happen if I do not allow this and just leave it as is. Any feedback or advice ? I am really at a loss.

Are the edges of the tiles straight and clean or distressed and rough? Some are very clean and straight and tight to the next stone, in some places they are a little rough not a lot .

If the former then the narrow joints could be widened with a diamond wheel (in the hands of professional) to the width appropriate for cementitious grouting. If the latter then the approach is a couple of steps longer.

Any sense on how long I can wait to grout or sand , any issues or damage since these are on concrete applied with mortar? Can I wait on this step? In a lot of places it looks like there is no place for the sand to go , no spaces, in a handful of places there are the wider gaps

The reply to the PB should be NO!!! Don't let them push you around. I'm not quite the expert here but the thought is if the sand were used what's to stop it from being blown or washed into the pool? Now or in the future? I'd tell him no.

That is what I was thinking , none of the sand stayed in the pavers the first time he did it

START A PAPER TRAIL. Everything is in writing. Email him that sanding is are proceeding Tuesday. Phone conversations are summarized in emails as well. Have witnesses when you meet with PB if you can. Got it

3. Stonescapes plaster is scheduled for WEDNESDAY

I don't know to what this refers and where it butts up to the flat stone. My gut says no. However, you could ask the PB if he will imdenify you against any unforseen repairs to the flatwork that would, as a by-product, damage the stonescape. In writing of course. This is the plastering process for the pool; the entire deck and coping is covered in plastic during this process .



4. Acid wash and start to fill on THURSDAY

This is referring to what? The pool, the stonescape, the flatwork? Imagine worst case scenarios, say , full rip out and reinstall or sand blasting. Could you imagine any ancillary damage caused be such work? if so, then stop everything until all is sorted out. The PB will threaten the scheduling, talk about industry standards, blah, blah, blah. There are two agendas working. The PB wants the problem to go away; you want the pool of your dreams. Yours is the superior position. This is where you come from. I do not think getting the pool plastered and filled with water could do further deck damage as the deck is covered during the entire process. (Unless having the deck being covered in plastic for a day or so in the heat will cause issues) The only issues will be how to handle the pool with water in it when we sand or grout the pavers, and /or restore. that process, as you've surmised, would have little or no impact. My hesitancy is focused on the work that may have to be done on the decking. It will generate dust but this, too, can be handled.



I know you want them gone but you are in the middle so you've got to slug on bit farther. Ask the PB for his liability insurance certificate. In fact ask to have his agent isssue a certificate with you and your husband named as additionally insured. Got it



Don't Pay. Period. This is your club. I presume that Texas has consumer laws, see what applies to you. I don't know if contractor licenses are required in this state. If so, then contact the licensing dept. that handles such things and file a complaint.



Red Wine

I got tricks for that. GREAT I know I will need to learn those tricks !



I'm including a few others on this missive. @JoyfulNoise @Dirk



Mc

My responses are in Red

Thanks for all the guidence , I have put info and some follow-up questions below in purple.


Having the PB provide an ample supply of whiskey is hardily endorsed. It gives comfort, contemplation, and occasionally disconnection. Happy to be an expert witness in this regard. HA HA !

I've encountered your kind of exhaustion before and can assure you there is an end. Now to specifics.

1) The supplier's stone guy strongly suggested I immediately do a non acidic alkaline wash that they have to maybe try to help the stone , He indicated this should be done sooner than later . Not sure why?

Acid, when dry, will leave crystals that can be reactivated with water. This is why you neutralize, which means you balance out the pH. The number 7 on that scale is what you are aiming for. This can be tested with pH strips (not pool ones) but laboratory grade. Inexpensive. Happy to explain how to use once what you've got them. It might be obtained at lab supply houses in Dallas. Certainly on Amazon (Amazon.com : hydrion test strips).

I will order the test strips and look forward to the coaching on how to use them. The stonescapes refers to pool plaster type they will be doing when they plaster my pool ON WEDNESDAY and then they Acid Wash the pool plaster on THURSDAY and and fill the pool, I tell you this as my thought was to try and get the PH neutralizer onto the deck before the new plaster and water goes in the pool on Wednesday I did not want any of the solution ending up in the new pool on the new plaster while I am also trying to balance water for first time. Another question: does the Ammonia wash have to be repeated more than once ? It's possible tho, though not likely. this is where I would be using the pH strips. the procedure...wet the acid damaged with water, rub with a gloved hand, wait 90 seconds, lay the pH strip face down in the puddle, and take the reading. If acidic, the pH number will be below 7. I guess you could see a reading of 2 or 3

Take 1 part ammonia to 3 parts water (water first, then carefully pour the ammonia in. Wear safety glasses and don't stick your face close to the ammonia). DO NOT DO THIS IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT. BEST TO DO EARLY IN THE MORNING as the surface temp is cooler. Spray or mop the solution on the affected areas. Let sit for for 90 seconds. Rinse with water. Could use your hose, spraying into the soft scape. NOW STOP. This should be enough.

You don't need something from the supplier. Use Ammonia, lemon scent, mixed in water. I would be using pH strips to measure the acid in the stone, the ammonia in the water, and the stone once more after the rinse. I will fill in the details when you're ready. Sooner is better but the damage is done so you could walk to this solution. I think sooner, like tomorrow, early evening or Tuesday AM. What would be the ratio of water to Ammonia if I am mixing this up. How best to apply / rinse etc. See Above

2)This installation was not very good, ( see below) in many areas the pavers are tight and touching with no visible space, in other areas there are wider gaps that need to be filled. The sub did sand once and 99% is gone ( see pics ) The PB wants the sub to sand the lines in between the pavers to address this on TUESDAY ( before plaster wednesday) . I really don't want the sub touching the deck and I am not sure what will happen if I do not allow this and just leave it as is. Any feedback or advice ? I am really at a loss.

Are the edges of the tiles straight and clean or distressed and rough? Some are very clean and straight and tight to the next stone; in some places, they are a little rough not a lot . So I'm assuming the edges are straight and finished (check your unset pieces). Narrow joints could be widened with a grinder before/after sandblasting, should that be the path forward. This doesn't have to be handled now.

If the former then the narrow joints could be widened with a diamond wheel (in the hands of professional) to the width appropriate for cementitious grouting. If the latter then the approach is a couple of steps longer.

Any sense on how long I can wait to grout or sand , any issues or damage since these are on concrete applied with mortar? Can I wait on this step? In a lot of places it looks like there is no place for the sand to go , no spaces, in a handful of places there are the wider gaps A lot of potentialities in this question. Protect the stone with plastic or Therma-ply (first) then plywood. The latter should be put down where ever equipment will be rolled in or set up or where work would be performed.

The reply to the PB should be NO!!! Don't let them push you around. I'm not quite the expert here but the thought is if the sand were used what's to stop it from being blown or washed into the pool? Now or in the future? I'd tell him no.

That is what I was thinking , none of the sand stayed in the pavers the first time he did it. You will grout. Now you get to pick a color. Yippee! A colleague would recommend Customs Prism grout.

START A PAPER TRAIL. Everything is in writing. Email him that sanding is are proceeding Tuesday. Phone conversations are summarized in emails as well. Have witnesses when you meet with PB if you can. Got it

3. Stonescapes plaster is scheduled for WEDNESDAY

I don't know to what this refers and where it butts up to the flat stone. My gut says no. However, you could ask the PB if he will imdenify you against any unforseen repairs to the flatwork that would, as a by-product, damage the stonescape. In writing of course. This is the plastering process for the pool; the entire deck and coping is covered in plastic during this process .



4. Acid wash and start to fill on THURSDAY

This is referring to what? The pool, the stonescape, the flatwork? Imagine worst case scenarios, say , full rip out and reinstall or sand blasting. Could you imagine any ancillary damage caused be such work? if so, then stop everything until all is sorted out. The PB will threaten the scheduling, talk about industry standards, blah, blah, blah. There are two agendas working. The PB wants the problem to go away; you want the pool of your dreams. Yours is the superior position. This is where you come from. I do not think getting the pool plastered and filled with water could do further deck damage as the deck is covered during the entire process. (Unless having the deck being covered in plastic for a day or so in the heat will cause issues) The only issues will be how to handle the pool with water in it when we sand or grout the pavers, and /or restore.



I know you want them gone but you are in the middle so you've got to slug on bit farther. Ask the PB for his liability insurance certificate. In fact ask to have his agent isssue a certificate with you and your husband named as additionally insured. Got it



Don't Pay. Period. This is your club. I presume that Texas has consumer laws, see what applies to you. I don't know if contractor licenses are required in this state. If so, then contact the licensing dept. that handles such things and file a complaint.



Red Wine

I got tricks for that. GREAT I know I will need to learn those tricks !



I'm including a few others on this missive. @JoyfulNoise @Dirk



Mc

 

[Kaylee34]

Just a suggestion that may or may not be worth anything but if you have two extra stones (or large enough pieces) I'd recreate the acid damage on one stone then take the damaged piece and an original piece to a local sandblaster and see if they can recreate the finish for you. I suppose it depends on how deeply the acid penetrated the stone.

 

[parkinsmith]

My responses are in Red

My responses are in Red

Take 1 part ammonia to 3 parts water (water first, then carefully pour the ammonia in. Wear safety glasses and don't stick your face close to the ammonia). DO NOT DO THIS IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT. BEST TO DO EARLY IN THE MORNING as the surface temp is cooler. Spray or mop the solution on the affected areas. Let sit for for 90 seconds. Rinse with water. Could use your hose, spraying into the soft scape. NOW STOP. This should be enough.

Thank you for these instructions !!

QUICK UPDATE & QUESTIONS FOR YOU & THE OTHERS @JoyfulNoise @Dirk

1. I talked to PB today and will be following up in writing. I told them no more work on the deck and not to send the sub out . I sent them images. They want to bring out the owner of the sub business they used for the pavers ( it was his crew that did this ) have a meeting and have him see the deck and the damage. Any advice from you guys about this?

I am afraid of him coming up with some stupid idea or fix and doing further damage , I am not sure I trust these people but the meeting is something that needs to be done.

Any suggestions on how I could find some kind of expert or people that work with marble decking so I can get my own eyeballed assessment of the damage ASAP? I am close to Dallas /Ft Worth about 90 mins away. I don't think leaving it up to the guys who allowed this work to be done to offer up the status and possible fix. .

As suggested by @JoyfulNoise I think it best I do not touch the deck and apply anything so they can see it as it is now. Is delaying the treatment to try and improve the PH going to screw it up any more than it is now. I do not have a timeframe for this meeting yet


2)This installation was not very good, ( see below) in many areas the pavers are tight and touching with no visible space, in other areas there are wider gaps that need to be filled. The sub did sand once and 99% is gone ( see pics ) The PB wants the sub to sand the lines in between the pavers to address this on TUESDAY ( before plaster wednesday) . I really don't want the sub touching the deck and I am not sure what will happen if I do not allow this and just leave it as is. Any feedback or advice ? I am really at a loss.

Are the edges of the tiles straight and clean or distressed and rough? Some are very clean and straight and tight to the next stone; in some places, they are a little rough not a lot . So I'm assuming the edges are straight and finished (check your unset pieces). Narrow joints could be widened with a grinder before/after sandblasting, should that be the path forward. This doesn't have to be handled now. Yes the unset pieces are straight and finished. So you think it's ok to just leave as is until the path forward is figured out , it seems like it would be.

If the former then the narrow joints could be widened with a diamond wheel (in the hands of professional) to the width appropriate for cementitious grouting. If the latter then the approach is a couple of steps longer.

Any sense on how long I can wait to grout or sand , any issues or damage since these are on concrete applied with mortar? Can I wait on this step? In a lot of places it looks like there is no place for the sand to go , no spaces, in a handful of places there are the wider gaps A lot of potentialities in this question. Protect the stone with plastic or Therma-ply (first) then plywood. The latter should be put down where ever equipment will be rolled in or set up or where work would be performed. The deck will be covered for plaster , they will then remove the plastic when they are done ( 2) days . Any issues you all see just leaving it as is now uncovered once the pool is filled ?

The reply to the PB should be NO!!! Don't let them push you around. I'm not quite the expert here but the thought is if the sand were used what's to stop it from being blown or washed into the pool? Now or in the future? I'd tell him no.

That is what I was thinking , none of the sand stayed in the pavers the first time he did it. You will grout. Now you get to pick a color. Yippee! A colleague would recommend Customs Prism grout. WIll look at that for grout, the deck is very whote ( or was so I would want to do a true white. It took me two months to pick the tile grout for the waterline ( hated doing that )

Don't Pay. Period. This is your club. I presume that Texas has consumer laws, see what applies to you. I don't know if contractor licenses are required in this state. If so, then contact the licensing dept. that handles such things and file a complaint.
I will pay the PB the plaster draw on plaster day as suggested by @JoyfulNoise that draw does not include the paver installation that was separate from the original contract I will not pay the additional work order for the paver installation.

Red Wine

I got tricks for that. GREAT I know I will need to learn those tricks ! For now instead of learning red wine tricks I just decided to have a glass .

Thanks again for all this help. VERY GREATFUL !

Jen

 

[Toxophilite]

For the stone you wanted and are expected to pay for, it's now like a broken mirror. There's no repair. Just replace.

 

[mcleod]

Take 1 part ammonia to 3 parts water (water first, then carefully pour the ammonia in. Wear safety glasses and don't stick your face close to the ammonia). DO NOT DO THIS IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT. BEST TO DO EARLY IN THE MORNING as the surface temp is cooler. Spray or mop the solution on the affected areas. Let sit for for 90 seconds. Rinse with water. Could use your hose, spraying into the soft scape. NOW STOP. This should be enough.

Thank you for these instructions !!

QUICK UPDATE & QUESTIONS FOR YOU & THE OTHERS @JoyfulNoise @Dirk

My answers in red.

1. I talked to PB today and will be following up in writing. I told them no more work on the deck and not to send the sub out . I sent them images. They want to bring out the owner of the sub business they used for the pavers ( it was his crew that did this ) have a meeting and have him see the deck and the damage. Any advice from you guys about this? Yes, they must be permitted to see the aftermath. Again, unfamiliar with Contractor Law in Texas but it would be reasonable that they provide a written, detailed proposal as to the remedies they would undertake.

I am afraid of him coming up with some stupid idea or fix and doing further damage , I am not sure I trust these people but the meeting is something that needs to be done.

Any suggestions on how I could find some kind of expert or people that work with marble decking so I can get my own eyeballed assessment of the damage ASAP? I am close to Dallas /Ft Worth about 90 mins away. I don't think leaving it up to the guys who allowed this work to be done to offer up the status and possible fix. Where are you in the metroplex? In which direction form DFW?

As suggested by @JoyfulNoise I think it best I do not touch the deck and apply anything so they can see it as it is now. Is delaying the treatment to try and improve the PH going to screw it up any more than it is now. I do not have a timeframe for this meeting yet The damage is done. Rain might have an impact but the major damage is done IMHO.


2)This installation was not very good, ( see below) in many areas the pavers are tight and touching with no visible space, in other areas there are wider gaps that need to be filled. The sub did sand once and 99% is gone ( see pics ) The PB wants the sub to sand the lines in between the pavers to address this on TUESDAY ( before plaster wednesday) . I really don't want the sub touching the deck and I am not sure what will happen if I do not allow this and just leave it as is. Any feedback or advice ? I am really at a loss.

Are the edges of the tiles straight and clean or distressed and rough? Some are very clean and straight and tight to the next stone; in some places, they are a little rough not a lot . So I'm assuming the edges are straight and finished (check your unset pieces). Narrow joints could be widened with a grinder before/after sandblasting, should that be the path forward. This doesn't have to be handled now. Yes the unset pieces are straight and finished. So you think it's ok to just leave as is until the path forward is figured out , it seems like it would be. Yes

If the former then the narrow joints could be widened with a diamond wheel (in the hands of professional) to the width appropriate for cementitious grouting. If the latter then the approach is a couple of steps longer.

Any sense on how long I can wait to grout or sand , any issues or damage since these are on concrete applied with mortar? Can I wait on this step? In a lot of places it looks like there is no place for the sand to go , no spaces, in a handful of places there are the wider gaps A lot of potentialities in this question. Protect the stone with plastic or Therma-ply (first) then plywood. The latter should be put down where ever equipment will be rolled in or set up or where work would be performed. The deck will be covered for plaster , they will then remove the plastic when they are done ( 2) days . Any issues you all see just leaving it as is now uncovered once the pool is filled ? The only issue, and perhaps others have input here, is the subsequent work of remediation or replacement will generate dust or sand that would likely get in the pool. Mitigation of these factors is possible but to what extent required needs an eyes-on visit.

The reply to the PB should be NO!!! Don't let them push you around. I'm not quite the expert here but the thought is if the sand were used what's to stop it from being blown or washed into the pool? Now or in the future? I'd tell him no.

That is what I was thinking , none of the sand stayed in the pavers the first time he did it. You will grout. Now you get to pick a color. Yippee! A colleague would recommend Customs Prism grout. WIll look at that for grout, the deck is very whote ( or was so I would want to do a true white. It took me two months to pick the tile grout for the waterline ( hated doing that )

Don't Pay. Period. This is your club. I presume that Texas has consumer laws, see what applies to you. I don't know if contractor licenses are required in this state. If so, then contact the licensing dept. that handles such things and file a complaint.
I will pay the PB the plaster draw on plaster day as suggested by @JoyfulNoise that draw does not include the paver installation that was separate from the original contract I will not pay the additional work order for the paver installation. Good

Red Wine

I got tricks for that. GREAT I know I will need to learn those tricks ! For now instead of learning red wine tricks I just decided to have a glass .

Thanks again for all this help. VERY GREATFUL !

Jen

 

[parkinsmith]

My answers in red.

My answers in red.

My answers in red.

1. I talked to PB today and will be following up in writing. I told them no more work on the deck and not to send the sub out . I sent them images. They want to bring out the owner of the sub business they used for the pavers ( it was his crew that did this ) have a meeting and have him see the deck and the damage. Any advice from you guys about this? Yes, they must be permitted to see the aftermath. Again, unfamiliar with Contractor Law in Texas but it would be reasonable that they provide a written, detailed proposal as to the remedies they would undertake. Thanks , good advice

I am afraid of him coming up with some stupid idea or fix and doing further damage , I am not sure I trust these people but the meeting is something that needs to be done.

Any suggestions on how I could find some kind of expert or people that work with marble decking so I can get my own eyeballed assessment of the damage ASAP? I am close to Dallas /Ft Worth about 90 mins away. I don't think leaving it up to the guys who allowed this work to be done to offer up the status and possible fix. Where are you in the metroplex? In which direction form DFW? I am between Dallas and Waco , I always use Dallas or Ft. Worth vendors and contractors out here as there are really not any.

As suggested by @JoyfulNoise I think it best I do not touch the deck and apply anything so they can see it as it is now. Is delaying the treatment to try and improve the PH going to screw it up any more than it is now. I do not have a timeframe for this meeting yet The damage is done. Rain might have an impact but the major damage is done IMHO. RAIN ??? How does rain effect this issue ?? After they put the acid on that day later it rained hard . The guy at the marble place told me until I do a wash to lower PH I should wet the deck early AM and evening , is this causing more harm? Should I be doing that ?


2)This installation was not very good, ( see below) in many areas the pavers are tight and touching with no visible space, in other areas there are wider gaps that need to be filled. The sub did sand once and 99% is gone ( see pics ) The PB wants the sub to sand the lines in between the pavers to address this on TUESDAY ( before plaster wednesday) . I really don't want the sub touching the deck and I am not sure what will happen if I do not allow this and just leave it as is. Any feedback or advice ? I am really at a loss.

Are the edges of the tiles straight and clean or distressed and rough? Some are very clean and straight and tight to the next stone; in some places, they are a little rough not a lot . So I'm assuming the edges are straight and finished (check your unset pieces). Narrow joints could be widened with a grinder before/after sandblasting, should that be the path forward. This doesn't have to be handled now. Yes the unset pieces are straight and finished. So you think it's ok to just leave as is until the path forward is figured out , it seems like it would be. Yes

If the former then the narrow joints could be widened with a diamond wheel (in the hands of professional) to the width appropriate for cementitious grouting. If the latter then the approach is a couple of steps longer.

Any sense on how long I can wait to grout or sand , any issues or damage since these are on concrete applied with mortar? Can I wait on this step? In a lot of places it looks like there is no place for the sand to go , no spaces, in a handful of places there are the wider gaps A lot of potentialities in this question. Protect the stone with plastic or Therma-ply (first) then plywood. The latter should be put down where ever equipment will be rolled in or set up or where work would be performed. The deck will be covered for plaster , they will then remove the plastic when they are done ( 2) days . Any issues you all see just leaving it as is now uncovered once the pool is filled ? The only issue, and perhaps others have input here, is the subsequent work of remediation or replacement will generate dust or sand that would likely get in the pool. Mitigation of these factors is possible but to what extent required needs an eyes-on visit. Agree, when work is going to be done once a path forward is deternined the pool must be protected . This is something that I will need to look into when meeting with experts but seems like there would be some sort of procedure for this .

The reply to the PB should be NO!!! Don't let them push you around. I'm not quite the expert here but the thought is if the sand were used what's to stop it from being blown or washed into the pool? Now or in the future? I'd tell him no.

That is what I was thinking , none of the sand stayed in the pavers the first time he did it. You will grout. Now you get to pick a color. Yippee! A colleague would recommend Customs Prism grout. WIll look at that for grout, the deck is very whote ( or was so I would want to do a true white. It took me two months to pick the tile grout for the waterline ( hated doing that )

Don't Pay. Period. This is your club. I presume that Texas has consumer laws, see what applies to you. I don't know if contractor licenses are required in this state. If so, then contact the licensing dept. that handles such things and file a complaint.
I will pay the PB the plaster draw on plaster day as suggested by @JoyfulNoise that draw does not include the paver installation that was separate from the original contract I will not pay the additional work order for the paver installation. Good

Red Wine

I got tricks for that. GREAT I know I will need to learn those tricks ! For now instead of learning red wine tricks I just decided to have a glass .

Thanks again for all this help. VERY GREATFUL !

Jen

 

[mcleod]

You live in or near Clifton? No restoration experts in Waco? Sidestep the rain issue by applying the ammonia and water now.

 

[parkinsmith]

You live in or near Clifton? No restoration experts in Waco? Sidestep the rain issue by applying the ammonia and water now.

Yes near Clifton , doubt it in Waco but will take a look in our experience living here the Waco vendors for just about everything are not great but will also give that a shot . As far as the rain issue...does water do further damage? Like I said the marble place told me to wet the deck before sun up , after sun down ? I was doing that . Will doing the Ammonia change the look at all ? I think the PB needs to see this damage as it is ? BTW ... Good Morning !

 

[mcleod]

Jen...just wash the areas with the ammonia water solution early in the day before the surface temperature gets too hot. The ammonia neutralizes whatever acid remains. RInse with water.

 

[mcleod]

Yes near Clifton , doubt it in Waco but will take a look in our experience living here the Waco vendors for just about everything are not great but will also give that a shot . As far as the rain issue...does water do further damage? Like I said the marble place told me to wet the deck before sun up , after sun down ? I was doing that . Will doing the Ammonia change the look at all ? I think the PB needs to see this damage as it is ? BTW ... Good Morning !

PS then you can stop wetting the surface morning and night. Good Morning back at ya.

 

[JamesW]

The ammonia neutralizes whatever acid remains. RInse with water.

What about using baking soda?

 

[mcleod]

What about using baking soda?

Yes it can be used. I’ve found ammonia more efficient. Read here. How to Use Baking Soda to Neutralize HCL

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yes it can be used. I’ve found ammonia more efficient. Read here. How to Use Baking Soda to Neutralize HCL

Ammonia is less harsh on the surrounding soil and landscaping as well since it is a nitrogen source that plants can use. Baking soda adds alkalinity and sodicity to the soil which can damage plants.

Sorry, but I did not see a lot of replies to this thread because there has been a lot of replies inside Quoted spaces. Just as a general rule of thumb, putting replies INSIDE of quoted posts tends to hide all of those replies and makes them much harder to see. I know you want to directly answer questions in order, but it's best practice to keep quoted posts separate from replies ...

Agree so far with everything and would suggest to the OP that any face-to-face meeting with the pool builder includes someone, like a friend, that YOU pick to be your scribe and have them take notes. That way you can speak freely and you can have someone to back you up in case the PB pulls in the subcontractor owner and they start bullying you. Believe me, they are "friends" or, at the very least, professional acquaintances and they are going to meet together BEFORE they ever meet with you so that they can get their stories synced up and pretend to be on the same page. That puts you at a severe disadvantage and makes you look unreasonable if you question them ... get a friend to help or some disinterested third party. You should NOT meet alone with them. A lawyer would be awesome but that might spook them too ...

 

[mcleod]

Ammonia is less harsh on the surrounding soil and landscaping as well since it is a nitrogen source that plants can use. Baking soda adds alkalinity and sodicity to the soil which can damage plants.

Sorry, but I did not see a lot of replies to this thread because there has been a lot of replies inside Quoted spaces. Just as a general rule of thumb, putting replies INSIDE of quoted posts tends to hide all of those replies and makes them much harder to see. I know you want to directly answer questions in order, but it's best practice to keep quoted posts separate from replies ...

Agree so far with everything and would suggest to the OP that any face-to-face meeting with the pool builder includes someone, like a friend, that YOU pick to be your scribe and have them take notes. That way you can speak freely and you can have someone to back you up in case the PB pulls in the subcontractor owner and they start bullying you. Believe me, they are "friends" or, at the very least, professional acquaintances and they are going to meet together BEFORE they ever meet with you so that they can get their stories synced up and pretend to be on the same page. That puts you at a severe disadvantage and makes you look unreasonable if you question them ... get a friend to help or some disinterested third party. You should NOT meet alone with them. A lawyer would be awesome but that might spook them too ...

Thank you for the heads up @JoyfulNoise