thinking of emptying pool

[proavia]

You are going to be starting up the SWG very soon. This will cause your pH to rise quicker that it does now. Lowering the TA a bit quicker will help slow the pH rise.

I thought you would shoot for a little lower than 7.5 (and a CSI barely 3/100 lower than zero). It's time to be more agressive about lowering your TA to about 60. Lower pH to 7.2, let rise to 7.5 - lower to 7.2... etc etc - until TA is in the 60-70 range... then let pH rise to 7.7-7.8 and check all levels again.

Again - for CSI - NOT as close to zero as possible....within the RANGE of 0 to -0.30 (zero to negative 3/10 - negative 30/100).

I'm not in a hurry to lower my TA cause I don't have a SWG which will cause my pH to rise. And I also check my water a bit more often than you do (one of the luxuries of being retired and not having little ones under foot on a daily basis).

You need to add 38oz of granular stabilizer to get to CYA 70.
10 oz will only raise the CYA by about 5. Certainly not enough.....

Ain't none of us going down in the quicksand.. now go dose the pool as suggested.

 

[outdoorsgal]

FC 6
CC 0
pH 7.8
TA=120 from 5-1
salt=2600 from 5-2 + 1/2 bag yesterday-retest later
CH=300 from 4-28
CYA=50 from 5-1-added 10 oz-will add more
CSI=.17
74 degrees

what u say makes sense. so, if i'm able to go as low as -.30, bringing pH to 7.2 right now would bring CSI to -.42 so I'll bring it to 7.35 (not a # in pool math but that'll take it closer to -.30. I'm adding 60oz acid to accomplish that. Or do i just go down to 7.2 for now to do the KISS method and get TA lower faster knowing it's taking CSI to -.42?

I know tfp is all about the chlorine/CYA ratio but I know I get hesitant about adding more than 50 CYA since it's everywhere from the CYA bottle to the pb... That's my own issue i'm working through and will work through in time. I know 70-80is ideal but it seems 60 is doable at least. I'm also thinking I'd like a little room in case I need to throw in some tabs while i'm out of town this summer. the neighbor only added one of the gallons of acid i left her the whole time i was gone. hopefully i won't have issues with the salt cell at that point so this will be a non issue but i'd like to go a bit slower with that so i'll add enough cya to get me to 60 for now.

as for panel, this morn it said something like "salt level good" but then it still said 1200 and now the check system light is on and it says very low salt. i'll retest for salt a bit later when i have more time. pb emailed me yesterday and i mentioned to her what the panel was saying and she said it takes about 48 hrs for it to adjust. she had suggested to add 1/2 bag salt yesterday and go slow and give it time. i ended adding the whole bag so we'll see...

turning on bubbler

 

[santacruzpool]

ADD SALT - I think you need to get the salt up above 3000 - 1/2 a bag won't do that...

My pool is 14k as well and one 40 pound bag of salt bumps me up a little more than 300 ppm - so when my water tests, and/or my Jandy cell, gets to around 2800 to 2900 I go buy a bag of salt and add it.

If you add two entire 40lb bags it should bump your salt up to around 3200-3300 - that is working with the assumption that the water is still at 2600 as you just posted. That 3200 value would be perfect. Even if your overshoot it a little it would take another 40lbs to get above 3600.

 

[proavia]

Use the KISS method and take the pH down to 7.2. CSI being below -0.30 isn'tgoing to do any harm for a few days while working your TA down. The actual listed CSI on the low end is -0.60. Keeping it between 0 and -0.30 is recommended for everyday SWG use to prevent scaling.

How much stabilizer did you wind up adding? If you only added 10oz, add an additional 28oz (38oz total to raise CYA by 20 - CYA was 50 yesterday, plus 20 equals the recommeded CYA 70). Getthat additional stabilizer in a sock and dissolving ASAP.

We need new TA, salt and CYA numbers.... TODAY. Then we can recommend what to do next.

Remember, it's going to be hot (100-105) for the next week. Let's get the salt, CYA and TA were it needs to be and get this simple drain/refill wrapped up!

 

[outdoorsgal]

thank you. i added 10 oz cya and it's not all dissolved so i'll have to go and work it through the stocking. i'm stubborn on being slow on this one.
just measured:
FC=4.5 so i'll add 1/2 gallon
pH 7.5 so i should lower to 7.2 for now instead of waiting til it gets to 7.6/8, right?
TA=110. bubbler still on
salt=2800. panel says 2000. I'm sure I'll be told to add a bag. i'll have to go to the store to buy some tonight. At that point if the panel doesn't catch up with reading within 200 accuracy or so i'm going to be :sad:

 

[proavia]

After that 10oz of stabilizer is dissolved, it's only going to raise CYA about 5.

Yes, lower pH to 7.2 now. When it gets to 7.5, lower it again. You are trying to lower the TA to 60-70 so your pH doesn't rise as quickly once the SWG is online.

Remember, as CYA increases you will need to refer to the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] to find your new minimum and target levels. You are still operating a non-SWG pool - and will be until the SWG is running correctly.

Salt drop test = 2800. Go with that number. Yeah - add 1 more bag. Should get you to 3100.

Several times in this thread you have said you should have just listened to us and done as suggested (and saved time and $$$). You should do that again with the CYA. Bump it up to 70. With the heat/sun we have coming this weekend, you will need it at 70 so the FC the SWG adds isn't burned off by the intense UV of the sun.

I'm not sure if there is a way to reset the salt count on your cell so it will resample and produce an updated reading. I will ask around to see if this is possible.

FYI - the bubbler doesn't lower the TA. Adding muriatic acid lowers and pH and TA. Aerating (running the bubbler in this case) cause the pH to increase. Once pH increases, you add more acid to lower pH and TA.

 

[JamesW]

What cell did you get?

What are the diagnostic readings?

 

[outdoorsgal]

got it and will reply more thoroughly tomorrow. for now, yes, I realize the aerator is to raise pH. Since you said I should move it along I figured that'd help.

cell replacement is the turbo cell glx-cell-15-w. maybe that's different than what's in my signature and i'll need to change my signature now?

readings:
chlorinator off-percentage met
flow switch; flow
chlorinator off-test salt level
check system-very low salt
vsp speed/power
instant salt; 2700 ppm (+=save) (I was tempted to mess with this but I don't know what i'm doing so i scrolled past it-makes me think it didn't get set when installed?)
vsp software + to view
salt level 2000 ppm
check system light is on

 

[outdoorsgal]

today around noon I tested a few things and didn't have time to post:
FC=5.5
CC-skipped. was in hurry
pH=7.5 so I added 33 oz acid to get pH to 7.2
CYA=ideal outside-sunny at noon and with sun to my back it bumped up to 60.
salt-I measured it 7 times, yes 7, each time confident I was doing a good job measuring, so no idea why i got different readings. I had taking water from 3 different parts of the pool but the last 3 measurements r from the same spot:
salt:
3200
3400
3000
3600
3400
3000
3000

I'm going with 3000 since I got that measurement twice but either way I was in contact with PB since the panel is still stuck reading 2000 and they told me they don't want me to add more salt and I tried my hardest to get them out here for today or tomorrow but they'll come monday morn.

I'll keep up with the pH and chlorine for the weekend and if someone is able to help me reset the panel, great, otherwise, never know, I might get a new panel out of it. So, as far as I see it, I wait, now and maintain a chlorine pool. Why I got so many different salt measurements is strange to me. I try to drop not too fast or slow, allow full drops, and followed all the directions. i allow the water to go right to the 10 and if I have too much I dump it out. I rinse the tubes at least a couple times. I'm using the new reagents. I never got under 3k, though, so it's gotta be on target now for my system.

I also have to say, I'm glad I'm going slow, although it may seem crazy but I have not added extra CYA since and it jumped a good 10. I'll be looking at CYA again, too, and pH twice a day and watching for TA to get towards 60.

One thing that I'm not doing right is not allowing the pool to run 24 hrs consistently so that might be one thing with #s taking longer to catch up. It seems like a hassle to reprogram the timer so i try to go out and turn on pump when i remember but i don't always do that.

 

[JamesW]

Go back to instant salinity and press + to save. That will update the average salinity from 2,000 to whatever the instant salinity is.

If the salt is not producing. Turn percentage to zero. Wait 1 minute and then turn percentage to 60 % then go to instant salinity, wait for the number to settle then press + to save.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Go back to instant salinity and press + to save. That will update the average salinity from 2,000 to whatever the instant salinity is.

If the salt is not producing. Turn percentage to zero. Wait 1 minute and then turn percentage to 60 % then go to instant salinity, wait for the number to settle then press + to save.

thx. i tried that and # wasn't moving at all. pressed + and now it saved at 0000 ppm. hope there's a way to override it.

 

[JamesW]

Go to settings and turn on superchlorinate. Then go to instant salinity and press save.

 

[outdoorsgal]

that worked! thx! now, though, it's only reading 2600. max my system can handle is 3400. my measurements were between 3000 and 3600. I took the panel off of super chlorinator and put it on 65% and now since, it's reading under 2700, i imagine, it still says "chlorinator off. percentage met." then on instant salt it was going back and forth between 2500 and 2600 and had (+=save). I didn't save there. In one area it says "instant salt 0000 PPM." also says "check system. low salt."

i'll measure again and post updates from yesterday and today in a bit. i've always been over in measurements for my salt cell. pb comes tomorrow morn and told me not to add any salt but depending on what i measure today i'm guessing i'm going to have to add salt. with my crazy readings i guess i could continue to go slow and add 1/2 bag today?

 

[JamesW]

How old is the cell?

If the cell is 5 years or older and the salinity is reading more than 800 below actual, you need a new cell.

 

[proavia]

I believe the PB replaced the cell with a "turbo cell glx-cell-15-w" early last week.
See post #228

 

[JamesW]

Ok, with a new cell, the system should be accurate. Maybe an issue with the testing.

Note that you can expect some differences between salinity as measured by a test and by the system.

No salinity test is super accurate. As long as the levels are within 800 ppm, I wouldn't worry.

Just get the box reading above 2,700 ppm.

 

[outdoorsgal]

Ok, with a new cell, the system should be accurate. Maybe an issue with the testing.

Note that you can expect some differences between salinity as measured by a test and by the system.

No salinity test is super accurate. As long as the levels are within 800 ppm, I wouldn't worry.

Just get the box reading above 2,700 ppm.

ok, i guess that's what i'll have to do. glad to hear that no salinity test is super accurate. that doesn't exactly make me feel better about testing differently each time i test but i'll just go with it. thx

 

[outdoorsgal]

I wasn't sure if I needed to post what should've been plain ol' getting the pH down, then when I saw a possible problem last night I thought I'd research it on TFP and see if I could handle it before being told to SLAM. After the what felt like a never ending SLAM last time, the last thing I want to do is SLAM if needed.

Yesterday 11:30am:

FC=8
pH=7.5
was in a hurry so that's all i measured. added 33 oz acid

last night my 3 kids jumped in along with a neighborhood kid. I waited until they got out and tested at 7:30pm.

FC=5.5
CC=1
I added 33 oz acid figuring pH was surely 7.5. It's been a consistent theme.

Looking at my notes I didn't write down if I added chlorine but I know I dumped in an extra 1/2 gallon above what I thought I needed thinking it'd get the CC down and I could be on track this morn as far as that, anyway.

this mornings' measurements:

FC=11.5
CC-1
pH=7.5
salt=
3200
3000
3400 (noted I went faster this time-prob not the most accurate reading)
3000. I guess I'll have to go with 3k considering I got that twice and yesterday 3 out of the 7 times.
TA=100. That's one good news
CYA=40. u've got to be kidding me! I did it twice and the time of day can't make that much of a difference!
CH= by this time I was running out of time and patience. I thought I may have got 525 then tried to retake and the color wasn't changing blue at all so instead of seeing what I did wrong I scrapped it and figured I'd get back to it later.

I'm a bit beyond frustration when it comes to my measuring now. I've been told everything on this site and no matter how much I think I'm doing it right, try several times in the same lighting with the same reagents, something's not going right. This is when I think that other pool owners aren't spending hours measuring and typing and maybe I need to just try my best and go from there. A typical pool owner would not have measured CC and wouldn't have known there was a potential prob. I should be glad that I have the privilege to dodge a big prob before it starts. However, before SLAMing when we shocked the pool it was easier. What I read last night was that the guidelines here are guidelines. I am going to try to follow them as much as I can but at the same time if I feel a SLAM is going on for weeks and pool is crystal clear and all else is well, I'm going to have to consider that there's something with regards to my measuring that could perhaps always be problematic so I'll average in all the info and try my best and go from there.

Having said that, pb is coming tomorrow, warranty is almost over, i'll wait until they leave to then add more salt. I'll add CYA but my measuring is the worst so i'll continue to go slow.

Some good news that has come out of this. My 13 year old admitted to peeing in the pool yesterday and I told him next time the #s are off he's buying the chlorine and he's SLAMing the pool. I want them to be able to swim again today and only God knows what my CYA is so I'm not going to put super high chlorine amounts until tonight and even then, the pb may measure tomorrow so I'll be conservative for now and when he leaves tomorrow I'll pour a gallon of chlorine and 1/2 bag of salt in and mosey along my way.

I have to say, this is humbling. And frustrating. It's ok though and I still like my pool.

 

[JamesW]

Once you get the instant salinity to read over 2,700 ppm on the box, save it to update the average salinity.

Then go to the first diagnostics screen where it shows volts, amps, temperature and salinity and press + to reverse polarity.

There will be a 15 second delay and the cell will come back on. The voltage will be reversed, but all of the readings should be the same.

 

[outdoorsgal]

this is kind of unbelievable. my water looks great but my CC is getting worse by the minute. i can't believe i have to SLAM right now. Is this truly cuz my kid urinated in the pool?! I checked at 5:30pm:

FC 5.5
CC 1
pH 7.5. added another 33 oz acid

checked now at 7:20 and :
FC and it was 9
CC 2.5

something didn't make sense about how the FC could increase unless my measurements are, once, again, wrong one of the times or the salt cell is working now.
So, i remeasured.
FC=11
CC=1.5

Either way, looks like the CC is getting worse. Does this happen? Is this due to children urinating in the pool?

I also have a sock with 20 oz CYA in the skimmer. should i take it out or allow it to continue to dilute? i'm thinking i should SLAM even if the pb is coming tomorrow.

I shouldn't own a pool.