New Construction: Cathedral City CA

[Yorker]

Sometimes I wonder if we will ever get this pool started But each month I do feel closer to being ready

A new thought entered my head. We live in the Palm Springs/ desert area, and our attached 7x7 spa will be at one end of the pool with a spillover. I started thinking about the costs to heat the spa in the cooler months when our evening temps range between 40-60 degrees. We’re retired and hope that we will use the spa on a fairly regular basis, maybe even in the mornings and evenings

I started thinking about the cost involved with the pool and spa being on the same system vs having the spa separated. On the same system I assume that the spa would have to be re-heated many degrees each day.

I know that means loosing the spill over, and adding a water fall feature will add $. But in terms of equipment, does that mean we would have to duplicate all of the equipment?

Any pearls of wisdom you can send my way would be very appreciated.

 

[mknauss]

You have reached the point many of us have regarding spas. If you want a SPA -- then you should get a standalone, covered, SPA. If you have a spa that is integrated with your pool, it much more a water feature than a spa.

Yes - you would need separate equipment for a standalone spa. Many members purchase a spa unit (above ground, integrated pump, heater, filter,etc) and use that. If you really want a SPA, that is the way to go.

We have the integrated type. Rarely use it as a spa.

Take care.

 

[kimkats]

I second what Marty says based on what quite a few members have said as well.

Standalone SPA-covered to save heat and costs
-jets, oh the jets it has=heaven!
-seating, lounging a LOT more comfy

Integrated spa -spill over sounds neat BUT also pushes the PH up

It is up to you. I hope this gives you some things to think about.

Kim

 

[Yorker]

Marty, Kim,

Thanks so much for your replies. We have tried a friends above standalone spa, and wow - what an experience. At that time we did seriously consider shifting in that direction.

We did not look into the added costs of electricity and if gas heating and saltwater was an option

Untimely the cons were:
1) The look of the interior fiberglass (or whatever they are made of). Though some were not so bad.
2) The exterior look. However, we did see samples of some that were installed somewhat sunken next to the pool, surrounded with stone and a sitting ledge that integrated very well with the pools design. Though questioned what appeared to be restricted access to repairs.
3) The added expense. If recall correctly the upfront cost was considerably higher than an in-ground spa.
4) Maintaining two water systems.

While the experience of our friends standalone was incredible, we have also spent many enjoyable hours in in-ground spas. So, now that I am back to considering the annual cost of actual use, I’m wondering if the following might be an option to lower the monthly costs in the cooler months when daytime temps average 70° and evening temps 45°:

— Using the in-ground spa in the morning and evening, set the filter/circulation to happen between midnight and 6am. so the cold pool water was not mixed with warmer spa water.


— For the morning dips: At 6am, heat the spa up to 100° (I imagine the starting temp might be between 50° and 60°).

— Afterwards, cover the spa (not starting the filtration until after midnight). Then around 8pm reheat the spa (maybe the temp might have cooled to 80° and heat it again to 100°).

I found this pool heating calculator on Jandy’s site. (https://www.jandy.com/en/calculators/pool-heater-cost). Now we intend to use Pentair equipment, but imagine the results (if accurate) would be similar.

In the calculation below, it suggests that the cost to heat the body of water by 50° would cost $7.83 a day. Now I wonder how much less the cost would be if we’re only trying to maintain the water temps for 2 or 3 hours.

 

[mknauss]

I can see were you might be able to kind of manage this if during the winter you set up an automation system to manage the spa and pool seperatly.

In other words, you would have to be able to operate the pool system, chlorinate, filter, etc, on a cycle that excludes entirely the spa, and then do the same with the spa at another time. Would be a dance to be sure you get everything chlorinated properly. Also would have to consider water level and if you can keep the water systems separate.

As far as heating, a bubble cover for just the spa will help. Also heating it prior to use at a low enough flow rate to not create many bubbles.

Lots of things to consider. You will want to become VERY familiar with your plumbing, automation, valving, SWCG, etc to make this work.

Take care.

 

[Yorker]

Thanks MK,

Having never had or managed a pool does leaves me at a major disadvantage. I was thinking that running the pump, filter, salt water chlorinator after midnight would be enough to not have to manage the two systems separately. But it sounds like there are system activities that need to happen between 6am and midnight.

I wonder that the cost would be to just heat the spa from 45° to 100° for a single use. Not sure if I can extract that info from the calculator I was using ($8 a day). If the single use heating cost was something like $2, I could live with that.

All this blurs in my head not having experienced a systems daily routine.

I guess for now - Is there something special I need to tell the pool builder that I want/need in relation to the plumbing, in the event I choose to do something like this in the future?

I can see were you might be able to kind of manage this if during the winter you set up an automation system to manage the spa and pool seperatly.

In other words, you would have to be able to operate the pool system, chlorinate, filter, etc, on a cycle that excludes entirely the spa, and then do the same with the spa at another time. Would be a dance to be sure you get everything chlorinated properly. Also would have to consider water level and if you can keep the water systems separate.

As far as heating, a bubble cover for just the spa will help. Also heating it prior to use at a low enough flow rate to not create many bubbles.

Lots of things to consider. You will want to become VERY familiar with your plumbing, automation, valving, SWCG, etc to make this work.

Take care.

 

[mknauss]

From my spa when we heat for single use I would say your $8 to heat from 50F to 100F is about right. Then, if you just put it back into the mix with the pool water, it will cool rapidly to the pool water temperature, and then, the next use, you will heat again for about $8.

To create a scheme to somewhat isolate the two systems, you would need an Automation system, actuated valving, and a SWCG that can be dialed down when in SPA mode. You would also have to test your spa water specifically to test for FC, pH, TA, etc during the months you are handling it separately.

With a Pentair system, you would have an EasyTouch automation, two actuated valves, and an Intellichlor SWCG. It is the setting up of the EasyTouch that would be more extensive than normal.

Take care.

 

[Yorker]

I have a new question, I read somewhere on here a recommendation to ... "Hard plumb the back flow drain into some PVC pipe into the ground out to the curb" or at least that is what my notes show.

Can anyone explain this to me and why it is important?

Thanks!

 

[mknauss]

Depends on what type filter you have. You do not show that -- do you have a sand or DE filter that will need to be backwashed?

 

[Yorker]

Hey Marty!

We hope to start the build next month. We're thinking of either the Pentair 160340, Clean & Clear Plus Pool Filter, 320 Square Feet, 120 GPM or the larger Pentair 160301, Clean & Clear Plus Pool Filter 420 Square Feet, 150 GPM. I think I was told that the larger one would be better.

 

[mknauss]

OK -- those are cartridge filters. They will not have backwash lines.

So no worries there. Good to get started - you want it ready by mid-May to go swimming!

Take care.

 

[Yorker]

Thanks!

 

[Yorker]

Met with the Pool Builder the other day and now the questions start up.

How helpful/necessary is it to have a wired Pentair EasyTouch One indoor Wall Keypad?

Our thoughts are, since our laptops/iPhones are at our side almost 24/7. I’m just not sure how much of a help having an indoor keypad would be, especially with an additional $1,040 cost from the PB.

One thought FOR getting it is - if the internet is down (which in the last year has only happened once or twice and maybe for 15 minutes), then the wired keypad could be used to make changes. Hardly seems worth it if that is the only reason.

Another thought was, since the interior wall where it would go is almost directly behind when the outdoor pool panel will be, I could add it later myself. I re-wired the kitchen in our old house which the permit inspector signed off on, so I’m assuming that this is something I could easily do myself at a later date (if we determine we really need it). It appears the Amazon price is approximately $250, it could be a nice savings.

However, what I don’t know is 1) will an owner installed wall keypad nullify our warranties by Pentair and/or the PB, or 2) If the installation is more complicated than connecting some wires to the right place in the outside panel, will it be too hard to figure out.

 

[mknauss]

I really do not see a need for a wired panel for the ET.

I am still in the dark ages as I go out to the ET panel to make any changes. I have one of the first remotes they had that has 4 buttons.

So having ScreenLogic is all you need.

 

[bdavis466]

There is no need for the keypad with Screenlogic. Even if your home internet is down, your cell service will be able to connect and make changes. Screenlogic does not connect to the panel via wifi so that's a non issue as well.

If all else fails you can always walk out to the panel...

 

[bmoreswim]

If all else fails you can always walk out to the panel...

The horror!

 

[Yorker]

BIG THANKS Marty and Brian!

While I appreciate technology, I too am not one to use it just because it's available, that is unless it makes a big difference. Being reminded that the smart phone does not work off wireless sold me on not getting it. And the fact that I'd have to get off my butt to get to the spa or the pool a 30 second trip to the panel certainly should not be an issue - that is unless I trip on the way

 

[Yorker]

Hey Marty!

We hope to start the build next month. We're thinking of either the Pentair 160340, Clean & Clear Plus Pool Filter, 320 Square Feet, 120 GPM or the larger Pentair 160301, Clean & Clear Plus Pool Filter 420 Square Feet, 150 GPM. I think I was told that the larger one would be better.

Getting back to this question regarding filter size. For a 10-11k pool/spa is there an advantage (and if so what?) to going with the larger 420 filter?

 

[mknauss]

The advantage is you can go longer between cleaning it.

Mine is overkill and I clean it once per year just because I feel like I should. I get 0 pressure rise during that year.

The 320 will provide you with a year between needing to clean the cartridges.

 

[Yorker]

The 320 will provide you with a year between needing to clean the cartridges.

Wow! So the 320 sounds like it is already overkill.

Just so I understand what determines the desired pump size. I thought is was basically determined by the surface SF. I was estimating our pool to be:
9'x30'=270sf POOL
7'x7'=49sf SPA
= 319sf - which seems that it is sized properly, and not overkill.

Of course what do I know? That's why I'm here