What I thought were old iron stains on my cartridge filters, is iron my water!

[mgtfp]

So I think the slowing rising pH from my SWG and the bubbles from the spa pushed it over the edge and brought more Iron out of soln.. but there was enough residual MM to cause a reaction...

Our spa always had ugly stains, came complimentary with house and pool. My theory always was the same as yours, that the bubbles in the spa brought pH in the spa much higher than in the pool, resulting in stains only in the spa. Last week I finally tested a spot with a vitamin C tablet, and it removed the staining. On the weekend, I did an AA treatment of the spa only, stains came out nicely. Since I only treated the spa, I just dumped the water afterwards. Ordered an iron test kit to see if that really was just an old stain, or if there still is iron in the water.

 

[mguzzy]

Day 28
I feel like that scene at the end of Papillon... I look in my pool and its floating on a bag of coconuts, yes my pool is floating in my pool. It looks up at me and says:

The pool continues to clear, albeit slowly. There was more dust dropped out than in the past few days,.. but then again I haven't checked it in a few days. The chems are happy, FC 5, SWG 50%, pH 7.5 and the filter pressure is creeping up albeit slowly. So I figure the crystallization process is just moving along at its own pace, albeit slowly. I've moved on to the other opening tasks.. like bringing my CYA up for the summer season, doing my taxes, yadda yadda yadda.

And so I hereby bring this project to a close. I hope you enjoyed my adventure as much as I... My hawks are squawking at me.. the butterflies are flutter-bying, and the scampering squirrels.... Squirrels?!...

 

[kimkats]

What a fun educational read this was!!! THANKS!

 

[mgtfp]

and the scampering squirrels.... Squirrels?!

Now you should be really worried about your pool. Next time you'll look at it, the squirrels will be floating on coconuts in your pool, who itself is floating on coconuts in itself. Really dangerous situation. Can only be resolved by calling the most intelligent lifeform in the universe for help: Mice!

 

[mguzzy]

Epilogue: Day whatever today is...
The pool is clear.. It just took its own dang sweet time. I'd say its as TFP clear as I ever get my puddle. To my eye the plaster "looks" brighter. There are still a few stains in the deep end but hey.. its 30-ish yrs old!

I swapped out my filters for my newer "summer" ones and cleaned out the older "winter" filters. They had the same white precipitate that I had from the last cleaning.. no doubt more former crystalline entities. And my filter pressure dropped 5 PSI.. ok!

All the other levels are nice and stable.. AND my pH has been pretty much right at 7.8.. I've hardly had to adjust it at all... I attribute that to raising the pH with 40 Mule Team back on day whatever. Now I have that Borate Buffer that I've heard tell of, nice side effect. I'm ready to cruise into summer...and not a minute too soon, I have two graduation parties to plan in June.

And my hawk? He watches

 

[mguzzy]

Epi-epi-epilogue...

F'n iron is back.. Or should I say... it never left. I raised my FC to accommodate a 20 degree temp swing last weekend. It was going to be 105 on Mem day, and the pool turned green. At first I thought I missed calculated my FC due to the sudden hot weather and thought it was a bloom.. so I added MORE FC to SLAM levels. it just turned MORE green.. W-T-F?!... Then I noticed the plastic parts were starting to stain up again and so I pulled my filters out yesterday and they are BROWN with iron stains. Oh well. .. I have a pool party this weekend and I am drifting back down to more normal FC.. and readjusted the pH.. the green is gone, the stains are still there and the mini SLAM didn't hurt anything, other than using up a bunch of reagents.

Looks like I'm gonna to have to rethink this thing. I guess there will be a sequel next fall.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Do you have reverse osmosis available in your area? Is the iron from your fill water?

 

[mguzzy]

It must be.. I know I had staining from Clorox salt.. so either I used a lot more Clorox salt than I thought or there is more iron in my fill water than I thought. I can't think of another source. Redwood trees don't dump iron into a pool last I read.

Ironically I just received my water company's water report in the mail.. they list everything except iron. I guess that is not considered a contaminant, but it appears Arsenic & Old Lace is an issue. I need to talk to my neighbors and see if they are seeing staining in their PVC pipes and such.

 

[markayash]

It must be.. I know I had staining from Clorox salt.. so either I used a lot more Clorox salt than I thought or there is more iron in my fill water than I thought. I can't think of another source. Redwood trees don't dump iron into a pool last I read.

Ironically I just received my water company's water report in the mail.. they list everything except iron. I guess that is not considered a contaminant, but it appears Arsenic & Old Lace is an issue. I need to talk to my neighbors and see if they are seeing staining in their PVC pipes and such.

If it’s from the salt drain and refill an option in California?
I saw some iron test strips online for drinking water. No clue if they work.

 

[mguzzy]

If it’s from the salt drain and refill an option in California?
I saw some iron test strips online for drinking water. No clue if they work.

Not this summer.. the Gov already declared it to be a drought season.. the mandatory stuff hasn't kicked in yet. So I don't think a drain and refill will be looked highly upon. I can do the pH and FC dance to keep the water looking nice... so I'm not worried about that. I have the power of TFP science on my side. I'll just have to wait until fall/winter when its more rainy. And maybe I will find a better way to deal with it.

The lesson is that for 6 pages of yammering on about crystalline entities that the MM did not get as much of it as I thought it would.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Iron is not considered a contaminant by EPA because the municipal water suppliers don’t want to have to deal with it. So EPA classifies it as a colorant agent that has “aesthetic” and taste impact only … so no MCL specified. It’s basically a sop to water suppliers so they don’t have to invest money in the control equipment, otherwise your already ridiculously expensive water bill would get even more ridiculously expensive.

If you can find a reverse osmosis pool filter company, you can pay to have your pool water filtered (maybe at the end of the season). RO will reduce iron levels if it is done correctly. It will take everything out though so you will have to rebalance. Often times simply draining and refilling is cheaper if you are allowed to do so.

 

[mguzzy]

Often times simply draining and refilling is cheaper if you are allowed to do so.

Exactly.. so my first thought is to do a half drain and refill during the rainy season for the next few years. In all honesty I have lived with this for a while before I knew I was living with it. With, ya'lls help I now know how to drive the iron back underwater chemically so I am in no rush. And besides rain is free! Maybe by then @setsailsoon will have his ionic resin bed finished.

 

[Newdude]

Maybe you need to channel the *real* Iron Man, none of that wussy Tony Stark nonsense, and make a sacrifice.

 

[markayash]

Iron is not considered a contaminant by EPA because the municipal water suppliers don’t want to have to deal with it. So EPA classifies it as a colorant agent that has “aesthetic” and taste impact only … so no MCL specified. It’s basically a sop to water suppliers so they don’t have to invest money in the control equipment, otherwise your already ridiculously expensive water bill would get even more ridiculously expensive.

If you can find a reverse osmosis pool filter company, you can pay to have your pool water filtered (maybe at the end of the season). RO will reduce iron levels if it is done correctly. It will take everything out though so you will have to rebalance. Often times simply draining and refilling is cheaper if you are allowed to do so.

Coloring agent “ Hey Florida dies oranges orange let’s make our water green”

 

[kellyfair]

Coloring agent “ Hey Florida dies oranges orange let’s make our water green”

Hey, hey now!

 

[mguzzy]

Ordered an iron test kit to see if that really was just an old stain, or if there still is iron in the water

How did that test go? You never said which iron test you ordered.

 

[mguzzy]

Maybe you need to channel the *real* Iron Man, none of that wussy Tony Stark nonsense, and make a sacrifice.

I think I will pass on french kissing a parrot. Alice Cooper had snakes with his cereal in the morning.

 

[Newdude]

think I will pass on french kissing a parrot

I couldn’t find anything from the real incident with more than 2 pixels. Plus, I’d have to wait for 1 hour photo to develop it.

 

[mgtfp]

How did that test go? You never said which iron test you ordered.

I ordered an aquarium test kit from sera. Took ages for the stuff to arrive. Ordered from an Australian online shop, but for some reason it got sent from Europe (I think sera is German) - doesn't really make shipping faster during a pandemic.

Added a few drops of thiosulfate before testing my pool water, in case the test doesn't like chlorine (something that aquarium owners tend not add to their tanks...). Couldn't see any trace of iron. I assume that the stains really were a relict from the old pool owner. As I only treated the spa, I just dumped that water after the AA treatment. Lets see how things develop, so far no new stains.

 

[MarieB]

Epi-epi-epilogue...

F'n iron is back.. Or should I say... it never left. I raised my FC to accommodate a 20 degree temp swing last weekend. It was going to be 105 on Mem day, and the pool turned green. At first I thought I missed calculated my FC due to the sudden hot weather and thought it was a bloom.. so I added MORE FC to SLAM levels. it just turned MORE green.. W-T-F?!... Then I noticed the plastic parts were starting to stain up again and so I pulled my filters out yesterday and they are BROWN with iron stains. Oh well. .. I have a pool party this weekend and I am drifting back down to more normal FC.. and readjusted the pH.. the green is gone, the stains are still there and the mini SLAM didn't hurt anything, other than using up a bunch of reagents.

Looks like I'm gonna to have to rethink this thing. I guess there will be a sequel next fall.

Hello @mguzzy! I’ve been following your thread along during my own iron stain and AA experience. I examined my black sequestered flakes and removed them by battery operated vacuum. I opened the filter bag and saw that it looked like the (1) usual black silty dirt I always get on my patio. I also continued to get (2) white flakes coming out of my returns. Note on (1): I think that the black silty dirt contains the iron particles and that the black silty dirt is blown over from the busy street I live next to on my corner lot. I learned that road grit contains many metals including iron. I will always have this source of iron . Note on (2): I think the white flakes are being created in my swg from the calcium in my water. I also vacuum them out. I hope that if I am diligent in removing the white flakes that my high calcium will decrease by some degree.
Also, I found that the Robelle metal out product worked great as a sequester and lasted about 3 -4 weeks. At that same 3-4 week mark I fired up the spa. Next day my spa water was a little greenish. Ran the pump and it cleared up. Next day my pool water was slightly tinted green. Ran the pump and it cleared up. Later that week when my pool guy came I looked at the CuLator bag in the pump basket and it had a yellowish tinge. So I think that the CuLator absorbed the iron that came out of sequester.
My plaster is pure white still and water is perfectly clear and TFP perfect. I still get the white flakes made in the SWG. My process seemed similar to yours in certain ways. My CSI on the TFP pool app has been in optimal range, so maybe that is why the calcium doesn’t stick on but just flakes out.
I wonder if you live next to a busy street too, because you have so much iron again.