thinking of emptying pool

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proavia said:
Yay on finally getting the CYA to 70 - good job!

pH is rising quicker cause your TA is at 90. Lowering it to 60 in the normal course of adjusting pH will slow the pH rise a bit. If you want to lower it quicker - Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

I'd recommend you do NOT make large adjustments to the SWG - with your schedule and propensity for not testing and dosing often enough, your FC may fall too low. Only adjust in 5% (maybe max 10%) increments. And then only adjust after letting it be for 4-5 days to see how it does. Having the FC a little high isn't going to hurt anything or anybody. FC between minimum and SLAM level for your CYA is perfectly okay to swim in. You don't want to have to SLAM again - certainly not in this heat.

Since you admittedly haven't been keeping up on testing pH and adding acid, you may wish to pop the SWG out and have a look inside. Do NOT clean with MA if it isn't scaled up a lot.

As for the sewer line location - it will be different for even the same exact model house because the connection to the city line at the street is different for each and every lot. Look for any wall cleanouts in the front of the house - that may give you an idea of where to start looking. Do NOT use wall cleanouts for backwashing or draining the pool. There may be issues with the water backing up into the house. The cleanout in the front yard usually connects to a line that is several feet underground - this cleanout is a vertical pipe with a sweep (usually) tied into the main house sewer line. I have 2 in my front yard (had to raise one a few inches to be above the landscape rock) and can pump quite a bit of water down it without issue.
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thx. I didn't measure TA today as I know it's gotta still be high. I did add acid, though, since pH already shot up to 7.8 (I think. It was getting dark and it's hard for me to get a great reading at dark). FC was 9.5 at 5:15pm so pump had been off an hour and 15 min (I made sure to put pump on low to measure).

As far as CH in the cell, I checked it a couple of weeks ago and it was perfectly clean. I have been doing well overall this whole time as far as not letting pH rise above 7.8 accept these 2 times I believe, so I"m assuming it's pretty clean.

Thx for the warning not to backwash down house drain. The city even warns against this. Good to know that the clean out won't be in the same spot at each house. What a hassle.

I've been trying to write this and falling asleep over and over. I'll reread tomorrow and post.thx!
 
i'm so upset with handyman for having messed with my plumbing. tried to backwash today cuz pressure should be at 19 but it's at 25 so I went ahead and backwashed quick. not much pressure coming out of the pipe but I dont' recall that being an issue before. he put 2 90 when before there weren't any 90s. We used to have to make a very sharp U turn with the blue hose that we use to backwash with. I can't understand why the pressure seemed so low today. seemed like a lot of DE came out but it was hard to tell if it was dirty since we aren't used to backwashing with such little pressure. handyman is here and we may ask him to take off the 90s or we may deal with it ourselves. he just pushed them on. we don't have a lot of opportunity to experiment with this stuff since we don't have a great place to backwash and we can't ask pb anything since the equipment was messed with. i don't think pressure changed with backwashing so I'm not sure what's the deal. I'll give more #s and info later but wanted to get this out there while handyman is here in case someone responds. pretty sure we're looking for a new handyman.
 
Take the filter apart and clean it - no need to backwash first. Problem solved.

I'm sure you know that the amount of DE added is different if you only backwash versus a full teardown.

While handyman is there - have him put the backwash pipe back like it was.

PB won't care if you decide to reroute backwash pipe - just don't mess with the other parts of the pool plumbing.
 
proavia said:
Take the filter apart and clean it - no need to backwash first. Problem solved.

I'm sure you know that the amount of DE added is different if you only backwash versus a full teardown.

While handyman is there - have him put the backwash pipe back like it was.

PB won't care if you decide to reroute backwash pipe - just don't mess with the other parts of the pool plumbing.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your prompt reply. I did see this and when handyman was over but it seems each time we ask him for something it takes such a long time I decided to just have him focus on why he came over and I could go to home depot to get a connector to put the backwash pipe back the way it was. I'll try to post a pic to see if anyone else has a set-up like that as I'm still curious as to if it caused a problem or what was going wrong that morning.

As for an update, I've added acid 3 times since the last post on 6-16 and I'm disappointed as TA has increased, not decreased. I did not double check so that could always be an issue, but either way, I'm going to try to add acid daily when it gets to 7.5 instead of waiting to 7.8 which is what I was doing for the most part. I also put the aerator on a couple of days ago to try to help increase pH faster.
FC has maintained between 9-10.5 over the last week and I just lowered the cell to 35%. I have two weeks to get TA down and pool in order as much as possible. On the other hand, when I go on vacay for 3 weeks I'm going to have someone take care of chickens and animals who does not have a pool so I might only ask them to do the minimal like add acid once a week and have it prepoured or not bother having them add acid at all. I worry that they will spill it on the marbella. I'll increase the salt cell before vacay and check salt cell before we go.

Today's #s:
pH 7.5
FC 9
CC 0
88 degrees
TA 90 (was 80 on 6-18)
doesn't seem worth checking anything else since my main goal is to lower TA and I already know CYA is 70.

thx!
 
Gene, Also, no, I didn't realize that I need to add less DE than when it's a full break-down, or if I did I forgot. What I have in my notes is 4.8 lbs for both a backwash and break down. Do you know how much less to add for a backwash only? thx!
 
If I recall - your Hayward DE4820 is:

4.8 for full tear down
3.8 for backwash only

You say you lowered the SWG to 35% - what was it set to previously?

Your TA is creeping back up because your fill water has a high TA and you are adding water daily do to the heat and dry air (lots of evaporation).

If someone will be watching the animals while you're on vacation, pre-measure some acid (make sure it is in the original containers with the label intact) and have them add once or twice a week in your absence. Show them how to do it.
 
proavia said:
If someone will be watching the animals while you're on vacation, pre-measure some acid (make sure it is in the original containers with the label intact) and have them add once or twice a week in your absence. Show them how to do it.
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Addressing your concern about others handling acid in and around your yard and things... I was going to suggest you use the 14% strength acid, or you could dilute your own even more, then have them pour that in. That'd be a little less hazardous and a little more forgiving if there's a spill.

Say you wanted a friend/neighbor to add a quart of the acid you normally use. You fill an empty gallon jug (I really like the idea of using x-acid jugs, for the label), with 3 quarts of water, then top that off with a quart of acid (WATER FIRST! ACID LAST!!). Then in big bold marker you write "MONDAY." Repeat as needed for the other days. Then have them dump in the whole gallon on the corresponding day. They'll be handling 25% strength stuff. Easier on their lungs, and better should they drip. Better for the bottom of your pool, too, if they pour it in too fast. They don't have to mix or measure of even keep track of which day for what. EZPZ.

Leave a box of baking soda handy...
 
proavia said:
If I recall - your Hayward DE4820 is:

4.8 for full tear down
3.8 for backwash only

You say you lowered the SWG to 35% - what was it set to previously?

Your TA is creeping back up because your fill water has a high TA and you are adding water daily do to the heat and dry air (lots of evaporation).

If someone will be watching the animals while you're on vacation, pre-measure some acid (make sure it is in the original containers with the label intact) and have them add once or twice a week in your absence. Show them how to do it.
Click to expand...

u sure have better memory about my pool than I do! :) 3.8 makes more sense for a backwash versus 4.8 for a breakdown. I put that on my pool maintenance word doc that i use each time I need to do something like a backwash so that i'm not forgetting something.

lowered cell from 45 to 35%

-so TA is harder to manage this time of year for everyone, then? Evaporation sure makes a bigger difference than I would've thought!

-We're meeting with the folks who are offering to help out at the house tomorrow so I'll ask if they're ok with pouring acid. I'll take a look at if I've thrown out all of the old bottles otherwise I'd have to pour them into water jugs and put a cross and skullbone on it (they have kids) and write acid on the date they need to add it.
 
Dirk said:
Addressing your concern about others handling acid in and around your yard and things... I was going to suggest you use the 14% strength acid, or you could dilute your own even more, then have them pour that in. That'd be a little less hazardous and a little more forgiving if there's a spill.

Say you wanted a friend/neighbor to add a quart of the acid you normally use. You fill an empty gallon jug (I really like the idea of using x-acid jugs, for the label), with 3 quarts of water, then top that off with a quart of acid (WATER FIRST! ACID LAST!!). Then in big bold marker you write "MONDAY." Repeat as needed for the other days. Then have them dump in the whole gallon on the corresponding day. They'll be handling 25% strength stuff. Easier on their lungs, and better should they drip. Better for the bottom of your pool, too, if they pour it in too fast. They don't have to mix or measure of even keep track of which day for what. EZPZ.

Leave a box of baking soda handy...
Click to expand...

I really like that idea of diluting it so that it's then a full gallon they have to pour and writing the date on it that they need to pour it in the pool!

I've never heard of the baking soda thing. I guess if I thought I got acid on something I'd just rinse it off with water. Is water not good enough? -maybe it depends on how well the marbella is sealed and it's not a topical sealer.
 

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pool gate post is falling down after 3 years of having the pool. chaise lounge that was supposed to last "forever" is now rusting on the marbella. can't backwash in my grass cuz i have a salt pool, which would've been great for the grass and saving water. I have tropical plants around the pool that I wonder how long it'll take before the splashing from the kids will take negative effect.

i wonder if down the road (years down the road due to newly filled pool) i'll consider a chlorine pool. I luv my salt pool and it seems easier to take care of for someone like me who misses a day of checking the pool on a regular basis. I know it's early, but considering these 310 posts I'm curious what other's thoughts might be on if I'd be a good candidate on a saltless pool or if salt is still better for me in the long run. Once the kids r older there'll be less splashing. The fence is meant to be oxidized and I forgot to seal the bottom each year so hopefully I'll also get better at maintaining what will need to be maintained and after vacay I'm going to tear apart front yard looking for clean out otherwise hire a plumber to see if we can find that plastic clean out that might or might not exist.

thx!
 
While washing with water is the go-to move, and can usually solve or at least reduce the affects of a spill, there's a common misconception about doing that. Water doesn't neutralize acid. It dilutes it, and kinda spreads it around, or moves it from one spot to somewhere else, but it doesn't counter the acid's reaction to other materials. It may reduce it, due to that fact that there is less of a concentrated area of contact, but the acid still has all its potential. Baking soda (extremely alkaline) actually neutralizes the acid and stops its ability to eat stuff (I'm simplifying greatly). The rub: people can usually get to a hose faster than they can get to baking soda...

Sealer won't protect your surface from MA...
 
Stick with a salt pool. If you go liquid chlorine only - with your less than optimal testing/dosing - it will be green more than it’s clear.

Again - no need to backwash!!! Just tear the filter apart and clean the grids and interior of the filter. Focus more on getting the pool, filter and pool fence in check before worrying about locating the clean out in the front yard. Digging for that cleanout is a job for the Fall - when it’s cooler out.

Get the filter clean before vacation.
Keep up on testing - especially the pH and TA. P
 
Dirk said:
While washing with water is the go-to move, and can usually solve or at least reduce the affects of a spill, there's a common misconception about doing that. Water doesn't neutralize acid. It dilutes it, and kinda spreads it around, or moves it from one spot to somewhere else, but it doesn't counter the acid's reaction to other materials. It may reduce it, due to that fact that there is less of a concentrated area of contact, but the acid still has all its potential. Baking soda (extremely alkaline) actually neutralizes the acid and stops its ability to eat stuff (I'm simplifying greatly). The rub: people can usually get to a hose faster than they can get to baking soda...

Sealer won't protect your surface from MA...
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that makes a lot of sense. i guess with water i'd be trying to push the acid off of the coping. (all i have it coping so it seems pretty easy to do, but yes, there could be residue...).

- - - Updated - - -

proavia said:
Stick with a salt pool. If you go liquid chlorine only - with your less than optimal testing/dosing - it will be green more than it’s clear.

Again - no need to backwash!!! Just tear the filter apart and clean the grids and interior of the filter. Focus more on getting the pool, filter and pool fence in check before worrying about locating the clean out in the front yard. Digging for that cleanout is a job for the Fall - when it’s cooler out.

Get the filter clean before vacation.
Keep up on testing - especially the pH and TA. P
Click to expand...

ok, so tearing filter apart we'll add 4.8 lbs DE. salt water it is. I do like my salt water pool. :) I wish salt wasn't so harmful to everything though. I backwashed again last week so filter should be good.

Today's #s:
FC 9
CC 0
pH 7.5 so I added 25 oz acid.

Gene, I'm curious, do u mind telling me how it's been for u since you've put new water in your pool? I think u did it around when I did? Did u have your TA on target a mth or so ago and is it staying on target or what are u doing with your pool? I know u check FC, CC and pH daily at least. R u having to chase TA a bit or just able to focus on CSI since you got your TA where it needs to be? Do u notice your TA rising due to evaporation? thx!
 
If you backwashed a little and then added 4.8 pounds of DE, you over-filled the filter with DE. And probably didn't get all the gunk out in the short backwash either.

Salt isn't all that harmful to everything else. Remember, EVERY pool has some salt in it. Before I did my drain/refill, mine was in the 2500-2700 ppm range. Splash out and backwashing my sand filter didn't do any harm to plants, concrete or anything else.

Yes, I think I refilled mine about a month before you did. Initially, I chose to push TA down. I have been seeing the TA creep up just a bit do to fill water. I have a non- SWCG pool and target TA in the 70-90 range. Using Pool Math, I tweak the pH to keep CSI slightly negative (0.0 to -0.30) and don't really worry about chasing TA. Normal acid additions will keep my TA in my chosen range.

With this 110 degree heat and dry air, the evaporation rate is high - maybe 3/4" to 1" per day. Adding fill water with a higher TA than the pool water will cause the TA to creep up. Also, this same fill water is high in CH. The CH will rise faster in a given time period this time of year do to the high evaporation rates.

With the increased need to replenish the water lost to evaporation, it's even more important to stay on top of testing this time of year.

I only test FC and pH once every other day - unless the swimmer load is high or the water just doesn't look right. TA and CH are tested every week or so and CYA once a month. But I know my pool well and know when something isn't right with the water. I got to this point by consistently testing daily for my first year after adopting the TFP method and keeping a written account of test results.
 
Gene, All interesting perspectives, thanks. I have to say that's interesting that your salt got so high after 4 years? Mine was about the same after 3 years in a salt pool. I dont' know a lot about sand filters but u have to backwash, right?

I decided to shut off the bubbler. I'm adding at least 17 oz acid daily. It wasn't 14 hrs and my pH jumped from 7.8-added 25 oz acid to bring it to 7.2 and back to 7.5 this morn.

Last night we also had another issue. My husband is deciding if he wants to keep some kittens that were dropped off to us. My son decided the best way to clean off the wet poop that got on him from holding the cat was to jump into the pool. I checked FC and CC last night 10 min after and 45 min or so after and put salt cell on super chlorinate and checked again this morn. I guess that amount of poop wasn't a big deal and I'm surprised. Today I'm at:

FC 13.5
CC 0
pH7.5

Last night FC was 8.5 and CC 0 so salt cell is working nicely. :)

I thought there was someone here in AZ who only tests once a mth since they got their levels to where they need to be. I couldn't see an end to chasing pH.
 
In respect to my salt level increasing - I use liquid chlorine exclusively. Liquid chlorine (and most forms of solid chlorine too) contain a bit of salt. After a while it adds up. You use a SWG - so you add salt to a specific initially. The SWG does not add any additional salt - you lose a bit to backwashing and splashout.

If someone is testing only once a month, I doubt they truely have a Trouble Free Pool.
 
Gene, That's interesting to note that liquid chlorine has some salt!
I mis-wrote. The person here, well respected, I thought I recalled testing once a week, not once a mth. I could be remembering incorrectly either way!

I found out the person who is going to come to take care of the chickens and such is pregnant and in the end it became clear that her husband is going to be in charge for the most part. He told me he used to be a pool guy. I made it clear that I follow a different method that he is probably used to and a method that the pool store doesn't follow either. I told them to call me if there's a prob with anything or if they have questions. They seemed great as far as wanting to follow instructions but I will likely still go with the safeguards of filling the bottles of acid with water if I acquire more bottles and have him measure otherwise. So far I emptied a bottle of acid today and I bet I'll empty another before July 7, when we leave. I'll prob ask him if he doesn't mind checking the skimmer once a week and I asked if he sees dirt piling up by the filter to brush it in. I want to make it easy on them and less chances for mistakes. I'm already had a flash of something going wrong with salt cell and the gentleman adding chlorine tabs with CYA and having to empty my pool due to high amts of CYA. :drown::hammer:
 
Not just liquid chlorine, solid forms such as trichlor (pucks), dichlor and possibly others too.

As long as the person adding acid knows how to test for pH and you advise how many ounces to add to lower a given amount the pool should be fine. Suggest you check the salt cell condition a day or two before leaving to be sure it has no scale.
 

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