So I've got my new build complete and filled. I have all levels in an acceptable range. I'm going slow at establishing my CYA count to be safe. While playing with the pool math app I noticed that the less CYA is less FC needed. The higher CYA count needs a higher FC. My question is why wouldn't I want a lower number CYA and use less chlorine?

Hello all, hope all is well and all that!

I have a gunite pool that was constructed in the late 1950s. It used to be an indoor pool as well (prior to my owning the house). Over the years ive learned a lot about proper pool care (meaning i wasnt as diligent as I am now about keeping things clean). With that said, the main drain isjust a big open hole with a cap about 1/4 above it to stop big debris from falling in. Im afraid at this point there is a pretty good blockage in there of sticks/dirt/leaves/anything else that could have gotten in there. I have tried air and a bladder from the other side, and used the pump to try and rock the water back and forth each way. Nobody in my area seems to service plumbing on gunite pools, let alone ones that are this old (over 2 years i cannot even get a quote.) The best advice I have been given is to have a scuba guy come in and seal it off completely.

at this point, I am looking for some further advice... Does this make sense? If so is there anything else i should consider? Its about 25k gallons and currently am using a 1hp pump and sand filter. (not sure any of that matters just adding any extra info that could be helpful)

thanks in advance for anything you have to offer

Well some black algae has reared its head again. In addition to the stainless bristle brush I have I want to try directly scrubbing a chlorine puck on the affected areas.

Is there a particular holder that’s recommended? Looking around online I’ve just seen plastic holders that appear pretty flimsy.

Hello,

I have read on here that you should not have salt cell on while the pump is off. Is that as simple as setting a schedule for the salt cell that aligns with the schedule for the pump? I didn't build this pool so I'm learning on the fly.

When I click on the Hayward Omnilogic Salt cell information, I see "SC" which I understand to be "Super Chlorinate". When I click that, it always says "24 hrs." Is this normal? I am hoping that it is not running 24 hours.

Please forgive my ignorance.

Hello, TFPers. Long time, no post. Yesterday I ran into a situation and I wanted to run it by a few of you folks that understand this deep-end chemical stuff better than this amateur.

I was late opening the pool this year and had to SLAM it to deal with the algae. All was looking great recently. The water was crystal clear and looked great. Turned the heater on and brought the temperature up to wifey-warm-enough. This weekend was the final vacuum-to-waste to clear the dead algae collected on the bottom.

Friday's test results:



The test results above were in line with the results of my TF-100 test kit.

Following the vacuuming, I added a 22 kg bag of salt, a bottle of instant stabilizer, 4 kg of calcium (1 kg at a time mixed in a 5-gallon bucket and poured directly into the pool), and 650 ml of 31.45% muriatic acid. I then decided to add some algaecide (something I don't normally do) to ward off the little buggers. Admittedly I didn't measure and definitely poured too much in. The instructions were an initial dose of 135 ml per 10,000 litres, so 130,000 litres would need 1755 ml. As near as I can tell, I used about 2400-2666 ml or about 30%-33% of the 8L jug. No worries, I thought, it'll dissipate and be gone in a few weeks anyway. Then the SWG kicked in and now I get a white cloud out of the return jets whenever it runs. There is also a smell that is similar to chlorine but my wife described it as "soapy". The cloud disappears but the water definitely is not as clear and shiny as it was on Saturday.

The algaecide used:



My initial research was on algaecide and SWG chlorination. One article I read had a vague statement, "Algaecides can produce harmful chemical reactions if they are mixed in with high chlorine level pool water". My thought at this point is that when the cell generates the chlorine there is a localized high concentration of chlorine within the cell. Rather than going to Facebook for advice (just kidding), I asked a certain popular AI to spill the beans on whether (it thought) the statement was accurate and what the specific chemical reactions were, because that would be more helpful.

Here's the response - colour was added by me to highlight the text specific to this particular algaecide.

The specific chemical reactions depend on the type of algaecide and the existing chemicals in the pool, but the quote is essentially correct. Some algaecides may react with chlorine to produce potentially harmful byproducts.

Pool algaecides typically contain various compounds, such as copper-based chemicals (like copper sulfate), quaternary ammonium compounds (quats), or polymeric biguanides. The reactions of these algaecides with chlorine can be complex and not entirely predictable.

Here's a simplified explanation for some potential reactions:

1. Copper-based algaecides and chlorine: Copper can react with chlorine to form copper chloride. In large concentrations, copper chloride can cause staining on pool surfaces and lead to green-colored water. Moreover, it may cause eye, skin, and respiratory irritations in people.
2. Quaternary ammonium compounds and chlorine: Quats can react with chlorine to form chloramines, which are responsible for the "chlorine smell" often associated with pools. They can cause eye and skin irritation and respiratory problems.
3. Polymeric biguanides and chlorine: Biguanides don't typically react directly with chlorine. However, biguanides and chlorine are incompatible as sanitizers. If mixed, they can cause water cloudiness and may leave a residue on pool surfaces.

Click to expand...

A test performed today with my TF-100 test kit indicates a TC reading of 3.5 and CC of 0.5, which seems to support the possibility of the formation of chloramines through this reaction.

So, in search of truth and true intelligence on such matters, I of course turn to the TFP community and its resident experts. A search of the forums turned up a few threads like this old thread from 2010 with no mention of algaecide at all, this one from 2013 and this one from a month ago. None of which though, tie the cloudy exhaust with this chemical reaction forming chloramines. All of this leads me to humbly ask you, experts, "Is this really what's going on?" Ammonium compounds are reacting with the momentarily high chlorine levels within the salt cell and produce chloramines as a result which are seen as a cloudy exhaust from the jets until it is dissipated within the expanse of the pool. And if not, what would explain the sudden rise in combined chlorine levels?

I anticipate this will resolve itself as the algaecide subsides and so it's just a matter of time but in the meantime, I'd appreciate any insight anyone might have on this subject.

Kind regards,
Hubbs

Hello everyone,

I bought a home with a pool 9 months ago. I'm a first time pool owner. I've used this site constantly over the past months to learn and it has been a very valuable resource. Thank you to everyone who contributes! This is my first substantive post with a few questions that I have. I'm on my own as far as figuring it out (I didn't build it), so you guys are my only hope! I have attached a photo of the equipment setup as well as the pool.

1. This pool has a spillover from the hot tub. The water sound isn't peaceful; it is more stressful (even on low pump speed). Am I able to turn off the spillover, but still circulate/filter the pool water? I can't find the information in the manual. I've read all I can on this website about it. And a local pool company said it has to be on all the time (but they ended up being wrong about many things recently). I'd like to just never use the spillover, circulate and filter water through skimmers and returns, and have a quiet pool. Is this possible?
2. What is the common use of the waterfall water feature? I only have one pump. I also have a spillover from the hot tub like I mentioned. The waterfall feature is however a pleasant sound and sight. If I have this on, from what I have read it does not filter the water. Is that correct? If so, is it just for parties or special occasions? I'm trying to understand when and how to use it.
3. How do I turn on the water features on the first lounging pool step. I'm sorry I don't remember the terminology, but if you look at the photo, it is the two black rings on the top of the step in the water. They somehow got turned off and I want to circulate some sanitized water thorough the pipes.
4. Spa blower. I haven't had success turning that on. I press the blower button on the control panel, but I don't see a change. Is there something that I am missing?
5. Lastly, I don't plan on using the hot tub in this pool much. I have a freestanding hot tub previously purchased that I prefer. How often do I need to turn the equipment on spa mode to circulate sanitized water through the jets and drain?

Thank you all very much for helping with this. I really have tried to be comprehensive and these are some lingering questions that have gone unanswered for months. Please let me know any questions you have and I will do my best to answer them.

Alexander

I had a pool guy that was using pucks and my CYA went up to 78 (per a test at Leslies). I let him go and I'm doing it myself using liquid chlorine. My problem is the day I had Leslies test my water they said my TA was 48 (adjusted because of the CYA) My other readings were Free Chlorine 5.27. PH 8. Total Alk 48 (adjusted due to CYA) They had me increase TA and decrease PH which I did. OK - so now I test daily. My chlorine is usually around 4.5 in the morning and I add about 24 oz of liquid chlorine. My PH seems to always raise to 8.0 - I add 9 oz MA and the next day it will be 7.8, but then the second day goes back to 8.0 again. My TA is 80. My CYA is still 78-80 (hard to tell with the taylor kit - that little dot drives me crazy). I don't understand why I have to keep adding Muriatic Acid. I live in Tucson (hot and sunny) - it's been extremely windy for weeks - I have a new Stonescapes surface (January 2023). Do any of these affect the PH? Are my other readings OK? In the booklet with the Taylor test kit there is a Table relating to CYA correction to Total Alk. but I don't understand it. Like I said I need HELP!!!

So I've gone and done it.

added about 1.5 tablespoons of sodium bromide and am trying to adjust the bromine level slowly.

I started out with 3.5 FC and then added the sodium bromide. then tested BR and was expecting around 7.5-8 but I got around 2 so I added 20 ml of older( 21 081 date code) 10.8% liquid chlorine and it only went up to 3.3 BR. So I added another 20ML and am waiting a bit before testing again. I hope I haven't over shot. the bromine being X 2.25 makes the target range much smaller but I guess it is supposed to be more stable. I am aiming for 6 BR tonight and testing tomorrow so I can see what my daily loss is.

I read that the CL to BR conversion happens very quickly but maybe the sodium bromide is not active yet.

I understand I just multiply my FC reading by 2.25 to convert to BR. Are the CC readings still valid.

My usual dose is 30ML of the same 10.8% LC daily if no one uses the spa before the conversion to bromine. I'm planning on using bromine with a saltron mini for daily dosing and LC for when it gets used but currently no outlet close to the spa so LC is used for all doses. daily and after use.

So for whatever reason I am only reading 1 psi on my filter gauge. I replaced the gauge because I thought it was defective. Still reading 1 psi on the gauge. I have flow from the drain and the skimmer and flow to the return jets. I have noticed that it is not that strong. I have a pentair 2hp pump and pentair DE filter. Not sure what the issue it. Nothing that I know of has entered the piping and I have not backwashed since I opened the pool on May 1st. My only thought is that something is going on with the pentair multiport valve. Also I noticed that when I vacuum I can pull the hose out of the skimmer when the pump is running. I was never able to do that in the past. Any ideas?

Hi, looking for help please on Hayward 2.7 Tristar VSP pump, little less than 2yrs old.

Symptom = pump looks completely unpowered, pump control panel has no display. Ran for 30min or so, then it tripped breaker when it happened. Using Omnihub setup

Troubleshooting = 1) turned all breakers back on and staying on, 2) tried running the pump, no activity, 3) opened wiring to the motor control box and I believe I am reading 120v red wire, and 120v black wire to circuit board, so it looks like I'm getting power to the motor (so shouldn't display unit be working at this point at least?).

Observations = I also see couple of alarm messages on Omnihub display unit = 1) Comm Loss MSP to Device... HUA-Wiring Hub, and sometimes 2) Comm Loss MSP to Device... HUA Smart Relay. I believe #2 may be causing my pool lights from working correctly also.

Questions = would this be a capacitor issue? if capacitor issue, shouldn't I at least get display unit to work on pump? Could motor have overheated? (live in Texas)

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you!!

New pool owner.
Pump: Hayward Super Pump VS 700 230/115V
Filter: Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter
Heater: Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump

A couple of issues/questions. I've read several places where "some" air bubbles in the pump basket may be normal on variable speed pumps. At max RPMs there is 1 tiny air bubble and when I drop the speed down to 2000 RPMs there are a few more. It has gotten better after I refilled the basket with water and re-primed. However, the bubbles are still more prominent at lower RPMs. Also, we have 3 return jets in our pool. The one closest to the pump has a few air bubbles that trickle out. The other 2 never have air bubbles. I'm guessing there may be a leak at the pump, but I wasn't sure if that may be associated with the air bubbles in the pump basket itself.

2nd question. If the water flow is too low then I get the "Flo" error on the water heater. I set timers on the pump to run at max RMPs for 8 hours at night, 11pm - 7am. For 7am -11pm I set it at a lower RPM. Initally, I had it at 1500 rpm, but that would always cause the Flo error on the heater. So I edited the speed to 2000 rpms and that worked that the heater would kick on. However, this only last for 3-4 days then the Flo error came back. So I then edited the speed to 2100 rpm and that worked for 1 day.

Anyone else have this issue? I was hoping to be able to run my VS pump at lower speeds and still have the heater work. Also confused at why it would sometimes work and then not. Again, could there be an air leak somewhere that would affect the flow and GPM going through the heater.

Thanks for any feedback.

Hi all,
Tried to fire up the heater and got an ERR PS message on the lcd screen. Backwashed the filter and that solved the problem, heater fired up. However, it got me thinking about the heater pressure switch. It’s roughly 13 years old and I’m trying to determine whether it’s still functioning properly or if it needs to adjusted/replaced. Thanks, as always for the replies.

Been without power for 36 hours and most likely for another 3 days, what can I do to keep pool going? Can I still add chemicals even though pump won’t be running?

Issue:
My Pentair Warrior SI does not appear to receive power from the power supply/control unit. The power supply/control unit works correctly (the lights turn on, there's no detectable light flickering, the buttons work as they should, etc.), but the blue LED indicator on the front of the robot doesn't come on. The robot does not move nor does it make a sound or indicate it's struggling to turn on in any way. I plan to take it to a local pool store I trust, but before I do that, I'm trying to gauge whether this might be a quick and cheap fix or if I might need to replace the entire unit.

Other important information:

• The communications cable running from the power supply/control unit to the robot is undamaged. I also unplugged the communications cable from the power supply unit, cleaned it, and plugged it back in. The prongs were already clean and uncorroded.
• I removed the motor unit and separated the housing to make sure there wasn't any water trapped inside. Based on what I could tell, I couldn't find evidence of water having gotten inside the housing before. All of the circuitry appeared clean and undamaged. All wires appeared to be seated correctly.
• I tried plugging the pool robot into different outlets outside (and one inside on a different circuit). The issue remained the same.
• Admittedly, I left the robot in the pool over the winter and had not turned the unit on for a couple of months. In terms of water treatment over that time, I've only been in the habit of adding chlorine. This robot issue + the summer starting is a clear reminder to get my act together when it comes to robot care, appropriate water and pool maintenance, etc.

Hi all,

Been an avid TFP reader/follower since acquiring home with pool in 2020.
I thought I had this pool opening thing down pat, and it has worked till now...
But this season seems to be different.
Here's what I've done so far:

Scooped as much debris as possible (had plenty of it), got pH down from 8.4 to 7.3, raised CYA from nothing measurable using TF-100 to 35ish, raised alkalinity from 40 to 70, then started SLAM.

Within 3 days pool slowly demanded less chlorine, and went from swampy to cloudy white.

However, I can't seem to get the water from cloudy to clear.

I deep-cleaned the Hayward S244T filter for over an hour till it ran clear 10 days ago to see if that would help; no difference.

I have found in previous seasons that a cup of DE helped clear up faster; it doesn't seem to be helping much now.

I am currently trying to keep it SLAMed. My FC is at a steady 20 using FAS-DPD, CC is still Approx. 2.
But it is barely clearer than a week ago.

I should add, I am going from a starting pressure post backwash of 13.5 to 18 nearly twice a day, and backwashing out cloudy water. So it seems like filter is doing something. But if I recall correctly, I may have loaded this filter with Quikrete pool sand before I knew better...
But it did work ok for last 3 seasons...

Any ideas?
Thank you!

I am looking for advice for repairing a chunk, that one of my children broke off, on my spa spillover.
I'm hoping I can use an adhesive or something similar to essentially glue it back in place. Namely, what would be the best products and methods for this type of repair.

I've attached two pictures of the stone showing where it is broken, and one picture showing me holding the broken piece against the stone.

I'm not certain, but it appears to be a marble stone slab that is used for the spa spill over.

Thanks!

After reading several comments, and being in the mechanical equipment industry, I know it's typically best to go oem. Now, my contemplation is dropping down to the T-9 or sticking with the T-15. My pool is about 26k gal, right above the max end of the T-9, so I originally went with the T-15. Does it make sense to lower my cell capacity, especially since I have a VS pump that reduces speed down pretty low? Any chance this will increase longevity, or will it likely reduce it, seeing as it will have to run a longer duty cycle?

Last question, I'm seeing the long life cell advertised for about $250 more, but it only comes with 1 extra year warranty. Any long term feedback on the LL cell?

Hi Everyone, I'm just here to introduce myself. My name is Alexander and I live near Houston,Texas. I have read almost everything on this website since owning my first pool 9 months ago. Thank you to all of you who make this information available. The methods and information have proved very valuable in getting my pool up to speed quickly!

How do you know if/when your SWG is actually going bad? I can’t get my IC40 to produce more chlorine than what it already is. Tried Superchlorinate for 24 hours with no effect. It has been set for 80% for the past three days and won’t raise the chlorine level. Normally, it is set for 40-60% and results in about 3 ppm FC and TC. No error LEDs. Everything seems normal. IC40 was installed in 2020. Cell is clean too. I’m in Michigan so it hasn’t been running for more than 6 months each year due to our short season.

FC and TC are 1 ppm
TA 110
pH 7.6
CYA 40
CH 220
Salt 3250

Thanks!

Hi All,

Having trouble finding a part for my zinc anode installation. Company who makes it (C-M-P.com) tells me it is in stock and any pool store should be able to order it for me. No direct to consumer. I'm having a tough time finding the clear plastic lid (with hole in center through which bolt goes and holds zinc anode in place). Couple of pics attached.

Again, only need the clear lid (I was able to find the grey locking nut and o-ring to go with it.) Washers for the bolt would be great but can likely get something from Home Depot to work.

Any idea of any independent pool stores or any place where someone can order this for me? Anyone on TFP who can help?

FYI - Old Part # = 25810-200-920 (Now 25810-400-100)

Thanks!

Jeff

I have a "party" pool sized pool which is about 15K gallons. If I can get a vacuum that is less cost in maintenance and built well, I don't mind vacuuming the pool vs continuing to have to repair this side pressure Polaris Quattro thingy cleaner.

If you have a recommendation for a vacuum, I'd love to hear about it.

Hi my first post.
We just bought/moved into a house that has an older pool/spa.
Pump won’t pull water from spa.
Had a pool guy over who thought he found problem with spa return pipe right before the pump . He replaced that ($150) then left. Pump still doesn’t pull any water from spa. I called pool guy he said he recommends leak detection company.
I’m wondering should I try see if there’s maybe some blockage in the pipes from leaves etc ?

Obviously, the T-15 cell replacement is ridiculous, and any consumer would look at the alternatives. However, are the Amazon, or other online site cells any good? Will they last at least a few years? Even if I had to replace the cell twice, in the next 8-10 years, it would still be a better value than the OEM Hayward replacement. So, my question is, does anyone have a long term review on the function and durability of aftermarket cells. I found a few threads on this subject but didn't see any long term feedback.

So in the process of nailing down my new schedule, I have run into an unknown..

Screen logic shows two circuits (outside of features), being POOL and SPA. When Pool mode is running, valve into the filter is 100% skimmer and vents (2), SPA is off and return valve is 80% SPA (spillways from spa) and 20% pool jets. When SPA mode is turned on, input valve is 100% SPA and returns are 100% spa.

What I can not seem to find in the app is HOW these circuits are actuated? Under valve config in SL config, there is no setup. So what is telling the valves to open/close when the circuits change?

I ask because I want to create a spillway circuit and I cant seem to tell the system how to tie the valves into a POOL config

Hi guys, my Purechlor SWG will not show any errors, but will completely turn off, then back on just about every 30 seconds. I don’t appear to be generating. When I try to enter tech mode, it will reset before I can read any of the lights.
Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Hi,

I have a relatively new Polaris 280 that I purchased last year. This season it seems whenever I check the bag for debris it is filled with water instead. I would think the bag would be too porous to just hold water but that doesn't seem to be the case. Have tried opening the zipper slightly but that makes no difference. Has anyone experienced this? I'm including a photo to show what I'm talking about. How can I get it to start sucking up debris?

Hello All you Pool Chemists!

TOTAL newb to pool ownership. Had a pool for a month or so many years ago, made the pool store mistake, never got it right, took down and threw away.

Just setup new pool hoping for smoother results this go around for kids and hubby who thinks just add shock and use chlorine tablets.

I am very overwhelmed and cant seem to find a good article for dummies

Used HTH 6-way kit ( I know need another brand but its what we could find locally on a Sunday).
Nothing currently added to pool water (well water fed) YET...
Logged into PoolMath app..

1. Alkalinity= 300ppm
2. PH =7.2
3. Chlorine= 0 (no chlorine added at all yet)
4. CYA= 0? Tested twice, tube filled, dot never disappeared
5. Calcium Hardness=230

Where do you even start!?! Help please!

I really appreciate all the information on your website, but I'm struggling to put it all together. I just want to know the correct technique for SLAMing my pool, but it seems like the information is spread over multiple web pages, a little bit here a little bit there. At this point I have about 10 TFP pages open and I'm still not totally clear on what to do. Do you have a page that just explains all the information in one place?

I'm especially struggling to know how much chlorine to add to my pool. Every time I click a link that is supposed to tell me this, it leads me to a page that doesn't help. I can't find the promised "The Chlorine/CYA Chart". I'm really at a loss.

I've had this discrepancy since changing the cell about a year ago. It was in an unopened box that the previous owner left so it was several years old when installed. Not sure why it was lying around but decided to give it a try. No problems with it other than the different readings.
Taylor drop test says 1800. Salt cells says 2600. SWG currently set at 20%. The T-9 size matches what is listed on the panel.
I know that I have to add some salt since I'm at the lower end but am wondering how much to add given this difference in readings. Does the salt level affect performance of the cell/generating of chlorine?
TIA!

I got two quotes, one for 30k one for 35k, which are almost half of the gunite spa. It is a 90" acrylic spa, with a waterfall that connects spa to the pool (model SW-505 by SpillwaySPA (The Spillway Spa Non-Spill Hot Tub Spa Collection). Quote includes purchasing and installing the spa 2/3 under ground, stone finish, HDF400 Gas Heater, LACUS11100 LED light, HLPLUS4W Omnilogic for automation with salt generator, check valve after the heater. Anything missing that I should add? Maybe a UV sanitizer? Note that my pool has a Pentail Intellipro 011018 pump. Should I pull electrical and plumbing permit only, correct? Final results will look like this, only that it is hexagonal: Login to view embedded media (I am going to pick the stone this week).