thinking of emptying pool

Once you get the instant salinity to read over 2,700 ppm on the box, save it to update the average salinity.

Then go to the first diagnostics screen where it shows volts, amps, temperature and salinity and press + to reverse polarity.

There will be a 15 second delay and the cell will come back on. The voltage will be reversed, but all of the readings should be the same.

i think i did this correctly, thank you. pool is saying between 2700 and 2800 now. so, that's good, but no sense in working the cell too hard, i guess, so i'll keep it at 65% now/ i imagine I should still add another bag or a half of salt so that it doesn't run under?
 
Leave the stabilizer dissolving.

I'm suspecting something isn't right with your testing. First, review the testing direction. Then be sure you are using the correct reagents to test. Have "hubbie" watchall the kids - take another water sample - test FC and CC again (be methodical) - report back here with new results.

Has anyone added anything to the pool - besides the urine yesterday? Go chedk the trash cans and other areas to see if there is an empty bag or bottle of anything suspicious.

I would suggest NO swimmimg until this issue is resolved.

Also, once swimming resumes, schedule potty breaks. Everyone OUT - kids and adults.
 
Leave the stabilizer dissolving.

I'm suspecting something isn't right with your testing. First, review the testing direction. Then be sure you are using the correct reagents to test. Have "hubbie" watchall the kids - take another water sample - test FC and CC again (be methodical) - report back here with new results.

Has anyone added anything to the pool - besides the urine yesterday? Go chedk the trash cans and other areas to see if there is an empty bag or bottle of anything suspicious.

I would suggest NO swimmimg until this issue is resolved.

Also, once swimming resumes, schedule potty breaks. Everyone OUT - kids and adults.

there must be a problem with my testing but i've tried everything, including testing 7 times in a row with drops at different speeds. using the same regeant. often times during this process, without distractions. using the right reagant. I don't know. how can i get a 1 CC at 5:30 and then 2.5 at 7:20, then 1.5? Either way, it's high but my testing has historically been so off that i'm not willing to do a 2 week SLAM with crystal clear water unless I truly can't maintain FC. I have to assume my testing stinks at this point. At the same time, there's no mistaking the darker pink color of that test tube when I added 5 drops of r-0003.

i was around and saw nothing else getting added to the pool besides pee. I don't believe FC dropped below 4.5 this whole time, either. Should I SLAM? I also read that the increase in CC can be a good sign of chlorine doing it's job.
 
I would get the salinity up to about 3,000 ppm.

Make sure to turn off the salt cell when adding salt if the main drain is open to avoid getting a large concentration of salt going through the cell if the salt gets sucked into the main drain.

I wouldn't SLAM especially since the CC is just transient and should resolve on its own. Maybe increase the fc/cya ratio to 15 % for a day or so but that's all.
 
I went to Leslies today to have them test my water, too. I know I've been told not to do that but i'm wondering if it might confirm something or i can watch how they do their tests and "learn something" or feel better that I'm not the only one who's off. I had to get silicone anyway. So, I felt better that they said last time I had 500 phosphates and now i have 300 phosphates. I don't know much about phosphates as I have definitely believed the TFP method in that regard and haven't bothered with the concept of phosphates but nice to see his measurements must've been off if what they say the only way to lessen phosphates is to drain or add their chemical. other than that their salt # was 2700 and he's pretty sure his salt test is accurate. salt seems like the easiest test to me, so i don't know how i could have been getting it wrong in the end. they also said 100 for calcium each time. i think they've got to be wrong. then they said 4 for FC when I had just gotten 11.5 earlier and 5.5 a couple hrs later.

i dont' know. the guy at Leslies's drops were really fast. am i going too slow? sometimes i wait like a couple seconds in between drops and sometimes i go pretty steady. sometimes i tip the bottle over between drops and sometimes i leave it facing down. maybe that's a problem?

- - - Updated - - -

I would get the salinity up to about 3,000 ppm.

Make sure to turn off the salt cell when adding salt if the main drain is open to avoid getting a large concentration of salt going through the cell if the salt gets sucked into the main drain.

I wouldn't SLAM especially since the CC is just transient and should resolve on its own. Maybe increase the fc/cya ratio to 15 % for a day or so but that's all.

oh, good! thx! Well, I'll tell ya, my son's prob not going to pee in the pool, again, anyway.
I thought the salinity was 3000 or more, but you mean 3000 on the panel? i wonder how much the panel is allowed to be off? 200-300?
 
When you take a sample, are you in front of a return?

If the cell is on, the fc near a return will be higher than in the general bulk water.

Also, make sure that if you're using a sample container, it is super clean and never used for chemicals.

Rinse the sample vial two or three times before and after each test.

FAS/DPD Chlorine test for the TF-100 - YouTube

For salinity, the test and box don't always exactly agree. Just get the salinity on the box to about 3,000 ppm.
 
Well you just saw how accurate store testing is.

Your getting your head into the game too much, it sounds like your doing a great job don't worry so much about it!

Do you use a pool cover?

Definitely boost your FC with bleach for a bit just in case. I would do it for a week and it's still swimmable.

I would also pick up a jug of distilled water to rinse your test vial. I'm pretty sure your supposed to wash it with soap and rinse it with water, distilled should get rid of varibles. It's probably a good idea to do that with the sample cup before grabbing a sample.

You grab a sample arms deep correct?
 
Take the sample from the same location each time. Put your hand/arm in elbow deep and then turn sample bottle over to allow water in.

Pump must be on and circulating for at least 30 minutes prior to taking sample.

Mesure sample quantity carefully. Maybe use a 10ml syringe to measure accurately (like the kind for kids liquid meds). Get a new one from the pharmacy and keep it in your testkit box.

Hold each reagent bottle completely vertical.

Allow each drop to fully form on the dropper tip. Squeeze out one drop per second.

Consistency is key to successful testing.
 
update for today and i'll reply to messages:

FC 9
CC 2.5!
pH 7.5
AZ sun but still cloudy today. Hoping to see that CC # come down soon!

PB came out today and told me the salt cell/system just had to recallibrate/reset itself and he knew the check system light would go on when he left and that it'd go off by today. It still seems like it took quite a while for it to pick up on 2800 PPM, which is what it's now saying. Seems I could go either way-add a bag or let it sit in the shed until I backwash a few times and then need to add. I mentioned CC to him and he didn't know what it was and said pb has built 30k pools and I'm the only one he knows of checking levels daily and the health dept isn't coming out to check my pool so i shouldn't worry about CC. He said my FC was too high and that he didn't even know what FC was and I need to pay attention to FAC and TAC (total alkalinity). He said others with salt cells don't have pools turning green as long as they keep their chlorine around 1-3. I didn't tell him I'm adding more CYA as he'd really think I'm nuts and I'd start doubting the method again. It has felt hard, though, and he makes it sound like I'm making it harder than it needs to be.

Yesterday when I went to the pool store I watched the guy tell the lady that she needed to empty her pool but it was too hot and he sold her algaeside and told her to dump 2 cups of acid into the pool every couple of hrs until it reaches 10 cups. Then what? i guess she needs to go back to the store? I never learned "the other way" so all I can do is wonder.

In the end, I know I had probs with calcium and if I can get to the point where I don't need to clean the calcium out every 3 mths I think I'll stop himming and hawing about TFP method since I have so many around me that seem to not struggle so much. In the meantime, I'm here. You've all been very helpful. I am sick of testing daily and not being able to do it right, but I'm in this far. let's keep going. :)

I also realized that since my quick skim is partially on it's blowing some of the CYA back into the pool when I try to get it out of the sock. I'm not sure if that matters much but I'm still going slow and being conservative with the CYA. I did add 20 oz yesterday, though!
 
When you take a sample, are you in front of a return?

If the cell is on, the fc near a return will be higher than in the general bulk water.

Also, make sure that if you're using a sample container, it is super clean and never used for chemicals.

Rinse the sample vial two or three times before and after each test.

FAS/DPD Chlorine test for the TF-100 - YouTube

For salinity, the test and box don't always exactly agree. Just get the salinity on the box to about 3,000 ppm.

thx. I do what it shows in the video where I take the sample tube to the pool. I rinse it in the water a couple of times and that's after I had rinsed in the sink after having finished testing the previous time.

Are you saying I should take a different sample tube like the bigger one from the pool store and poor that into the tubes? then they'd be less rinsed i suppose.

i usually have a spot in the middle of the pool i take samples from but i will say since the pee incident this weekend i have been using a different spot since the big gate got opened up. there is a return there! i'll go back to the other spot. another thing Ive done is started to take like 5 sample tubes to the pool so that i can fill 2 or 3 with 10 ml and 1 or 2 with 25, then an extra so if i need to do another test i don't have to keep getting up and going back to the pool. i do get up after two samples to go rinse the two magnets i have, though.

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Well you just saw how accurate store testing is.

Your getting your head into the game too much, it sounds like your doing a great job don't worry so much about it!

Do you use a pool cover?

Definitely boost your FC with bleach for a bit just in case. I would do it for a week and it's still swimmable.

I would also pick up a jug of distilled water to rinse your test vial. I'm pretty sure your supposed to wash it with soap and rinse it with water, distilled should get rid of varibles. It's probably a good idea to do that with the sample cup before grabbing a sample.

You grab a sample arms deep correct?

yes, about elbow's length deep. distilled water? soap? i don't do that. does everyone do this?
 

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Take the sample from the same location each time. Put your hand/arm in elbow deep and then turn sample bottle over to allow water in.

Pump must be on and circulating for at least 30 minutes prior to taking sample.

Mesure sample quantity carefully. Maybe use a 10ml syringe to measure accurately (like the kind for kids liquid meds). Get a new one from the pharmacy and keep it in your testkit box.

Hold each reagent bottle completely vertical.

Allow each drop to fully form on the dropper tip. Squeeze out one drop per second.

Consistency is key to successful testing.

syringe is a good idea. they used them at leslies. well, they still weren't accurate. :)

i don't think pool is always running when i test. i'm going to have to work on remembering this. maybe this is a big part of the problem although I'd be curious how much of the prob it is when i'm measuring different tubes right at the same sitting. hold vertically. got it. i prob need to be better at this, too. 1 sec drops. ok. all great info. thx!

i'll add some salt.
 
syringe is a good idea. they used them at leslies. well, they still weren't accurate. :)

i don't think pool is always running when i test. i'm going to have to work on remembering this. maybe this is a big part of the problem although I'd be curious how much of the prob it is when i'm measuring different tubes right at the same sitting. hold vertically. got it. i prob need to be better at this, too. 1 sec drops. ok. all great info. thx!

i'll add some salt.

No, I just rinse with tap water, clean with soap every once in a while. Just might be good to double check.
 
Yeah - you are making this WAY more difficult than needed.

Pool pump needs to be running for 30 minutes or so BEFORE you take the water sample to be sure the water is mixed well. Do NOT take the sample from directly in front of a return. It is possible the FC could read higher in front of a return cause you have a SWG.

Are you saying you take the vials out to the pool and fill each one individually from the pool? Why are you not getting a free water sample bottle at the PS? Take that bottle, rinse with pool water a few times and fill it with your sample water. There will be enough in there to do ALL the tests. No need to take the sample vials out to the pool and fill each one individually at the pool.

Now, since you have enough water in the sample bottle, go sit somewhere comfortable - on the patio in the shade or in the kitchen. Get the testkit set up speed stir out. Rinse the vial with pool water (it should already be clean from last testing) and rinse it out. Fill to required quantity and do that test. When that test is complete, dump the vial contents in the dirt/rocks outside or in the kitchen sink if inside. Rinse the vial well and use it for the next test.

The only test that needs to be completed outside is the CYA test. But that doesn't mean you can't mix the R-0013 and pool water inside or in the shade - it's just the actual putting the mixture into the test tube that needs to be done outside, your back to the sun, etc.....

I've been doing it that way for over 3 years. My results are very consistant and reliable.

Testing everday? Yup - you need to do the FC/CC and pH tests EVERYDAY! At least until you have a feel for how your pool behaves. Your 2 biggest issues are taking the time to test (3-5 minutes a day max) and keeping your pH under control (this is why your SWG scales up so quickly). If you have time to swim or let the kids swim, you have time to correctly test your pool water.

Not testing and then listening to the PS is what gets pool owners into trouble in the first place (and lines the PS pockets). And then the pool owner throws money at the pool cause they don't know (or don't want to know) how to correctly manage their pool.
 
As for the FC/CC test.....

After the FC portion is complete, are you immediately added the 5 drops of R-0003? After adding the R-0003, if it turns pink, are you adding the R-0871 immediately and recording the CC reading as soon as the solution goes clear the first time? If you leave the solution sit, it WILL turn pink again... the FC and CC tests are complete when the FIRST turn clear.

As James said - the CC results are unlikely.
 
In post #249 you mentioned the PS guy mentioned FAC and TAC.
Those refer to Free Available Chlorine and Total Available Chlorine.

FAC = FC
TAC = FC plus CC

If you go to the PS, don't bother having them test - even if you are not getting consistent results when testing yourself. If you are doubting your results, adding PS results only confuses the issue further. And if you start believing PS results, you are only going to cause more issues for yourself - and those issues will take more time to resolve (time you already don't have).

When at the PS, get exactly what you need. Don't discuss your pool chemical levels or water quality with them. Don't listen to what they are telling other customers. Doing so has confused you in the past and increased your confusion.

In the end, it's your pool. You have have every right to maintain it however you wish. Choose the TFP way or the PS/PB way. But don't try to mix the two - it just won't work.
 
Good morning. thx for all the help! tested and when I looked at the panel to get temperature this is what I saw. I will post in a minute:

on diagnostic menu:
-chlorinator off
% met
-0000 ppm (+save)
-flow
-VSP speed/power
+ to view (this is particularly an area that's a cue for me. I called Hayward Friday and when I told the person I was seeing that they said I was into something I shouldn't mess with and I had to get the salt level up before anyone could do anything.

I didn't add any more salt as I wanted to wait for an accurate test today but the salt value keeps increasing. Today on the default menu it's reading:
salt level 2900

There is no check system light on which is good but I'm confused about what's on the diagnostic menu. The message on the diagnostic menu seems to be intermittent. Yesterday on that panel it was reading 2700/2800. The pump is running at 40% right now. Maybe I need to learn what the diagnostic menu and default menu are for?

- - - Updated - - -

The CC number does not seem likely. Are you sure that you’re running the FC part to completion?

pretty sure, yes

- - - Updated - - -

No, I just rinse with tap water, clean with soap every once in a while. Just might be good to double check.

yep, i washed with soap this time. there were some tiny black things in some of the viles. maybe from the salt test? if i were to rub my finger across the inside it'd show that there was something, like a black powdery substance that i rubbed off. I'm sure that helped a lot!

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah - you are making this WAY more difficult than needed.

Pool pump needs to be running for 30 minutes or so BEFORE you take the water sample to be sure the water is mixed well. Do NOT take the sample from directly in front of a return. It is possible the FC could read higher in front of a return cause you have a SWG.

Are you saying you take the vials out to the pool and fill each one individually from the pool? Why are you not getting a free water sample bottle at the PS? Take that bottle, rinse with pool water a few times and fill it with your sample water. There will be enough in there to do ALL the tests. No need to take the sample vials out to the pool and fill each one individually at the pool.

Now, since you have enough water in the sample bottle, go sit somewhere comfortable - on the patio in the shade or in the kitchen. Get the testkit set up speed stir out. Rinse the vial with pool water (it should already be clean from last testing) and rinse it out. Fill to required quantity and do that test. When that test is complete, dump the vial contents in the dirt/rocks outside or in the kitchen sink if inside. Rinse the vial well and use it for the next test.
well, yes, i tend to do things the hard way. :eek: ps water tester is not in my kit. i need a bigger test kit box. or i need to take the top off and know that i'll never shut it again and that way i can just stand up the bottles i need and group them together. i think i also need to throw out my chlorine tester tube. it's getting harder to see through. now i know why it says "chlorine only." it's hard to know where's best to test sometimes as i have a brown table outside and inside kitchen and my kitchen counter is whiter but not the best lighting. i try to test outside if able and if i miss the daytime testing pH inside tends to be difficult. Maybe i should take the pH vial to the bathroom or search for better light in the house. Usually I'm able to test in the day.

- - - Updated - - -

As for the FC/CC test.....

After the FC portion is complete, are you immediately added the 5 drops of R-0003? After adding the R-0003, if it turns pink, are you adding the R-0871 immediately and recording the CC reading as soon as the solution goes clear the first time? If you leave the solution sit, it WILL turn pink again... the FC and CC tests are complete when the FIRST turn clear.

As James said - the CC results are unlikely.

yep, i'm pretty confident CC was high. I know i had the difference between 1.5 and 2.5 once but I'm pretty confident it was up there. there was no mistaking that dramatic change in color when i added the r-0003. i didn't mess around and it was done immediately. if anything, i'm trying to slow myself down, not speed myself up. it was done fast. great news, though, it's back to normal today! strange? maybe it was my dirty test tubes? maybe all the kids peed in the pool?! :eek:
 
Today at 7:45am (it's now 8:45. how does it take me an hour to test and post and I still haven't added acid?!):

FC 12.5 (so i turned cell down from 35% to 20%. turning it down is where i've gotten into trouble before so i'll have to watch carefully. seems i have plenty of time to check later today and still have chlorine from my history of these past 2 weeks-even though it may be sunnier today)
CC .5. yes, .5
pH=7.5
TA 90! check twice!
CH 300.
80 degrees
CYA-i'll recheck tomorrow or so. there was still cya in the sock last night that i dumped i the pool. just a couple Tbsps.

CSI-i gotta go to work and if i'm sticking with dosing to get pH to 7.2 for a bit longer i'm not going to bother right now with CSI.

that's the latest. i'll pop back around later. gotta go add 33 oz acid. thx!
 
Those test results look good!

Watch your FC closely as you get the SWG dialed in. Keep working to lower that TA number to 60-70.

I wouldn't take the top off the testkit box - if you do, important items will get misplaced. The "ps water tester" is just a bottle w/screw on cap to put the sample water in. It doesn't fit in the testkit box.

As for the chlorine tester vial. Clean it out really good. Then put a mixture of water and acid in it (about the same ratio of water/acid you use to clean your salt cell). Let it soak for a while, rinse.
 
Ok, I think that you're getting this under control. The system cycles on and off depending on the percentage setting. It's a 180 minute cycle. So, if the percentage is 20%, it will produce for 36 minutes, then be off for 144 minutes. Then, the polarity will reverse and the cycle will begin again.

To see volts, amps and instant salinity, you have to catch it while it's producing.

When the pool gets used, it's usual to see CCs even if no one pees. Sweat, suntan lotion etc all contribute to organic loading and can cause temporary CCs.

Also, most kids probably pee in pools, at least sometimes. If all the kids have had a quart of soda and no one has gotten out to take a bathroom break in 3 hours, someone is peeing in the pool.

If you get minor CC levels, just bump up the FC to about 15% percent of the CYA for a day or two and they should disappear.
 

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