Vacuum Relief Valve Leaking

[Dabrodas]

Hey guy,

I have solar panels with an automated switch. I notice that when my solar is OFF, I get a leak from the vacuum relief valve. Slow drip.
What is interesting is it changes based on RPMs from the pump. When priming and running high RPM, no leak. Once it is done priming and runs down to 1500-2000RPM, I get the slow drip. Also immediately after the prime, I hear a large flush of water from the solar panels, even though the solar is “off”?

Should I look to replace this vacuum relief valve? Are there any videos out there? Not sure what to do with it or how to take it apart to inspect.

 

[kimkats]

I am not sure of the answer so here is a bump to get more eyes on this.

 

[mas985]

Sometimes VRVs will get a small piece of debris stuck in the valve which keeps it open. Some can be taken apart and cleaned out and it looks like yours might. If not, then you may need to replace it.

 

[kadavis]

This looks like the Helicol vacuum breaker, which can be opened and cleaned. I don't believe there are any parts for this, but a new is HELIOCOL 3/4" Vacuum Relief Valve - Solar Pool Heater Vacuum Breaker | eBay

 

[Dabrodas]

This looks like the Helicol vacuum breaker, which can be opened and cleaned. I don't believe there are any parts for this, but a new is HELIOCOL 3/4" Vacuum Relief Valve - Solar Pool Heater Vacuum Breaker | eBay

Thank you - I am going to try next weekend to take the VRV off. I was able to take the cap off this weekend (hand tight) but couldn't get to the ball/spring. Will need to get vice grips around it, I believe, to get to the threads.

Is it odd that this drips when the solar is "off"? And that I hear a big water rush when the VSP drops from priming (3000 RPM) down to 1500RPM? I know there is a little hole in the solar actuator valve, but seems strange that it would drip and have that much water going up to the solar panels when it is "off". I have it in manual "off" as well to ensure nothing moves without me making it.

 

[mas985]

Is there a check valve on the solar return side? If not, solar may fill with water via the return path.

Does the VRV drip when the pump has been off for a while (i.e. solar has time to drain), then the pump is turned on but solar is not on?

 

[Dabrodas]

Is there a check valve on the solar return side? If not, solar may fill with water via the return path.

Does the VRV drip when the pump has been off for a while (i.e. solar has time to drain), then the pump is turned on but solar is not on?

Only check valve is right after the filter and right before the black solar valve in the image. The VRV drips when the pump is on and when it goes to a lower RPM. For example, it leaks a little when primes, but then stops leaking like 5 minutes into the prime. Then, once the pump slows down to 1500-1700 RPMs, it leaks continually. This is with the Solar turned OFF.

To answer your question - Yes. The pump stops at 5PM and doesn't kick back on until 10AM the next day, which is when the dripping starts.

 

[Dabrodas]

What is also interesting - just went out and checked it. Was running at 1600 RPM and was dripping nonstop. I lowered the RPM to 1400 (without re-priming) and the drip stopped and I heard more water rush down from the solar.

So it is like there is a flow rate in the middle that causes it to drip. Seems like under 1400 and over 2800 it doesn't drip.. but in between it drips constantly.

Trying to think outloud - If the RPM is 2800+, it probably puts enough force on the VRV to close the seal. If the RPM drops below 1400, maybe it isn't enough flow to send the water through that tiny hole in the black valve? Where the in-between speeds let water through but isn't putting enough force on the spring to close the VRV, so it is just continually dripping? No idea.. just grasping at straws here.

 

[mas985]

Your assessment is probably correct.

Also, with the check valve on the return side, solar is probably filling even when the solar valve is off. This isn't a huge problem, unless you have a leaky VRV, but it can cause some issues when there is a lot of sun on the panels and solar is off, the water can heat up to very high levels softening the PVC and panel material which can in turn cause deformations. If solar is always on when the sun is on the panels, then this would not be an issue. To fix this, you need a check valve on the return side above the TEE.

 

[Dabrodas]

Your assessment is probably correct.

Also, with the check valve on the return side, solar is probably filling even when the solar valve is off. This isn't a huge problem, unless you have a leaky VRV, but it can cause some issues when there is a lot of sun on the panels and solar is off, the water can heat up to very high levels softening the PVC and panel material which can in turn cause deformations. If solar is always on when the sun is on the panels, then this would not be an issue. To fix this, you need a check valve on the return side above the TEE.

Very interesting, so water could be going up the return side. What if I turned the two red handles and closed it when not using the solar? I know those are there for solar maintenance.. but wanted to get your opinion. Any equipment or damage risk?

 

[borjis]

I had double valves going to and coming back on my last house w pool and solar heat like you have. My setup was not automated (roof temp sensor was missing & actuator servo was stuck in on position).

What I did was turn off pump, wait 10 minutes for panels to drain, then close the valves and actuator to the panels.

If you do turn them closed, just make sure your
actuator doesn't open . Or that could make a pressure problem.

 

[Dabrodas]

I had double valves going to and coming back on my last house w pool and solar heat like you have. My setup was not automated (roof temp sensor was missing & actuator servo was stuck in on position).

What I did was turn off pump, wait 10 minutes for panels to drain, then close the valves and actuator to the panels.

If you do turn them closed, just make sure your
actuator doesn't open . Or that could make a pressure problem.

Thanks - Yes, that would be my main concern.. faulty electronics and for whatever reason if that actuator turned "by itself".

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

Trying to think outloud - If the RPM is 2800+, it probably puts enough force on the VRV to close the seal. If the RPM drops below 1400, maybe it isn't enough flow to send the water through that tiny hole in the black valve? Where the in-between speeds let water through but isn't putting enough force on the spring to close the VRV, so it is just continually dripping? No idea.. just grasping at straws here.

This sounds exactly right. I have a different style of VRV than you, so don't know about the tiny hole. My 2 VRVs will drip if solar is engaged and my pump is below 2500 RPM. This is normal. You just have to run the pump at a high enough speed to close your VRV. That speed will depend on your setup.

What doesn't seem normal to me is the location of your VRV. I am not a solar expert, all I know is my own setup. My setup and VRVs are different from yours, but my 2 VRVs are way up high, at the panels. That way, air can get in but almost no water comes out. Your VRV seems way too low and guaranteed to drip because water will flow down and out when the valve is open and letting in air. I only get drips when my VRVs are briefly in an "in between" state between open and closed. Given the low position of your valve, I think you may have to consider some drippage normal. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Dabrodas]

This sounds exactly right. I have a different style of VRV than you, so don't know about the tiny hole. My 2 VRVs will drip if solar is engaged and my pump is below 2500 RPM. This is normal. You just have to run the pump at a high enough speed to close your VRV. That speed will depend on your setup.

What doesn't seem normal to me is the location of your VRV. I am not a solar expert, all I know is my own setup. My setup and VRVs are different from yours, but my 2 VRVs are way up high, at the panels. That way, air can get in but almost no water comes out. Your VRV seems way too low and guaranteed to drip because water will flow down and out when the valve is open and letting in air. I only get drips when my VRVs are briefly in an "in between" state between open and closed. Given the low position of your valve, I think you may have to consider some drippage normal. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks. The tiny hole I was referring to is in the actuator. I swear I read that some where, that there is a small hole on the "closed" side of the actuator. So even in the solar "off" position, it still lets a tiny bit of water through.

That being said.. I just went out and did a quick test with turning the red-handled valves. I jacked my RPM up to 3000, for 1 minute, then back to 1400 and had the drip and gushing water sound. I did the same test, with the return red-handled valve CLOSED... no water gushing and the drip seemed to wean. So given all that sounds like Mark's response above is spot in.. that my water at high pressure is going up the return side of the solar, finding its way down to the VRV. Baffling. So I can kind of understand if at high pressure, the water would go up the return, go back to VRV (basically moving in the wrong direction) and enough pressure on the system would eventually close that VRV. I don't like the sounds of that at all and understand why a check valve makes sense on the return side, right above the TEE.

 

[mas985]

The solar valve and actuator are two different things. The actuator is simply a motor that turns the valve. The solar valve, underneath the actuator, is what has the tiny hole for draining.

A low height VRV is necessary if you plan on operating solar at lower speed. The lower the VRV, the lower the RPM needed to keep the VRV closed. Raise the VRV and you will need to increase RPM.

Also, if you set the actuator switch to the middle position, this will disable the actuator so you don't need to worry about it turning on when you have the red solar valves off.

 

[JamesW]

I think that this would work for you.

It comes in 1/2" thread or 3/4" thread, whichever you need.

EASTMAN 1/2 in. MIP Vacuum Relief Valve 60156 - The Home Depot

The Eastman Vacuum Relief Valve permits air to enter and prevent vacuum conditions that could siphon the water from the system, resulting in collapse of a tank or water heater or equipment burn out. The

www.homedepot.com

EASTMAN 3/4 in. MIP Vacuum Relief Valve 60158 - The Home Depot

The Eastman vacuum relief valve is built with high-impact brass, providing strength and durability. It has a 3/4-inch male iron pipe connection and features a protective cap. This vacuum valve is used

www.homedepot.com

 

[Dabrodas]

The solar valve and actuator are two different things. The actuator is simply a motor that turns the valve. The solar valve, underneath the actuator, is what has the tiny hole for draining.

A low height VRV is necessary if you plan on operating solar at lower speed. The lower the VRV, the lower the RPM needed to keep the VRV closed. Raise the VRV and you will need to increase RPM.

Also, if you set the actuator switch to the middle position, this will disable the actuator so you don't need to worry about it turning on when you have the red solar valves off.

Mark, thank you! My knowledge in the terminology is weak / poor, so thank you for the clarification.

Can you clarify with "set the actuator switch in middle position" with an image? I currently use the aquastar 2 and put this switch to "manual off". My worry is if there is a malfunction in electronics that still causes the actuator to move the valve. Are you saying there is another back up method to ensure the actuator does not move?

 

[mas985]

The switch is on the back of this:

 

[Dabrodas]

The switch is on the back of this:

View attachment 347972

Got it, thank you! Had no idea there was a switch on the thing.. mine is all corroded but it still worked. Thanks again! I will try this evening to turn it all off and turn both the red-handled valves to ensure proper functionality. Thanks for all the help

 

[Dabrodas]

Just an update - Went and tried a few things:

- Red valves OPEN, Solar CLOSED, RPM at 1400 ran without a drip on VRV
- Red valves OPEN, Solar CLOSED, RPM bump and re-prime, it had a steady flow of water out of VRV during re-prime.
- Red valves OPEN, Solar Open, Re-prime had minimal drip, definitely no steady flow of water out of the VRV.
- Red valves CLOSED, Solar CLOSED, Re-prime had no drip. As expected, no water was being sent to roof.

So now that I am getting a pretty steady stream of water out of the VRV with the solar closed during pump prime, I am going to try and remove the VRV and clean it. If that doesn't work, will try replacing it. If that still doesn't suffice, a check-valve install is likely necessary on the return line.

Will keep yall posted! If any one cares