Reviving out of service pool: FG & deck Refresh

[mas985]

Thought I'd read that there should be one before the SWG. Had questioned the value of check valve above it myself. Probably misinterpreted something when I figured out that I was going to need a Solar 3-way (solar on/off) AND a Solar flow control (low pump speed/high pump speed if in-pool spa-type jets mode).

As stated above, you don't need one before the SWG and you don't need one on the solar supply (or second return) side if you remove the bypass. The bypass isn't really needed if you use the solar valve as a bypass as well. If actuated, you can adjust the cams to any position you need.

 

[dianedebuda]

Understand now that the check valve before the SWG is not needed.

Maybe I'm making the solar too complex, but I see it as being on/off AND if on, could be run at 2 possible pump speeds depending if the in-pool seat spa-type jets are running. So I'm not seeing where I can eliminate the bypass. Is there a better way?

 

[mas985]

Why do a separate bypass? The solar valve can act as a bypass too. That is how mine is setup. You just partially turn it on. Valves dont have to be on or off, they can be part way.

 

[dianedebuda]

But I would need a 3-position valve:
--off
--on @ pump speed 1 (low=normal)
--on @ pump speed 2 (high=needed for in-pool seat jets)
Two on positions so that panels don't get more flow than they're designed for.

If the Intellivalves were controllable, that'd work, but AFAIK, they're not as of this date.

 

[mas985]

So were you going to have the bypass actuated?

What kind of flow rate do the jets require?

 

[dianedebuda]

Yes, to the actuator. I tried to indicate that in the diagram by denoting Auto valves.

Don't know jet rate. When pool was installed 40 years ago, we would bypass the filter apparently to increase available pressure/flow to the jets. Will there be a large change between high and low pump speeds? Probably not, but I'd rather plumb for worst case.

 

[mas985]

How high are the panels installed? Also, how big are the panels? Minimum, they need 0.1 gpm/sqft. The height will also effect minimum pressure.

 

[dianedebuda]

Panels are not yet installed. Bought them a number of years ago before health issues interrupted "life". They're the cheapy Fafco Sungrabber 2x20 horizontals. IIRC, bought 10. Built a shed specifically for them. See shingled roof on right of pool:
shed roof for solar right of pool
Rocked structure behind bucket is pump pad.

Not holding my breath that they will still be good, but not much to lose by trying them now.

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Just to refresh, the original question was: is it ok to move the flow meter (FloVis) from the solar input to the solar output line (replacing the check valve)? And is there any reason to use another FloVis anywhere else?

 

[dianedebuda]

Updated diagram.
--Removed Check Valve before SWG
--Moved Flow Meter
--Moved Check Valve to after Solar Flow to prevent backflow when Solar Off

 

[dianedebuda]

No comments on diagram change or potential use of FloVis anywhere else?

Started scooping on the other side of the deep end today. Feels like there's leaves & muck starting a couple of feet from the edge only so far.

Now thinking it's time to get serious about getting equipment & supplies for the SLAM. For the equipment, first thing I'm going to have to do is drain about 12"-18" from the pool to be able to work on the pipes in the pad. Still thinking about getting the 1 hp AG house brand pump from Inyopools with an additional leaf catcher instead of a trash pump. I expect it's going to take a week or two for me to completely redo the pad area. With the AG pump, maybe I could add a little LC per day just to keep the algae from getting worse with the rising water temp until I can start the SLAM? Possibly could even start the SLAM a few days before the pad is ready by just recirculating the water w/o a filter - kind of like what was done in the recent FL Pool Neglected for 3 Years thread (because that filter was tiny). Perhaps be able to vac a little to waste? Does that sound reasonable?

Looks like a HD 15-20 mi away has quite a bit of LC. Will try to go look in the next few days to see where it's stored and it's age. And local Walmarts show LC in stock too at a slightly higher price. Don't want to start without at least 40 gal of LC onsite.

 

[mas985]

Most AG pumps are not self-priming. So if you want to use an AG pump, get one that is self-priming.

As for the schematic, you are showing a drain for the panels. The panels should be self-draining if you install a vacuum release valve. What is that for?

 

[dianedebuda]

Winterization.

 

[mas985]

Winterization.

You shouldn't need that if the panels are self draining which they should be.

 

[dianedebuda]

Not the panels themselves, but some of lines between the pad and the panels may be vulnerable. Will have to study this some more & maybe I won't need the drain. Thanks.

 

[mas985]

Low points usually only occur if the supply or return lines have to travel uphill over a roof peak and then back down again. But if the pipes travel downhill continuously from the panel connections, it shouldn't be an issue. Usually, there is always a way to route the pipes for self-draining although there are cases where it just isn't possible.

 

[dianedebuda]

Pipes for solar that are already installed start at pad and currently end about waist high at building where panels are to be mounted on roof. Checked them over & can't see any reason to have the drain now. Guess drain was just a remnant of decade-old solar plan that didn't have a special solar 3-way with drain.

Most AG pumps are not self-priming. So if you want to use an AG pump, get one that is self-priming.

A good reason right there to get a submersible pump for lowering the water level this time. See a little 1/2 hp on Amazon for about $50 that'd probably work. As for the imagined benefits of the AG pump before new equipment is ready, may still be worthwhile since I can easily place the pump below pool's water level next to the pad. That'd work? I've seen posts/videos saying priming not a problem if pump is only a foot or so above pool's water level. Dunno. I just may be trying to talk myself into a portable pump ... because it seems so cool and gives me the illusion of a jump start on the SLAM before the pad is complete.

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Air jets in pool: need Hartford Loop? There was a loop at the pad in the original plumbing with (assumed) check valve on horizontal leg, but blower may have been below pool's water line. Current blower instructions seem to just want blower positioned above water line with a check valve. Guessing distance from pad to jets is 40 ft; 2" pipe.

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Fun fact: I've estimated that I've removed about 195 cu ft of leaves & muck so far. That's like a cube 5'9" on a side. Or a 4" drop in the water level of my pool. Think I've already beat swampwoman's 15 wheelbarrows. Yeah, I read a LOT of swamp to pool recovery stories to maintain inspiration.

 

[mguzzy]

Fun fact: I've estimated that I've removed about 195 cu ft of leaves & muck so far. That's like a cube 5'9" on a side. Or a 4" drop in the water level of my pool. Think I've already beat swampwoman's 15 wheelbarrows. Yeah, I read a LOT of swamp to pool recovery stories to maintain inspiration.

That is amazing! Thats a loooooot of crud.

I can see getting a cheapy pump for your rehab. When I relocated my pool equipment pad, I ordered all the equipment before I demoed the old pad. That way I could plumb the new pump into the old lines to keep things going knowing I would be moving it to its new and final resting place when the new pad was ready to go. Sounds like your are proposing the same thing. kinda like a highway works project.. you gotta build a temporary road so you can work on the main road and keep the traffic going.

 

[dianedebuda]

Hartford loop question still on the table.

All of the pipes in/out of pad have ball valves that I'm hoping to replace with 2-way Jandys. Would it be a good idea to use a shop vac (blow) or lawn blower while the pipes are exposed?

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Read another vintage swamp story where swampwoman claims to have removed 20 wheelbarrows of stuff. Hmmm, are debris removal quantities like fish stories? To be fair, she could have been referring to another swamp/pool.

 

[mas985]

For what reason? To clear debris? The installer should have had all pipes capped so that nothing can get in them and they should be capped before pressure testing so it may not be possible to blow them out if that was what you were thinking. If they have not be capped, then yes you could try blowing them out in case something got in there.

 

[dianedebuda]

No installer involved here. Pipes have not been capped & the plumbing is still as it was when it last worked years ago. Just thought that if the pipes needed to be checked for blockage, particularly the main since it's been buried under literally feet of leaves and muck, this is the time.