New Construction: Cathedral City CA

Jump to latest Follow Reply
My understanding to size the filter using a cartridge filter is 100 sq ft per 10000 gallons. But that assumes you will clean your filter at least twice per year.

Bigger is better. But the 420 has very large cartridges, so a DIY clean can be a bit of a work out.

Take care.
 
Get one of these. I have it and it is awesome!

Amazon.com : Filter Flosser-The Most Powerful Filter Cleaning Tool : Swimming Pool Cartridge Filters : Garden Outdoor

31M0%2BUN3FGL.jpg
 
Congrat's on the new pool, and for finding TFP ahead of time, and especially on deciding to take care of the pool yourself. Stay away from Leslie's. Period. Get the test kit, test your fill water, or any water, even a neighbor's pool water, until you get comfortable with the kit. It won't take long, then you'll be ready when it's go time. Even your "novice" numbers will be more reliable than anyone else's, including Leslie's.

GET A CONTRACT (not just a proposal). Make sure PB is licensed, bonded AND insured. Check the Contractor's Board for any news about the PB. Get referrals. Go see his pools. Don't worry about being "that guy." Who cares. Your PB will be gone after day 1 of your pool. You'll have to live with whatever he leaves you with forever (or for as long as you live there). Would you rather be a stickler before the build, or a disgruntled pool owner after? Or worse, have to live with something for decades because you were "shy" about getting it done right. Now's the time.

Run everything by these guys here, just as you are doing. Study up on the care of a new pool during the first 30 days. You'll need a good brush. Be sure all the return and vacuum ports are sealed up tight for the initial fill. A dripping one can cause a permanent stain on new plaster.

Some things that I did for my pool, that you might want to consider or ask here about:

I deleted my existing drains. That's becoming more commonplace. They're not really needed, and your pool will look better and be safer, and they won't snag brushes and vacuums or toes. Talk to your PBs about it. If you go this route, they might need to modify the return system, so that the pool circulates properly without drains.

I filled my pool with a water meter inline on the fill hose. I was able to determine, almost to the gallon, how much water my pool holds. Super handy for future water maintenance. I can give you the details if this idea is of interest.

Are you getting an autofill system? I love mine.

Consider supplying the fill system with soft water. I did so on mine. Helps to maintain CH levels if your fill water is high in calcium (another reason to get your kit and test your fill water). If you know ahead of time that your supply water is high in calcium and minerals, filling with soft water might be something to think about. (I don't mean the initial fill, can't be done with a softener, I'm talking about the auto fill system, for subsequent water "top off.")

Be sure the PB installs a proper back flow preventer. I write about that elsewhere. My fill system allows the source to be city water or soft water, so I have the best of both, whenever I need.

Fill water, back flow valves, etc should all be at or near the pad if possible. Handy. Auto fill system should have its own, dedicated shut off valve, in case it goes bad.

I wish my PB had done a better job with my Pentair controller. I have one, but I also have a separate breaker box and a separate box for the SWG's transformer. If I'm not mistaken, that can all be installed in one nice, neat Pentair controller box, if the right part is ordered up front. Something to ask PB about.

I had a flowmeter installed at the pad. Handy. I use it to monitor how the water is moving, not only for general circulation, but also for my solar system, which requires a different flow than my filter does.

Speaking of which, are you going to heat your pool? I installed a roof-top Helicol solar system. It's great. And free to run. I also have a gas heater, but never use it (way to expensive). During swim season, I can get my pool up to 95+ if I want (so my daughter will get in!), but it doesn't do squat in the winter. My pool is just a tad too cold in the summer without it, but I'm glad I don't have to use gas to bump it up the few degrees it needs. Solar does the job.

I also installed a PV solar system, which takes care of the extra cost of running a pool. Both solar systems will pay for themselves in short order. Pools use A LOT of electricity. Consider PV solar to offset.

I see you've opted for ScreenLogic. Cool. I have one. Works OK. But I also added a Pentair Indoor Control Panel. It hardwires to the controller, and allows you to do anything you can do at the controller from inside the house (ScreenLogic does not, not by a long shot). I actually use the Indoor Control Panel every day, and way more than I use ScreenLogic. It's also way faster, nothing to load up, no waiting, etc, the Control Panel is right there on the wall, right where I can see it, giving me instant access to everything, including pool temp, air temp, etc. Push button pump control, light control, everything. It's nice to have both.

As an extra step, I hardwired my Indoor Control Panel and my ScreenLogic interface unit, instead of using the Pentair wireless setup. I don't have any direct evidence that hardwired works better than wireless for Pentair gear, but I know for sure hardwiring ethernet works better than WiFi, so I applied that logic to my Pentair gear.

Be sure the PB does not use any of those PVC valves anywhere (like with the quarter-turn black or red handle). They're junk, and won't last.

I don't see a cleaner system in your list. I have a suction-side system. I would not want to own a pool without some sort of auto cleaning system.

If any of these ideas intrigue, feel free to ask about 'em. I'll give you what details I know, then you can double-check 'em with the others here.

Please do consider joining TFP. It's the best money you'll ever spend, and your contribution will pay for itself many times over...

Have fun with the build!
 
Hi Dirk!

Thanks for all that input. I don't have much time to respond or start asking questions right now - oh but I will!

I did join last April, and will contribute again this year. This site is incredible, get information and incredible people.

I'll get back at ya with questions, but just a quick thank you for now.
 
Yorker said:
Met with the Pool Builder the other day and now the questions start up.

How helpful/necessary is it to have a wired Pentair EasyTouch One indoor Wall Keypad?

Our thoughts are, since our laptops/iPhones are at our side almost 24/7. I’m just not sure how much of a help having an indoor keypad would be, especially with an additional $1,040 cost from the PB.

One thought FOR getting it is - if the internet is down (which in the last year has only happened once or twice and maybe for 15 minutes), then the wired keypad could be used to make changes. Hardly seems worth it if that is the only reason.

Another thought was, since the interior wall where it would go is almost directly behind when the outdoor pool panel will be, I could add it later myself. I re-wired the kitchen in our old house which the permit inspector signed off on, so I’m assuming that this is something I could easily do myself at a later date (if we determine we really need it). It appears the Amazon price is approximately $250, it could be a nice savings.

However, what I don’t know is 1) will an owner installed wall keypad nullify our warranties by Pentair and/or the PB, or 2) If the installation is more complicated than connecting some wires to the right place in the outside panel, will it be too hard to figure out.
Click to expand...

I just spotted this post after I wrote my other one, regarding the Indoor Controller. I disagree with the consensus. Here's some more details.

A local pool co sold me my Indoor Controller for about $150. I installed it myself. It hardwires into the EasyTouch, simple. Very easy to do. Well within your skill set from the sound of it. It's just four wires, color coded. Instructions are online and in the EasyTouch manual. Before I did so, I called Pentair and specifically asked them if I would compromise my warranty by doing the install myself. They said no, so I did. Now, what one of their techs said on the phone, vs what will go down if something blows up will remain to be seen. Your mileage may vary. But, IMO, there is no need to pay $1000+ for this add on.

As I mentioned, ScreenLogic, in any of the forms I use (iPhone, iPad or Mac computer), cannot perform anywhere near what the Controller can (now, I've never seen the Windows interface, so guys, correct me if I'm wrong in that regard). The Indoor Controller basically mirrors what you can do in front of the EasyTouch, 100%. ScreenLogic does not, not even close. The ScreenLogic interface can be simpler to use, for what it can do, but it can't control everything that your EasyTouch is capable of.

And the Indoor Controller doesn't have to "load" or "sign on". It's right there on the wall, instant, ready to go. You don't have to fish out your phone and open an app. I press a button for the light. I press a button for the filter pump, or for the cleaner to come on. I get a nice, bright green LED telling me what the pool is doing. I get water and air temp with just a glance at the unit's screen (again, nothing to pickup and load or startup). It's right there, on my wall, in a very convenient spot in my house. I use the Controller waaaay more than I use ScreenLogic, like several times a day. ScreenLogic, maybe every few days or so, if that.

It doesn't get rained on, it's not where it's cold or windy. And it's hardwired, so there is no WiFi, or cell, or wireless or batteries, etc. It just works.

The only downside, is that it's attached to the wall. It's not mobile. So I actually have both, ScreenLogic and the Controller, and wouldn't want to give up either, or choose one over the other.

It's a great convenience, and worth the money (the $150, even the $250, but not the $1000!).

Don't get me started on what PBs get away with charging for Pentair hardware and installation... And Pentair's warranty system is at the heart of that sham... Uhg.

My vote: get both, you won't be sorry...
 
You are mistaken if you haven't used ScreenLogic Configuration on a computer. It makes any programming at the panel completely obsolete and is so easy to setup and make changes that a completely untrained user could do it.

The Pentair remote and indoor panel are terribly outdated and completely unnecessary with ScreenLogic. No need to spend money on old technology especially when you already have something that far exceeds their offerings.

If you want something mobile and don't want to use your own phone then you can use an old cell phone (even with no data service) hooked to your home's WiFi as a "remote" that guests can use. The interface is much easier for untrained users and you really aren't losing anything if it gets damaged.

The Pentair remote is about $500!
 
bdavis466 said:
You are mistaken if you haven't used ScreenLogic Configuration on a computer. It makes any programming at the panel completely obsolete and is so easy to setup and make changes that a completely untrained user could do it.

The Pentair remote and indoor panel are terribly outdated and completely unnecessary with ScreenLogic. No need to spend money on old technology especially when you already have something that far exceeds their offerings.

If you want something mobile and don't want to use your own phone then you can use an old cell phone (even with no data service) hooked to your home's WiFi as a "remote" that guests can use. The interface is much easier for untrained users and you really aren't losing anything if it gets damaged.

The Pentair remote is about $500!
Click to expand...

That has not been my experience, and maybe it's just my experience. I think we can both agree that the computer interface far exceeds the iPhone interface (and the iPad interface is a bad joke). Yes?

My computer ScreenLogic (on a Macintosh), takes forever to load, and often fails the first time. It opens to a "sub program" from which I then have to load a configure app or the main app. This all "works", yes, but it's downright awful programming, very kludgy and inconvenient. I can get to my Indoor Panel and make changes faster than I can get ScreenLogic to even load.

OK, that aside, I agree that for what ScreenLogic can do, it's a nicer interface than the tiny little screen on the Indoor Control, no contest, but my ScreenLogic is missing things that the Indoor Control can do.

Maybe I need to take another look at both. Or maybe look at the Windows version, because the MacOS and iOS interfaces are very weak.

I should also admit that ScreenLogic's graphs are very nice to have (even if their color schemes are all different from device to device, and not very good on any of them).

I also have trouble getting settings to "stick." Often I have to program things multiple times using ScreenLogic. I've had entire schedules vanish on me. Etc. I just don't like ScreenLogic, because, as a software programmer and interface designer, I have a real problem with it, especially since it could be so much more than it is.

All that said, I still stand by the convenience factor of my Indoor Controller. It just works better for me, for what I need on a daily basis, than ScreenLogic does.

But fair is fair, I should at least temper this opinion until I can somehow use the Window's version. Thanks for your input...

By the way, this is the unit I've been writing about, in case we're not talking about the same thing. It's $250 on Amazon, and $225 elsewhere. I bought mine from a Pentair dealer for $150:

Amazon.com: Pentair 520548 EasyTouch Indoor Control Panel for 4 Circuit Systems: Garden Outdoor
 
Mornin" and thanks to Dirk and Brian.

I'm still absorbing the information. I find that I need to focus my attention on one thing at a time (my internal hard drive get full REALLY fast:). For now, and it may change, I will not have the PB install the wall unit. And since Brian self-installed his, I can wait and see first hand what the mobile/computer vs the panels interface is like (there seems to be a difference of opinion here).

Brian, you mentioned taking advantage of an old phone as an added "remote". We actually have an old never used (un-opened box) iphone 4. many years ago AT&T sent us 5 phones over a week, when we only ordered and were charged for 2. Returning the delivery of the third took me an hour on the phone to straighten out, on;y to be sent a 4th phone two days later. Returning that 4th phone was a even bigger nightmare. When the 5th phone arrived I thought WT?, I'll just wait to see if they charge us then return the unopened box. It's been over 3 years now and have not been an AT&T customer for any type of service. I'm now might consider to crack open that box, and charge it up.

However, I am confused though exactly how the phone will connect to the panel through the WiFi. Brian can you elaborate on how this is done - do I need to download an app? if so, how do I do that if the phone has no data plan?
 
Dirk said:
That has not been my experience, and maybe it's just my experience. I think we can both agree that the computer interface far exceeds the iPhone interface (and the iPad interface is a bad joke). Yes?

My computer ScreenLogic (on a Macintosh), takes forever to load, and often fails the first time. It opens to a "sub program" from which I then have to load a configure app or the main app. This all "works", yes, but it's downright awful programming, very kludgy and inconvenient. I can get to my Indoor Panel and make changes faster than I can get ScreenLogic to even load.

OK, that aside, I agree that for what ScreenLogic can do, it's a nicer interface than the tiny little screen on the Indoor Control, no contest, but my ScreenLogic is missing things that the Indoor Control can do.

Maybe I need to take another look at both. Or maybe look at the Windows version, because the MacOS and iOS interfaces are very weak.

I should also admit that ScreenLogic's graphs are very nice to have (even if their color schemes are all different from device to device, and not very good on any of them).

I also have trouble getting settings to "stick." Often I have to program things multiple times using ScreenLogic. I've had entire schedules vanish on me. Etc. I just don't like ScreenLogic, because, as a software programmer and interface designer, I have a real problem with it, especially since it could be so much more than it is.

All that said, I still stand by the convenience factor of my Indoor Controller. It just works better for me, for what I need on a daily basis, than ScreenLogic does.

But fair is fair, I should at least temper this opinion until I can somehow use the Window's version. Thanks for your input...

By the way, this is the unit I've been writing about, in case we're not talking about the same thing. It's $250 on Amazon, and $225 elsewhere. I bought mine from a Pentair dealer for $150:

Amazon.com: Pentair 520548 EasyTouch Indoor Control Panel for 4 Circuit Systems: Garden Outdoor
Click to expand...

Jandy is similar. UX has not been introduced into this market I guess since it is still too new. It seems they allow the engineers too much say in how the app will appear functionally (they should have NO say) and probably "it works on my system" is an acceptable answer to whomever is in charge of software development. It is too bad they are losing people to these poorly designed interfaces.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
how do I do that if the phone has no data plan?
Click to expand...

You do not need a data plan to connect the phone to your Wi-Fi. I have an old iPhone5 we use for internet XM, etc.

You will have to set it up with your Apple ID, etc. Use an email address.

Good luck.
 
There's a little hardware interface unit that comes with ScreenLogic (it's not just software). The interface connects to your router with an ethernet cable, and then to your EasyTouch (either through a Pentair wireless add-on gizmo, or with a four-conductor wire). I believe ScreenLogic is sold with and without that wireless add-on. The four-conductor wire can also be used for the Indoor Control Panel. The Indoor Panel, the Pentair wireless gizmo, and/or the ScreenLogic interface all connect to the same four-conductor jack within the EashTouch. It's all pretty simple. It's also the same interface that connects to other Pentair equipment, like a Pentair pump. The challenge can be how many devices you have connected to the same four-conductor connector within the EasyTouch. Pentair sells a kit that adds a second four-conductor connector within the EasyTouch, to accommodate more gizmos. There's probably a limit, but I'm not sure what that is. I actually hardwired my Indoor Control Panel directly to the ScreenLogic interface's connector, then hardwired that to the EasyTouch. It was the easier route, and solved for me trying to cram too many wires into the EasyTouch connector. I ditched the wireless gizmo, in favor of 100% hardwiring.

Then you load a free app on your phone (and/or extra phone, or iPad, or computer or all of the above) and the app(s) "talk" to the EasyTouch through your router via the ScreenLogic hardware interface: App(s)* > Device (computer or phone) > WiFi/ethernet > Router > ScreenLogic Interface Unit > EasyTouch > Pentair gear (pumps, lights, etc).

* There are actually two, separate iPhone apps, one to configure things, and another to run things. Same on a Mac, though it's even uglier, as you open a third app, that then launches either the config app or the control app. It's all a mess that Pentair can't seem to figure out (See PoolGate's comments about Pentair engineers.) But I digress.

And, yes, you can run iPhones without a cell plan, no problem. I repurpose all my old phones in this same way. They work great. You just have to use them within range of your WiFi router.

I think your plan to try ScreenLogic first to see if it does all that you need before you look into the Indoor Control Panel is a solid plan. Baby steps. Don't buy more than you need. Don't make things more complicated than you need. If only I could follow my own advice!! ;)
 
[[Speaking of which, are you going to heat your pool? I installed a roof-top Helicol solar system. It's great. And free to run. I also have a gas heater, but never use it (way to expensive). … Solar does the job.]]

Hey Dirk - I was surprised to hear that the vast majority of people we know here in the desert do not heat or use their pool for 6 or more months a year because the gas heating costs, and complain about their pools getting too hot in the summer.

This is our first pool and just not sure how much we will use it year round, but we did meet a couple who love their thermal solar heating which was done by Helicol. We are considering adding it, but again, before putting out the 4-5k we thought we would wait a year or two and see how we use the pool, as well as the cost is to gas heat it for a weekend in the colder months when we have guests (considering it’s only 10k gallons).

We’re considering having our PB run the underground pipes from the pad to the pergola which will be on a cement slab they will be installing and where the panels would be installed at some point in the future. The PB is quoting about $500 to run the pipes. Seems high since for the most part the most of trench will already dug for the pool. The jury is still out.
 
I would run the pipes. And I would do so myself and save some money. It's a pretty simple task, if you're up for it. Otherwise, $500 might be a tad high, but not too bad, especially considering the alternative, which would not be pretty with a slab in place. Some things to think about:

Is this pergola big enough to support the number and weight of panels you'll need? If not, where are the rest of the panels going to live? And how and where are they going to tie in to each other?

Determine ahead of time the size of the pipe needed. It's based on the number of panels. Heliocol panels (mine, anyway) are built with 1.5" PVC headers. But I ran 2" PVC between them and the pad. You might need an even bigger pipe if the run is long enough or the number of panels exceeds what 2" can deliver.

There was a debate elsewhere in a thread here about the affect different types of PVC elbows have on water flow: whether regular 90° elbows provided significantly less flow than sweep 90° elbows, or two 45° elbows. There doesn't seem to be a lot of difference, but personally I would use sweep 90s wherever I could. Can't hurt, and might help. It's easy to inadvertently use the wrong type of sweep 90. It's generally not what is found at a big box store. Those are usually for drains and waste water. You need a Schedule 40 elbow, which can be found online, typically at a pool supply store.

Don't forget to run a wire for a temperature sender. The solar controller needs to know the temperature of the water and the temperature of the panels. The water temp it can get from a sensor punched through a pipe at the pad. And technically the panel temp sensor could be somewhere other than near the panels, but the preferred location of the panel sensor is right on top of the panels (or right next to them). So you'll need a two conductor wire run from the controller (or where it's going to be) to where the panels will live on the pergola. One, uninterrupted length is best, leave a bunch of slack at each end to accommodate unforeseen alterations. My pool controller provides air temp along with water and panel temp. Where that air temp sensor lives is critical to how well it works. If that location is the pergola, then run a second two-conductor wire (or one four-conductor wire). I would run four anyway, just to have it there.

Speaking of which: as I've recommend to others, think through what else might be nice to have at that pergola while the trenches are open: water for sinks or hose bibs, electrical for lighting, fans, misters or outlets (maybe multiple circuits), ethernet wire for all kinds of things (ethernet, comms, video, TV, etc) and speaker wire for entertainment. Maybe even a gas line for the BBQ. Now's the time...

I've read or seen somewhere the potential of a solar system to cool a pool, by running it at night. I don't have much facts to go on, but it does sound plausible: if the night air temp is lower than pool temp, then pushing water through the panels at night should cool the water in the same way it can heat water during the day, it's all just heat exchange. I'm not sure if there is a solar controller than can do this trick... something to google and look into. If this can be done, that might be extra justification for the system expense: if it can make the pool more comfortable in both the cooler months and the hotter months.

My system has both a gas heater and a solar heater, so you can have both. I don't run my gas heater though. I think you might be surprised what it's going to cost you to heat a pool for a weekend. There is math that can be done to give you a ball park (number of gallons x amount of gas needed to raise the water to desired temp x cost of gas). Another google task.

Also, plan on where the drain valves are going to be (you might need to drain the water out of your solar system if the air temp get's cold enough). My system includes a flow meter so I can dial in the water flow that optimizes the panels' effectiveness. That can be at the pad.

And lastly (or firstly), I would continue to poll what locals I could find (maybe through forums?) about their experience with solar in your area. Make sure this is all going to be worth the effort.
 
mknauss said:
Order your test kit way early. TFTestkits.net
Good luck!
Click to expand...

Hey MK,
The pool STILL has not started, but contract should be signed this week. When to order the testing kit but more questions came up with the options they offer with the TF-100. Since we will have a saltwater system which of the 7 options do we really need to add?

I recall you suggested the stirrer - is there something magical about it? What does it do that a spoon can't do:)?

TF-100 Salt Test Kit (Add $19.00 )

Speedstir Magnetic Stirrer (Add $35.00 )
Borates Test Strips (Add $9.95 )
Salt Test Strips - Aqua Chek (Add $11.95 )
Taylor K-1766 Salt Test (Add $27.00 )
XL Option (Add $20.00 )
Standard Sampler (Add $16.00 )


Thanks,
York
 
The SpeedStir is a must. Patting my head and rubbing my stomach at the same time makes me dizzy so swirling and dropping at the same time makes me crazy. The SpeedStir solves that!

Other items are up to you. I have never bothered with a salt test as we never have a pool that overflows. When I add my salt it stays essentially the same until I drain the pool and start over. The salt does not leave the pool due to evaporation, which is essentially the only reason we have to add water to our pools.

You do not need the XL option. What comes in the kit will get you through one season. Buy new reagents every spring.

Some love the sample sizer. I just don't think you have to have that kind of accuracy. Depends on how precise you want to be.

Are you getting a robot? If not, get the Whale Tail brush. The thing is magic at brushing the walls.

Take care
 
SpeedStir is a must. It's one of those things you might be tempted to try without. Some of these tests require 20 drops or more to run... drop, stop, stir, drop, stop, stir, drop, stop, stir (only 17 more to go). It gets old really fast. Then you give in and try the Stirrer, after one time you'll go "Oh, I get it. Why didn't someone... oh, they did!" The testing goes sooooo much faster and easier with the Stirrer. Drop, drop, drop... done.

It also has a very handy light that helps with filling the test water to the correct line on the vial (which are hard to see, otherwise), and the light helps significantly when judging the color changes.
 
mknauss said:
Other items are up to you. I have never bothered with a salt test as we never have a pool that overflows. When I add my salt it stays essentially the same until I drain the pool and start over. The salt does not leave the pool due to evaporation, which is essentially the only reason we have to add water to our pools.
Click to expand...

Marty, I want to pick you brain on this as I don't know much about salt and such as I don't have a SWG yet (one day!!!). What about if your salt is too high? With their size pool I would think it would be a good idea to have some kind of salt test. I know chlorine adds some salt as well as the salt you add to get the SWG going. Like you say evaporation does not remove salt so..................I am guessing salt can get "too high". What happens then?

Kim:kim:
 
It takes a lot for salt to get too high. The Pentair SWCG will operate in quite high salt contents. The High Salt indicator comes on at about 4500 ppm, but it is still generating chlorine.

High salt will not happen with the bit of acid or liquid chlorine added. I start at about 3100 ppm after a refill. In ~18 months when I drain for CH buildup I have about, 3100 ppm. Now, those numbers are from the SWCG. And the initial number equates to the amount of salt added as a check. But as we have essentially zero loss from the pool excluding evaporation, I know closely the amount of salt added to the system.

I had a flow switch on the IC40 go bad last year. The sign was a reading of Low Salt on the unit. I knew that was impossible. So a quick check and learned that Low Salt falsely shown is due to the temperature sensor in the switch failing. Called Pentair, they sent me one under warranty, and I installed it.

Hope that helps.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply