thinking of emptying pool

[Dirk]

there was still cya in the sock last night that i dumped i the pool. just a couple Tbsps.

Pardon, I know it's important to stay focused on the immediate task, but this is also important. DO NOT dump CYA (solid or liquid or half'n'half, whatever) into a pool like that. Even that small amount. CYA sinks. It's acid, and it will burn your finish. Would you like to see a picture of what that looks like? My burn is still available for photo-op's and autographs, six months after it's debut!

Better to throw that last little bit into the trash.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Those test results look good!

Watch your FC closely as you get the SWG dialed in. Keep working to lower that TA number to 60-70.

I wouldn't take the top off the testkit box - if you do, important items will get misplaced. The "ps water tester" is just a bottle w/screw on cap to put the sample water in. It doesn't fit in the testkit box.

As for the chlorine tester vial. Clean it out really good. Then put a mixture of water and acid in it (about the same ratio of water/acid you use to clean your salt cell). Let it soak for a while, rinse.

thx. got it.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I think that you're getting this under control. The system cycles on and off depending on the percentage setting. It's a 180 minute cycle. So, if the percentage is 20%, it will produce for 36 minutes, then be off for 144 minutes. Then, the polarity will reverse and the cycle will begin again.

To see volts, amps and instant salinity, you have to catch it while it's producing.

When the pool gets used, it's usual to see CCs even if no one pees. Sweat, suntan lotion etc all contribute to organic loading and can cause temporary CCs.

Also, most kids probably pee in pools, at least sometimes. If all the kids have had a quart of soda and no one has gotten out to take a bathroom break in 3 hours, someone is peeing in the pool.

If you get minor CC levels, just bump up the FC to about 15% percent of the CYA for a day or two and they should disappear.

so r u saying that what i saw on the one screen is what the salt cell was actively doing, in this case resting? If it was producing chlorine it would've had the # of chlorine that it was producing, or showing the amt of salt that it had to work with only when working? If I saw it in it's rest period that's why it said "percentage met" but "chlorinator off?" that's why is showed 0000 ppms? Well that answers a lot!

As for CCs, that's great to know. They seemed to bump up so high. two of the kiddos were teenage boys. who knows what they thought was funny to dump in the pool or something? thx

 

[JamesW]

Correct, it was resting. You can force it on by turning on Superchlorinate or just wait to catch it in an on cycle.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Pardon, I know it's important to stay focused on the immediate task, but this is also important. DO NOT dump CYA (solid or liquid or half'n'half, whatever) into a pool like that. Even that small amount. CYA sinks. It's acid, and it will burn your finish. Would you like to see a picture of what that looks like? My burn is still available for photo-op's and autographs, six months after it's debut!

Better to throw that last little bit into the trash.

oh no! sure, i'd like to see a pic! not off topic since that's what i did and there's little chance i would've learned that later. now i know why we put it in the skimmer. i guess that's why it's called cyraneric (sp) ACID! oops! i went out and brushed as soon as i read your post. pool's running full blast and thx to someone here to recommended a hydraulics guy and we got the pool running where water's actually flowing well, or at least in comparison to before, I couldn't see any on the bottom due to water flow but hopefully it made it to the filter!

- - - Updated - - -

Correct, it was resting. You can force it on by turning on Superchlorinate or just wait to catch it in an on cycle.

ok, that makes sense. thx!

 

[Dirk]

oh no! sure, i'd like to see a pic! not off topic since that's what i did and there's little chance i would've learned that later. now i know why we put it in the skimmer. i guess that's why it's called cyraneric (sp) ACID! oops! i went out and brushed as soon as i read your post. pool's running full blast and thx to someone here to recommended a hydraulics guy and we got the pool running where water's actually flowing well, or at least in comparison to before, I couldn't see any on the bottom due to water flow but hopefully it made it to the filter!

My stain was obvious, and happened almost instantly. If you're not seeing any stain, you're good! (And lucky.) Don't go looking for it! Just remember next time. I had the same few tablespoons of CYA chunks in the bottom of my sock, too. I just threw them away...

 

[outdoorsgal]

My stain was obvious, and happened almost instantly. If you're not seeing any stain, you're good! (And lucky.) Don't go looking for it! Just remember next time. I had the same few tablespoons of CYA chunks in the bottom of my sock, too. I just threw them away...

thanks. that really stinks for u. u sometimes learn the hard way like I do I suppose!

 

[outdoorsgal]

I've been really busy but still adding acid at least once a day and check the minimum FC, pH (sometimes CC) at least once a day however I have noticed a couple of times that the CC might've seemed higher than I'd think and I wondered if I did wait too long to check CC after FC so I doubted the test although I didn't have time to run out and retake and figured I'd retake later in day. In the end, here's what I've gotten:

-5-9:
FC 8.5
CC-forgot
lowered salt cell from 20% to 15%

5-10:
FC 6
pH 7.5
CC 1-I may have let it sit too long. I usually write down FC before measuring CC but I think I might've been a second or 2 too long and figured I'd measure it later but didn't
lowered salt cell to 10% from 15%

5-11:
FC 6
CC .5
pH 7.5
salt-from 5-8 -3400 (or maybe 3200-it barely turned a solid change at 3200 but solid definite change at 3400)-panel says 2900
TA from 5-8 -90
CH from 5-8- 300
CYA-i really need to remeasure but let's go with 60 for now. I'll remeasure soon.

According to pool school FC should be more around 3-4 but I wanted to wait another day before lowering the salt cell to 5%.

Thanks!

 

[outdoorsgal]

5-12
FC 5
CC 0
pH 5

-Turned cell back to 15% from 10%
-Kids swam in afternoon
-found a mouse in the bottom of the pool in the morn

5-13:
FC 3
CC .5
pH 7.5
TA 80
CH from 5-8=300
salt from 5-8=3400
CYA 60
80 degrees

Turned cell to 20%

Adding acid once a day past few days, still to get pH to 7.2 to lower TA to 60

 

[kellyfair]

Mouse????

 

[proavia]

Good job on working that TA lower by lowering the pH. Pretty soon you'll be at TA 60.

As for the SWG - personally, I wouldn't keep adjusting the percentage every day. Set it to 25% for now and test DAILY. If it's not maintaining the minimum on the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA], adjust it up a little. Your swimmer load, bather "waste", water temp, sun exposure and blown in organics/debris are going to vary on a daily basis. You are trying to strike a balance over a week or more. Write down the SWG percentage and the high outside temp for the day each time you test - this will help you set the SWG percentage as the seasons change moving forward.

Never let the FC fall below minimum for your CYA. And on heavy swim days, supplement with liquid chlorine instead of fussing with the SWG percentage. Running FC a little higher than the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] isn't going to hurt. Remember, it's safe to swim with FC no lower than the minimum and up to shock level based on CYA and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

After TA is around 60, let pH come up so you are keeping CSI slightly negative (0 to -0.30). Then, stay on top of pH to keep the CSI in range. Don't chase a specific CSI number, just keep it within that range and you should greatly reduce your SWG scaling.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Good job on working that TA lower by lowering the pH. Pretty soon you'll be at TA 60.

As for the SWG - personally, I wouldn't keep adjusting the percentage every day. Set it to 25% for now and test DAILY. If it's not maintaining the minimum on the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA], adjust it up a little. Your swimmer load, bather "waste", water temp, sun exposure and blown in organics/debris are going to vary on a daily basis. You are trying to strike a balance over a week or more. Write down the SWG percentage and the high outside temp for the day each time you test - this will help you set the SWG percentage as the seasons change moving forward.

Never let the FC fall below minimum for your CYA. And on heavy swim days, supplement with liquid chlorine instead of fussing with the SWG percentage. Running FC a little higher than the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] isn't going to hurt. Remember, it's safe to swim with FC no lower than the minimum and up to shock level based on CYA and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

After TA is around 60, let pH come up so you are keeping CSI slightly negative (0 to -0.30). Then, stay on top of pH to keep the CSI in range. Don't chase a specific CSI number, just keep it within that range and you should greatly reduce your SWG scaling.

thx! I haven't been checking the temps so I'll have to do that, too. Using the big water sample from the pool store sure made things easier! I turned up the salt cell and makes sense that I'll have to really pay attention on heavy swim days and add liquid chlorine on those days... Thx for all the great reminders and info! What I'm wondering is why my pH went up to 7.8 this morn. This is a busy time of year for me so I started only checking and adding acid once a day but that's still different for it to shoot up to 7.8. That gives me memories of when my CH was high. I'll keep checking daily and will be more on top of things this summer! I'll likely get my CYA to 70 in a bit, too, cuz in the end TFP has been right. Thank you!

 

[proavia]

So as not to confuse things about the temperature. Use water temp in PoolMath as water temp affects CSI.

Record high air temperature (whetever the news reports as the high temp in PHX is fine) and SWG percentage so you can establish a pattern for where the SWG setting is at a given air temp. This will provide a general idea of where to set the SWG percentage for a given temp. Of course, bather load, etc will affect this. And you still need to maintain your testing.

Testing pH once a day is fine. Test, add MA to your target.

 

[outdoorsgal]

So as not to confuse things about the temperature. Use water temp in PoolMath as water temp affects CSI.

Record high air temperature (whetever the news reports as the high temp in PHX is fine) and SWG percentage so you can establish a pattern for where the SWG setting is at a given air temp. This will provide a general idea of where to set the SWG percentage for a given temp. Of course, bather load, etc will affect this. And you still need to maintain your testing.

Testing pH once a day is fine. Test, add MA to your target.

thx so much! I can see how necessary it is to check every day especially for someone like me who tries to keep FC on the lower end. Kids not even in the water much, it's not even too hot yet and I've already bumped the cell up to 30%. FC got down to 3.5 yesterday morn and went down to 3 by 7:30pm and 3 on the 15th so I'm going to keep it a bit higher and keep checking and going to go with the recommended 70 CYA.

today FC 4.5. CC 0. pH steady 7.5 and I keep adding acid once a day.

On my way! Thx for everything!

 

[splashpad]

Edit: doesn't apply atm =)

 

[proavia]

Do a full set of new tests and post up the results.

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CSI
Water Temp

With your past record of not keeping up on testing/dosing, you should be keeping FC on the high side of target. Your reasons from last year to run FC on the low end are unfounded.

After we see a new numbers, we can better advise on where to keep your pH also - once the TA is at 60.

How many hours per day are you running the pump? List the times too..... (I'm guessing not between 3PM and 6PM based on your previous SRP time of use plan).

 

[outdoorsgal]

Do a full set of new tests and post up the results.

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CSI
Water Temp

With your past record of not keeping up on testing/dosing, you should be keeping FC on the high side of target. Your reasons from last year to run FC on the low end are unfounded.

After we see a new numbers, we can better advise on where to keep your pH also - once the TA is at 60.

How many hours per day are you running the pump? List the times too..... (I'm guessing not between 3PM and 6PM based on your previous SRP time of use plan).

Thx Gene,

#s from today:

FC 5
CC .5
pH 7.2
CH 310
TA 60
CYA from 5-14 60
salt from 5-8 3400
temp 83
CSI .-.75

Too bad I added acid before checking TA. I have the bubbler on to raise pH. When I tested before adding acid pH was 7.5. I verified an hour later and it had dropped to 7.2 so i'm going with that # now.

With the temps and everything how they are now I'm seeing that 7.8 is my sweet spot? that'll take CSI to -.2.

As for times pool runs, we have a small house and I'm always wondering why SRP says we use more than other comparable homes (in the winter. I do use heat more than other and we're low in the summer but not the lowest around for how warm we leave it i the house so I'm wondering if my pool has something to do with it).

T1- all- 90%
2 am- 6am
T2-all-40% (should I knocked this percentage down to save energy or do I need it that high to generate chlorine and/or for my in-floor?)
6am-12pm
T3- all- 85%
12p-2p
T4- all- 45%
6:30p-10:30p
T3

- - - Updated - - -

according to pool math maybe i'm mistaken regarding aerating the pool? is it just to lower TA? If so, i need to shut the bubbler off. Seems borax i what i'd want to use to raise pH. will just wait it out for this case, though, right?

 

[proavia]

A current CYA (if you've added any since 5/14) and an updated salt test would be nice.

Whenever doing tests - NEVER ad anything until after all the tests you plan to do that day are complete - otherwise you are flying blind.

Adding acid to lower pH also lowers TA. Aerating raises pH while doing nothing to TA.

Aerate until the pH is about 7.5 and then let it rise further by itself. 7.7-7.8 is your sweet spot for now with TA of 60. As CH increases, the target pH will change - just use PoolMath to see where your pH should be in relation to CSI. We are looking for the pH rise to stabilize - or rise very slowly.

I thought you were adding CYA to get to 70... "... I'm going to keep it (FC) a bit higher and keep checking and going to go with the recommended 70 CYA..." It's going to get hotter this coming week - get the CYA to 70 ASAP.

I see you reported pump speeds in percentages (%) - any chance you can report them in RPM's instead? With your variable speed pump, you should try running the in-floor twice daily for 2 hours each time (morning [7AM-9AM] and afternoon [6PM-8PM]). This would be at a high rpm (try 3000 rpm to start - adjust up/down from there to get the clean you want) and the rest of the time run the pump at a low rpm - about 100-200 rpm higher than needed to close the flow switch on the SWG..... my pump runs 24/7 - 4 hours daily at 2800 rpm (2 hours twice) for the in-floors to work and 1100 rpm the other 20 hours. It cost me about $20-$25 per month to run the pump.

 

[outdoorsgal]

A current CYA (if you've added any since 5/14) and an updated salt test would be nice.

Whenever doing tests - NEVER ad anything until after all the tests you plan to do that day are complete - otherwise you are flying blind.

Adding acid to lower pH also lowers TA. Aerating raises pH while doing nothing to TA.

Aerate until the pH is about 7.5 and then let it rise further by itself. 7.7-7.8 is your sweet spot for now with TA of 60. As CH increases, the target pH will change - just use PoolMath to see where your pH should be in relation to CSI. We are looking for the pH rise to stabilize - or rise very slowly.

I thought you were adding CYA to get to 70... "... I'm going to keep it (FC) a bit higher and keep checking and going to go with the recommended 70 CYA..." It's going to get hotter this coming week - get the CYA to 70 ASAP.

I see you reported pump speeds in percentages (%) - any chance you can report them in RPM's instead? With your variable speed pump, you should try running the in-floor twice daily for 2 hours each time (morning [7AM-9AM] and afternoon [6PM-8PM]). This would be at a high rpm (try 3000 rpm to start - adjust up/down from there to get the clean you want) and the rest of the time run the pump at a low rpm - about 100-200 rpm higher than needed to close the flow switch on the SWG..... my pump runs 24/7 - 4 hours daily at 2800 rpm (2 hours twice) for the in-floors to work and 1100 rpm the other 20 hours. It cost me about $20-$25 per month to run the pump.

Gene, Sorry for the delay. I read your post earlier in the week and have been so busy to reply. I've also been so busy I forgot to test a couple of days. I know. With other important time-lines and not home much it wasn't even on my mind. Bad thing is I got under the minimum FC and it was at 2.5 when I checked a couple of days ago. No signs of algae and once it got down to 3.5 and I added chlorine. I never would've done that in the past.

I added more CYA a couple of days ago and there's just a couple Tblsps in the stocking which I'll let sit another night-those last chunks take forever. I'm really, really busy and going out of town Wed-Friday. I'll try to give a full set of #s tomorrow but more likely on Monday since it wouldn't really have been 24 hrs with CYA dissolved. I added a couple of containers just like you initially said I'd need, it just took me a looooooong time. I don't recall if both containers were the same and same lbs. I think I got them both at HD in a plastic bag. We'll see when I measure, but I think I'll be at 70. I bet my salt hasn't changed but I've had a hard time with that test historically. I'll remeasure. I've been turning up the salt cell and yesterday bumped it to 40% and today 45%. We'll see how this plays out but I might bump it up to 70% or something when I go out of town.

As for pH maybe it'd be best to give u my results for this week:

5-21
pH 7.6
FC 4.5
CC .5

skipped 2 days. I know.

5-24
pH 7.8 added 3 oz acid
FC 2.5
CC 0

5-25
pH 7.8
FC 5

5.26
pH 7.8 It's a little hard to tell between 7.7 and 7.8 but I haven't added acid for 2 days so I'll call it 7.8 and add 3 oz. acid.
FC 4
CC 0

There wasn't any swimming the days I missed and kids not in pool much yet.

As for when I run my pump, great question. I don't know how to change from percentages to RPMs. I looked today. If anyone can walk me through this that'd be great. thx!

 

[outdoorsgal]

just got around to taking a full test but I was rushing and didn't have time to retake anything. I thought the CYA would've been up to 70 after adding 2 bags (9 lbs total, I think).
I'll redo when i return from being out of town. I leave early in the morn.

FC=4
CC=0
pH=7.8
TA=80
CYA=60
salt=3400
CH=340
82 degrees
CSI=.03

I turned the cell up to 70%. It was at 40% and had just shut off after running for hours so it's about to be in the sun not running for a few hrs so I changed the run time to go up to 3pm. I'll see if someone posts regarding how to tell RPMs and will be glad to adjust that when I return. I'm going to add chlorine to cover for the next few hrs. Unless I hear differently I think I'll add acid to go down to 7.2 since my TA has increased and I'm going out of town for 3 full days.

Anything else? Sound good? thx!

- - - Updated - - -

I have not touched my salt cell but I do see it needing to slowly creep up in % needed, although it's really getting hot now. I will also add some more CYA as worst case scenario, if I was off in my readings I won't go over 80 if I add another 10 oz.

 

[proavia]

Yes add acid to target 7.2... you will be gone for a few days and it will creep up in your absence.

Turning the SWG from 40% to 70% and adding a little more stabilizer is a good idea. When you return, take the time to check all your numbers again. If FC appears high on your return, lower the percentage by 10 - to 60% - and monitor to see if FC stabilizes at your target per the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA].

I think lowering TA to 60 will help stabilize the pH. pH will still creep up, but at a slower rate. You will still need to test and monitor FC and pH daily.