North Carolina

[gvalas]

Hello! In January, we had a landscape designer prepare a plan comprised of our wish list for our new home (flat yard and septic lines in back). We're expecting to be here for the long-term, and it's a 10-15 year plan to be done in phases. I've attached it for reference. It's eye candy, and I swoon every time I look at it. The spec design pic is the area, we'd like to get done before summer hits next year. The landscape designer has determined that we can fit an 36' x 18' pool with a pool deck of 715 sqft. We would like a fiberglass pool, which would sit behind the detached garage (east side), on a corner lot with no backyard fencing yet.

I signed up on TFP earlier this year as we began vetting PBs and had hoped to begin building now, but we had to push off to early next year, January or February. In any case, we're back to reviewing proposals and getting up-to-date specs so that we can make a decision. I'd love to get your thoughts on some of our ideas and the information we've been receiving.

Here's what we have so far, and I should add, we are absolutely new to the world of pools and building pools. We're trying to learn fast! I've added prices too... admins, please let me know if that's not appropriate and I will quickly remove.

• Fiberglass pool
  • Generally, it seems like we'll be sacrificing both width and length given the fixed sizes. Our understanding is that fiberglass pools have a lip around the perimeter that will be covered by the coping. Does anyone know if the dimensions advertised for a pool are including the lip, or just the water dimensions? We had heard you the lip makes you lose about 6 inches on each side. Is that true?
  • Splash decks - We definitely want a splash deck. Is the length generally a standard size? None of the PBs could really tell us the length dimensions. Is it 10 ft? We'd like to be able to set at least 2 adirondack-like chairs in that space.
  • From reading a few of the threads on the site, structural warranty seems to be key vs. brand name, for example. That said, given the dimensions and our desires, it seems we might be limited to Barrier Reef or Leisure Pools. Anyone with experience with those pool brands? Any insights worth sharing? Structural issues? Maintenance concerns?
• PB #1 specs for a 35' pool
  • Pool: Barrier Reef Whitsunday 35' Lounger Barrier
    • Lifetime structural warranty
    • Equipment: Is this all good? Should we be asking for upgrades or different brands?
      • Pump: Pentair Variable speed
      • Filter: Pentair Cartridge filter
      • Control: Pentair Easy Touch
      • Cleaner: Aquabot robotic
      • Lighting: (3) Pemtair Globrite Assuming 3 lights are good. Based on some of the forum threads, seems like 2 could be just enough though.
      • Chlorinator: Pentair IC40 Salt generator
      • General: (1) skimmers, (3) returns, set of main drains, stainless ladder and handrail, manual cleaning equip.salt, start up chemicals and water. "Manual cleaning equipment" -- what does that mean? Not the cool robot cleaner? Also, I know ladders/handrails are good from a safety perspective, especially with small children, which I have, and as I age. However, I really like the look of pools without ladders... thoughts? I'm not trying to be reckless, but just wondering what others have done given small children.
      • Installation: Excavation, setting and leveling of pool, pool plumbing, filtration plumbing, materials and placement of stone base and backfill, rough grading,labor, safety fencing, start up of filtration equipment,operations training, and miscellaneous materials. Anything, I should be asking for related to installation?
      • Pool Package Cost:Total for items listed in quote above. High? Low?
        • Total: $42,425.00
          • Discount: ($2,000.00)
        • Total: $40,425.00
    • Pool Patio Estimate:
      • Coping: Stamped colored concrete $2,500
      • Patio: Colored broom finish concrete 1000 sq.ft. $9,150 Should I be negotiating this down given the landscape measurement, or should I be cautious?
      • Electrical Estimate: 60' service run to filtration equipment, bonding, pool lights, equipment hook up. $3,205
        • OPTIONAL (not included in estimate): addition of electrical sub panel for proper power supply (if necessary) $450 We want to add an outlet for an outdoor fridge behind the garage. Do we need one?
        • OPTIONAL (not included in estimate): supply of 60 amps to pool control for electric heat pump (if necessary) $450
      • Heater (not included in estimate)entair electric heat pump (requires $450 in electrical work) $4595
      • Heater (not included in estimate):300K BTU Hayward Natural Gas heater w/ gas hook up $4116
      • Fencing:150 LF 54" Aluminum Fencing with (3) gates $4,200
      • Tile: Choice of any 6"x6" waterline tile $2,500 We heard this is good because of fiberglass fading at the waterline. We also think it might elevate the aesthetic of the pool. Is this worth it?
    • ​Total pool cost = $61,980 ale: Yikes! This is steep. What's my negotiating leverage here?? I still need to do the landcaping work as well as the wood deck behind the porch. Definitely not doing the pool porch behind the garage. That would be a few years out.

I know I put a lot into this initial post, but trying to get it all out there at once. Thank you in advance for your feedback!!

 

[mknauss]

Great plan.

Why are you only considering a fiberglass pool? I have one, and in hindsight, should have gone gunite. What is driving your desire for the fiberglass?

The splash pad will be problematic with a fiberglass pool. Be sure to get a lot of detail on how that is being done.

I am sure others will chime in as you have some great information here.

 

[Griswald]

Price seems a bit high for this area, but not horrible.
I agree on the splash deck, how will it attach to a pool that is not "underground"? Fiberglass pools tend to sit ON the ground.

 

[gvalas]

Hi mknauss. We'd love gunite, but the quotes have come in closer to $100K. That's just well above our desired budget. Fiberglass is certainly expensive, but we thought it was better, and more durable, then the vinyl route. We also like the low maintenance aspect of fiberglass relative to other materials. Why do you regret fiberglass? What issues may we incur with a splash pad? What should I be asking about this specifically? Thank you!

 

[mknauss]

That is interesting. In many areas fiberglass is more cost than gunite.

I was attracted to fiberglass by the same statement you made - 'low maintenance'. But that was pre-TFP. There is really minimal difference in maintenance. The downside with fiberglass we have found is that it cracks (spider cracks, not structural), any repairs are very noticeable, and the gel coat degrades over time. With a gunite you have the chance to refinish in XX years. But with fiberglass, your options are not that great and results even less great when the finish degrades.

A splash pad implies a large, flat, shallow area. Our small pool has a very small one, also called a 'tanning ledge'. No matter how hard we tried, the fill under it has not stayed firmly in place and it has 'give'. A large, flat area is very difficult to fill under the shell. I assume it is integral with the pool. So the designs (you should be able to look at them on line with the manufacturer you are going with) you should look at.

Your statement on size is correct. The shell is measured to the outside of the flange and the top of the flange. So you will lose about 6" on each side and about 6" in depth. The hole must be dug bigger than that by about 12" all around the shell.

 

[gvalas]

I agree on the splash deck, how will it attach to a pool that is not "underground"? Fiberglass pools tend to sit ON the ground.

Thanks,Griswald.

Can you help me understand the concern specifically, please? The splash deck is part of the pool (1 full unit). I imagine it would get backfilled, but I can ask to confirm. Is that still an issue even if it's backfilled?

 

[jimim]

that's a pretty cool design. So is the huge huge other area ur yard? just wondering why the pool didn't go over there? seems like you can do a ton over there? it is a cool design though.

 

[bmoreswim]

Looks like the septic lines run all through the larger area. Even so, I like the pool and deck area consolidated in the corner to preserve yard space. We have really valued being able to use our yard with a pool.

 

[gvalas]

Thanks, mknauss. That's really helpful information! How old is your pool? How many spider cracks do you get per year, and what is the cost for repairing it? I was hoping the technology had improved in recent years.

The give in the tanning ledge is a concern. Is there any solution to during installation that would have prevented it? Or is simply a con to this type of pool in general?

That is interesting. In many areas fiberglass is more cost than gunite.

I was attracted to fiberglass by the same statement you made - 'low maintenance'. But that was pre-TFP. There is really minimal difference in maintenance. The downside with fiberglass we have found is that it cracks (spider cracks, not structural), any repairs are very noticeable, and the gel coat degrades over time. With a gunite you have the chance to refinish in XX years. But with fiberglass, your options are not that great and results even less great when the finish degrades.

A splash pad implies a large, flat, shallow area. Our small pool has a very small one, also called a 'tanning ledge'. No matter how hard we tried, the fill under it has not stayed firmly in place and it has 'give'. A large, flat area is very difficult to fill under the shell. I assume it is integral with the pool. So the designs (you should be able to look at them on line with the manufacturer you are going with) you should look at.

Your statement on size is correct. The shell is measured to the outside of the flange and the top of the flange. So you will lose about 6" on each side and about 6" in depth. The hole must be dug bigger than that by about 12" all around the shell.

 

[gvalas]

Yes, the entire area behind the house is ours (green/tan spaces). We have a septic system; the lines are in the middle and repair fields further back. Also the tan section at the very back of the lot is an easement for a storm drain. The space is usable, but if the county ever needs access to do anything, any work back there would go to waste.

Also, like bmoreswim, we'd much rather preserve the yard space and have the pool off to the side. Ideally, it would have been parallel to the garage, but the lines prevented that. We could have moved septic lines to achieve that look too, but all in all we were happy with the design... and it saves us money.

that's a pretty cool design. So is the huge huge other area ur yard? just wondering why the pool didn't go over there? seems like you can do a ton over there? it is a cool design though.

 

[mknauss]

Our pool is now 4 years old. The spider cracks showed up when very new. And were 'repaired' by the manufacturer. But they tell you up front they cannot match perfectly the color of the gel coat. And some of the spider cracks returned in the areas that were repaired. We are leaving them.

I think a large, flat, shallow area of fiberglass will be difficult to get perfectly supported by the back fill they use. You can talk to the installer, but I will bet, at the end of the day, there will be some give in a large splash pad made of fiberglass.

- - - Updated - - -

I did not catch it if you listed it but a rectangular pool like you show I would put in an auto cover. Especially as I see lots of trees in your design.

 

[sktn77a]

Just a general comment on "negotiating leverage". Pools are such and individual undertaking that no two will be exactly the same (not like a new car where they are all identical). A builder may come down $5000 or so but will almost certainly cut corners somewhere (probably where you cant see). Or they will say they can come down $5000 if you forego X, Y, and Z. Either way, the estimate is usually not very negotiable from an absolute standpoint.

 

[spoonman]

I really like the pool at an angle. Looks great.

 

[Griswald]

Thanks,Griswald.

Can you help me understand the concern specifically, please? The splash deck is part of the pool (1 full unit). I imagine it would get backfilled, but I can ask to confirm. Is that still an issue even if it's backfilled?

If the splash deck is part of the pool, no problems. However, if I remember correctly from when we were getting estimates, fiberglass is limited in size. With the splash deck being part of the pool, are you giving up deep pool area for the splash deck?

 

[geneargyle]

I would agree that since it is a long term plan that you should really consider a gunite pool. It is free form and comparing the actual pool to a fiberglass pool, the gunite should be comparable in price. Not to mention, in my opinion, a gunite pool would actually look nicer and more custom.

 

[gvalas]

Thanks, sktn77a. All good points, and given the investment, I definitely wouldn't want the PB to cut any corners.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh really... that's a bummer the cracks appeared at the outset.

I added my signature finally -- rectangle pool. Hadn't really thought about a pool cover. The trees next to the pool would be arborvitae type trees, so we shouldn't have too much of a leaf issue. But of course, the plants next to it might be a concern.

Our pool is now 4 years old. The spider cracks showed up when very new. And were 'repaired' by the manufacturer. But they tell you up front they cannot match perfectly the color of the gel coat. And some of the spider cracks returned in the areas that were repaired. We are leaving them.

I think a large, flat, shallow area of fiberglass will be difficult to get perfectly supported by the back fill they use. You can talk to the installer, but I will bet, at the end of the day, there will be some give in a large splash pad made of fiberglass.

- - - Updated - - -

I did not catch it if you listed it but a rectangular pool like you show I would put in an auto cover. Especially as I see lots of trees in your design.

Geneargyle, we're going to check a few more PBs for quotes. If it continues to be up there, we'll likely stick with fiberglass. Would love gunite though!

I would agree that since it is a long term plan that you should really consider a gunite pool. It is free form and comparing the actual pool to a fiberglass pool, the gunite should be comparable in price. Not to mention, in my opinion, a gunite pool would actually look nicer and more custom.

 

[kimkats]

I love, love, love the layout! Good job "saving" the yard for a play area. This will also make it MUCH easier to fence in the pool area.

Fencing-have you factored that into your budget? There are some important things like self closing gates and such. Of course that will add to the cost.

Kim

 

[gvalas]

Pics of colored broom finish deck & stamped concrete coping please

Hi! Our PB has included stamped concrete coping and colored broom finish patio/decking for our pool. I’ve been searching pictures throughout the threads and have come across a few. I’d love to see any pics that you all have, if your final product is similar to our proposed specs. Can you include names of deck color and coping stain, if you know it too, please? Also, if you have a broom finish deck and stone coping, pictures of that would be great too. We are considering upgrading the coping to stone.

In general, we are not certain if we’ll do a gray color/stain or a beige/brown color. We are also trying to think through future pool furniture colors and how that will look with the colored deck. Thanks!

 

[gvalas]

Sorry, for the late reply Kimkats, and thanks for the tip. We are still working through details of the gates. We have a 3-year old and need to minimize her access for sure.

So... an update. Thanks for all the perspectives on fiberglass vs gunite. We pursued quotes on gunite and found that it is a bit more expensive. This led to a deeper discussion about all the landscaping that needs to get done. We truly have a blank slate since our house is new. And, we are a corner lot which makes our yard a fishbowl once we get the pool in. Privacy will be important here in a bit. All this to say that we took a step back and are going to pursue a vinyl pool, and although we were initially anti-vinyl, we are now embracing this decision wholeheartedly. It will give us more room in the budget to do more of the landscaping work for the backyard, which makes us really happy. More importantly, we’ve made a design change to the pool. We are changing from rectangle to L-shaped to ensure a full swim lane while allowing for a roomy sun deck/splash pad off to the side. The landscape designer is implementing the change. I’ll upload the new rendition once we receive it.

We are finally on our way, but it moved back our pool build start date since we looked around for more quotes. The plan is now late March dig with an estimate completion by end of May/early June. Fingers crossed the stars align and we’re swimming in June!

As soon as things get moving, I’ll post more. In the meantime, we need to think through
our stamped concrete coping color and colored broom finish patio/deck. I posted a question about this on the pool paradise forum, if you have any pics and colors to share.

 

[kimkats]

I think a L shaped pool is the purrfect pool. It does take some room so not many people can do it. It is the best of all worlds-play, swimming, diving, etc. I bet you are going to love it!!

Coping and deck colors. I love a contrast in the two. It helps the coping and shape of the pool really stand out. Me? I like the dark coping with a lighter deck. BUT don't go too dark as people will want to sit there and you don't want to burn their bums LOL

Kim