Rapid pH increase with SWCG
- Thread starter flippinGeo
- Start date
@JamesW OK, so you statement about brushing the other day piqued my interests. I don't brush nearly as often as I should. However, I just decided to research the topic of brushing a bit more. Seems that my full-time use of the stainless brush is a horrible idea. I have to plead ignorance. The home we bought came with the pool, and the previous owner left behind a SS brush. I "assumed" that SS was standard for plaster (I grew up with a vinyl pool). Rookie mistake.
Apparently the SS and the hybrid nylon/SS are really just intended for heavy grime/algae? So whenever I add a bunch of chems, salt, etc. I always brush, and pretty good. However, I'm probably damaging my plaster every time. Needless to say, I just bought a nylon brush. I'm curious as to whether the clouds that appear when I brush now (SS) will still be there with the nylon. The worst part is, when we had this thing replastered 3 years ago, I used nothing but the SS brush throughout the curing process. I probably killed it, which is why it might be deteriorating/pitting so much.
So does this relate to pH issue. I'm not sure. However, I will say my TA tends to be stable around 80. It was very unusual for my TA to rise so much that week I was away. However, before I left, I dosed a large amount of acid, then brushed the Crud out of it. To the point, the entire water column was cloudy for a few hours. I wonder if my heavy SS brushing created enough calcium to bump up my CH and bring my TA out of the zone.
Anyway, I still can't seem to understand my pH rise, but the CH increase is making more sense. I've not brushed since I got back and the CH has remained stable.
Apparently the SS and the hybrid nylon/SS are really just intended for heavy grime/algae? So whenever I add a bunch of chems, salt, etc. I always brush, and pretty good. However, I'm probably damaging my plaster every time. Needless to say, I just bought a nylon brush. I'm curious as to whether the clouds that appear when I brush now (SS) will still be there with the nylon. The worst part is, when we had this thing replastered 3 years ago, I used nothing but the SS brush throughout the curing process. I probably killed it, which is why it might be deteriorating/pitting so much.
So does this relate to pH issue. I'm not sure. However, I will say my TA tends to be stable around 80. It was very unusual for my TA to rise so much that week I was away. However, before I left, I dosed a large amount of acid, then brushed the Crud out of it. To the point, the entire water column was cloudy for a few hours. I wonder if my heavy SS brushing created enough calcium to bump up my CH and bring my TA out of the zone.
Anyway, I still can't seem to understand my pH rise, but the CH increase is making more sense. I've not brushed since I got back and the CH has remained stable.
Ok, the stainless brush is too aggressive for daily use.
It should only be used for limited purposes.
Try to keep the CSI at about 0.0 and brush only with a nylon brush about once a week.
It should only be used for limited purposes.
Try to keep the CSI at about 0.0 and brush only with a nylon brush about once a week.
Day 5 - pH no change (7.8), TA +10 (80), CH no change (480)
no acid addition. Want to see if it will hold another day and see if TA is stable.
no acid addition. Want to see if it will hold another day and see if TA is stable.
keep in mind the test accuracy is plus/minus 1 drop
so ta may fluctuate plus/minus 10
same with ch
so ta may fluctuate plus/minus 10
same with ch
reggiehammond
Gold Supporter
- Oct 4, 2020
- 2,253
- Pool Size
- 30000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
How confident are you that your pool volume is correct? If your gallons are off, then your recent additions would not match expectation. Consider validating your additions 20-30 mins after addition, as part of your testing, to confirm you have size correct in pool math.
Eh. Maybe 80% sure I’m within 1000 of that. Seller told me 22,000. Upon a recent full drain and fill it took 3 6,000 gal truck loads. When I set PM to 20,000 it overshoots all targets if I follow the suggested dosing.
and I typically do test 1 hour after an acid dose to see if it hit target, especially when it goes +8.0 since anything above is a guess.
Day 6 - pH +.2 (8.0), TA no change ( 80), CH -10(470)
Added 33oz of acid to target 7.8. Will test in an hour to verify dose impact.
Added 33oz of acid to target 7.8. Will test in an hour to verify dose impact.
Can you show pictures of the pH test so that we can see if we read the pH the same as you are reading it?
I think that if the CSI is not over 0.1, I would probably not add acid even if the pH is 8.0.
I think that if the CSI is not over 0.1, I would probably not add acid even if the pH is 8.0.
I didn’t see this til after my post dose log. I’ll share a picture of tomorrows log.
the only reason I dose at 8 is because once it gets over 8 I don’t have anyway of knowing where it’s at and whether my CSI is still balanced. I can certainly try no dosing though
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,353
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You are putting way too much emphasis on keeping your CSI “balanced” day to day.
I don’t even know what a balanced CSI is. CSI anywhere in the range if +0.6 to -0.6 is ok and within +0.3 to -0.3 is a bit better. That is not a balance, just return the CSI to within the range whenever your tests show it is outside the range.
Short term transients of CSI outside the range even for weeks will do no damage. It is when the CSI is left outside the range for months that bad things can happen. Keep your average CSI to be within range and you will be fine.
As AJ said it.. That's exactly how I play the CSI game. You can't keep chasing it because it'll always win out.
To clarify... and perhaps I used the wrong terminology... I'm not directly chasing a "balanced" CSI. I'm chasing a rapidly increasing pH. I can't just let my pH go above 8, for several reasons:
- I can't measure effectively above 8
- Therefore I cannot rely on my pH test
- Therefore I cannot rely on PMath dosage amounts
- Therefore I cannot rely on CSI measurement
- I don't want scale accompanying the higher pH
At this point there is a trend of a +0.2 pH daily. So I either have to dose hard and bring down to 7.2-7.4 then wait 4 days and do it again, Or I have to add 30oz of MA daily to maintain 7.8 target. Neither is ideal IMHO especially seeing others who indicate their pH rise from SWCG is an order of magnitude less than what I'm experiencing.
The rising TA points to something odd going on.
I would try to maintain the CSI as close to zero as possible and the pH as close to 7.9 to 8.0 as possible.
Brush weekly with a nylon brush.
Maybe consider getting a pH meter to help reliably judge the pH.
If you can post pictures of the pH test, we can help read the actual number.
I find that many people read the pH as higher than it really is.
I would try to maintain the CSI as close to zero as possible and the pH as close to 7.9 to 8.0 as possible.
Brush weekly with a nylon brush.
Maybe consider getting a pH meter to help reliably judge the pH.
If you can post pictures of the pH test, we can help read the actual number.
I find that many people read the pH as higher than it really is.
Day 7 - +0.2 pH (8.0), no change in TA or CH.
You say rising TA, but I’m not experiencing that, right? Since I’ve been back TA has consistently come in 70-80.
I do think that the heavy acid dose and heavy brushing I did before vacation may have spiked the CH and perhaps contributed to the TA. Maybe I just sit on it as is now, don’t dose acid to see when the TA begins to climb again?
should I keep testing CH? It doesn’t seem to budge.
As soon as my nylon brush arrives I’ll be brushing. Closing time soon, but I’d love to solve this mystery before next season. Haha.
Attached a pic of pH test. I see that as 8.0
You say rising TA, but I’m not experiencing that, right? Since I’ve been back TA has consistently come in 70-80.
I do think that the heavy acid dose and heavy brushing I did before vacation may have spiked the CH and perhaps contributed to the TA. Maybe I just sit on it as is now, don’t dose acid to see when the TA begins to climb again?
should I keep testing CH? It doesn’t seem to budge.
As soon as my nylon brush arrives I’ll be brushing. Closing time soon, but I’d love to solve this mystery before next season. Haha.
Attached a pic of pH test. I see that as 8.0
Attachments
I see about 7.9 to 8.0.
I would not add any acid at this point.
Let's see what the reading is tomorrow.
I would not add any acid at this point.
Let's see what the reading is tomorrow.
Ok, I have never seen a pool where the TA and pH rises like this.
Something weird it going on, but I have no idea what it could be.
Something weird it going on, but I have no idea what it could be.
your post monday, ta number was 80 no change, now this post lists ta +10 (80)
i dont feel you ta is rising (except for chemical additions,)
your poolmath logs show ta 70 or 80 for the last week
i still believe it is within the 1 drop = 10, test accuracy
i dont feel you ta is rising (except for chemical additions,)
your poolmath logs show ta 70 or 80 for the last week
i still believe it is within the 1 drop = 10, test accuracy
So I think what we’re trying to observe is the gradual rise of the TA without regular acid doses. At least this theory is supported by the week of the 11th when I was away on vacation and came back to ridiculously high pH, TA, and a rise in CH.
im not adding acid right now to see if I can replicate the rise again. Not sure what that will tell us, but at this point I’m out if ideas.