Serious help needed

Test result at 845 AM CST July 18th

FC 14.5

Deep end visibilty improving can see down along the sides where the walls meet the bottom. Also noticed what appears to be more debris in the shallow to midlevel area(s) where the slope occurs. I will hold off on vacuuming per Swampwoman's suggestions....
 
Philo

Richard has a vinyl liner and as such, even if his water table was low enough that he could empty his pool without floating or caving it in, a complete drain is very risky. The first problem with vinyl liner is if you drain to less than 1' in shallow end you run the significant risk of getting wrinkles that will not come out. The second is an old liner could shrink and crack. Water replacement could have been done using the "Sheet method" or "Tarp Method" but that would not get the stuff out that he is working on, so in the long run not sure it would have helped much. This surely is a difficult case, but a very interesting one from which we all can learn, or at least me.

I see your point but with a mess like Richard had, I'd risk the liner issues.

Psychologically, that water may never be "fine".
 
Stabilizer added to bring up my CYA. One of our posters suggested Walmart for the stabilizer. I found Clorox brand CYA at that store.Two points. First, it was much cheaper than Leslies. Secondly, it dissolved a heck of a lot faster than Leslies house brand.

Call me crazy but the water looks clear/clean albeit green? Many times, I remarked to myself that the water seems to glisten, but its green??:confused:

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Richard I’ve been following along. I am impressed with you following SW directions. She won’t stear you wrong. Only thing is go down to Walmart and pick up some stabilizer

Good call on Walmart...their CYA was much cheaper than Leslies brand, and dissolved much faster! Walmart stocked Clorox brand of CYA, $12.77 for 4 lbs. Good tip, thanks!
 
Call me crazy but the water looks clear/clean albeit green? Many times, I remarked to myself that the water seems to glisten, but its green??:confused:

Metals can cause water to turn colors, the clarity is still crystal clear so you won't see haziness, but the color is present. As your water becomes less hazy, you may notice a color tint. We can help you address the metals when your SLAM is over. One step at a time.
 
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Philo
As long as the person would be prepared to have a new liner installed, it would not be bad tactic, Richard may even be close to that. But they are pretty expensive to have put in, I tried to help someone do a DIY, years ago and he ended up getting a professional because he could not get wrinkles out. Cost gets much higher but I know from that I would not do it without seeing it done, I never got to see it I was just helping for a day.

I think with constant wetting you might have a fair chance at not cracking, but wrinkles are more like how much not if, and they cause problems as well.

Richard,
Good to here it is clearing and consumption of chlorine decreasing, The green could be metals but Swampwoman has already been looking for that. Maybe it is finally turning around.
 
Luckily we are dealing with chemistry and not psychotherapy. The SLAM process has worked for thousands if not tens of thousands of pools.

You can't deal with both chemistry and psychology. Too complicated.

What they don't know won't hurt them. That's my motto also.


P.S.
Would you bet your health that Chlorine has the capability to kill every type of pathogen that could have grown in that petri dish?
 
There are a few shades of greens and blues you'll see. I was in the same position not that long ago. Keep on it!!

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Test results at 530AM CST July 19th

FC 18 **
CC1.0


I see an amount of silt/discoloration in the exact area as before in the shallow end. Although the concentration of the material is far less than before it is there. So, the question becomes why there? Is that a low point in the shallow end where material settles? Inquiring minds want to know! :cool:

What say you?

** close to passing the overnight test, but not quite theere yet. Last night, I took 3 tests at the same time, and got 3 slightly different results ranging from 18 to 19.5. Also, I notice that if the solution sits unstirred it slowly turns red after the drops are instilled.


Swampwoman, I'm letting things settle...yes?:)

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There are a few shades of greens and blues you'll see. I was in the same position not that long ago. Keep on it!!

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Thank you for your support!
 
Here is a post that was recently brought to my attention, It was posted by Chem Geek who really has a lot of knowledge. It addresses error in testing especially at higher levels and especially if we are using 10 ml sample instead of 25.

[h=2]Re: Numbers ok but water has a hint of cloudiness[/h]

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Catanzaro
Is there a testing error when the FC becomes that high with the TF-100? I believe in the past I read the higher you go on the ladder, the probability of testing error increases. With that being said (if accurate), does it make sense to allow the FC to drop to around 10 and then perform the OCLT test? Please see comment below as I would like understand this better. For me, luckily I found TFP early enough and have never had any issues with passing the overnight test.



The official accuracy for the Taylor tests, and the TF-100 is based on Taylor reagents, is +/- 1 drop or 10% of the reading whichever is greater. This is for absolute accuracy. The OCLT is more about relative accuracy since one uses the same reagents for measurements at night and in the morning. So it's more about how accurately you can measure the sample size and create consistent drop sizes. You might be able to do better than 10%, but probably not better than 5%. With a 33 ppm FC and a 5% error that would be 1.65 ppm FC error. For sample size, 5% of 10 ml is 0.5 ml which is half way between two lines on the tube when measuring the meniscus. It would be hard to do any better than that. Also, when squeezing the FAS-DPD drops, one would need to create drops that are consistent (on average) within 5%. Actually, both of these would need to be better than 5% for their combined error to be less than 5%.

So you can see that having a 1 ppm FC criteria for OCLT at high FC levels doesn't make sense. This is why it should never be done with a high yellow/mustard algae SLAM and for a regular SLAM it is a questionable criteria when the CYA is higher since the FC would then be higher. If you are very careful with measurements, then at a 33 ppm FC I'd call a 2 ppm FC or lower drop "good" for passing the OCLT, especially if one is bouncing around this sometimes lower or no loss or even gaining in FC (indicative of the limits of testing). If one wants further verification assuming other SLAM criteria are met, then lowering the FC to more normal levels closer to 10 ppm FC (or certainly not higher than 20 ppm) would be reasonable.

Algae should not come back at a half-SLAM level. The worst that could happen is that you find there's still a chlorine demand that has not been exhausted and you need to go back up to try and finish it off.


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Originally Posted by Crackerjack4u
I read a really good article on here the other day that I'll try to relocate for you, if I can, that explains that even with the margin of error at the higher shock levels, if the Slam is complete, the overnight FC loss will be 1.0ppm or less, regardless of the FC level the OCLT is being checked at.



Where did you read that? It's true you don't want to end a SLAM prematurely, but if the other criteria are met with no visible algae and minimal CC then if the FC drop is low but not meeting the OCLT criteria but within test error, then it should be safe to lower the FC and for reassurance redo the OCLT at a lower FC, particularly if we are talking about SLAM FC levels of 33 ppm as in this case.

It is also not true that the actual (i.e. no measurement error) loss will always be 1 ppm or less regardless of FC level. That is only roughly true for the same FC/CYA ratio, but at a given CYA if you increase the FC level it's overnight loss will increase if for no other reason that the chlorine will oxidize the CYA faster even if there were nothing else in the pool to oxidize. This is again why one should not have a 1 ppm criteria for the yellow/mustard algae SLAM level, for example, since that is 2.3 times higher in active chlorine level and can push chlorine loss from oxidation of CYA to at least 2 ppm over 12 hours or 1.3 over 8 hours.​
 
Test at 730AM CST July 19th

FC 15

added


A few interesting points. When I first approached the pool this morning, I said to myself "my gosh, the water is crystal clear, but green. It looks clean and almost sparkly....Clarity was much improved over yesterday. I can clearly see what is in the bottom of the shallow end...there are spots of small to slight concentrations of 'silt/dirt/debris". These areas are chiefly the main culprit area, but much smaller than before, and very small and sporadic spots in maybe a half dozen or so places on the shallow end floor.

It also appears that the "slope" to the deep end (this is the start of the mid level area) may have drifts of this stuff. It is, of course harder to see this area. The deep end is clearer, as well. One can strain and see the bottom of that area, and it appears there may be silt/dirt drifts there, as well. Hopefully, clarity will improve there over the next couple of days to "tell the tale".

My FC readings indicate that contamination still exists, and this is borne out by the aforeststed visual observations. I am hoping that clarity will continue to increase so that vacuuming may be accomplished via Swampwoman's plan. I am holding off on vacuuming until I hear from Swampwoman.:kim:
 
I'm sorry, I am embarrased to say that my cell fell into the water last evening, and I am waiting for a replacement.:(

That sucks and is a fear of mine... i lost my phone this weekend and had a hard time finding it, it fell out of my pocket into the flower bed next to the pool. I hope you get your replacement phone soon.

The silt/dead algae areas are just how the debris settles because of the water currents. Once a little bit settles it tends to attract more and the area of accumulation grows.

FYI, crystal clear water on this forum means you can see the screws on the main drain cover and can tell if they are phillips head or straight.
 

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