Would love feedback on the pool project

[JoyfulNoise]

One thing - sometimes pool builders are quirky and they just want to build the pool they know how to build and they don’t appreciate customer requests that make them work outside of their comfort zone. This results in all sorts of dumb and bogus excuses being generated for why they can’t do what you’re asking them to do. It’s not every builder but it’s quite common to hear some really “fake but accurate” excuses. The simple fact is this - nowhere in the pool code is it impermissible to hook up an auto fill line to a softened water line. The only requirement that is typically found is that the hookup uses the appropriate pressure reducing and anti-siphon valves. So there should be no push back on this point other than the builder might charge you extra for the hookup if his plumber has to add the additional hardware.

Also, I highly suggest the “dual eliminator” system from WaterTec. It has a granular activated carbon (GAC) tank in combination with the standard softener tank so it removes all chlorine/chloramine from the water. Using the GAC stage also increases the service life of the softener resin as chlorine destroys the resin over time. It’s a little more $$$ but it’s so worth it.

 

[New2pools520]

One thing - sometimes pool builders are quirky and they just want to build the pool they know how to build and they don’t appreciate customer requests that make them work outside of their comfort zone. This results in all sorts of dumb and bogus excuses being generated for why they can’t do what you’re asking them to do. It’s not every builder but it’s quite common to hear some really “fake but accurate” excuses. The simple fact is this - nowhere in the pool code is it impermissible to hook up an auto fill line to a softened water line. The only requirement that is typically found is that the hookup uses the appropriate pressure reducing and anti-siphon valves. So there should be no push back on this point other than the builder might charge you extra for the hookup if his plumber has to add the additional hardware.

Also, I highly suggest the “dual eliminator” system from WaterTec. It has a granular activated carbon (GAC) tank in combination with the standard softener tank so it removes all chlorine/chloramine from the water. Using the GAC stage also increases the service life of the softener resin as chlorine destroys the resin over time. It’s a little more $$$ but it’s so worth it.

Sounds good, I’ll let the pool company know I’m getting one and see what they have to say. I’ll also see what WaterTec has to say next week hopefully. You saw the pool quote, I’m unfortunately willing to throw the wallet around so I’ll probably want the best softener they have. I see they have salt free with doesn’t require regeneration, it seems it just temporarily neutralizes the calcium which I assume probably wouldn’t work with the pool since the water just sits.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sounds good, I’ll let the pool company know I’m getting one and see what they have to say. I’ll also see what WaterTec has to say next week hopefully. You saw the pool quote, I’m unfortunately willing to throw the wallet around so I’ll probably want the best softener they have. I see they have salt free with doesn’t require regeneration, it seems it just temporarily neutralizes the calcium which I assume probably wouldn’t work with the pool since the water just sits.

I’ll let WaterTec tell you all about their products but, for me, I wanted a salt based regenerated resin bed as it’s a time-tested technology that doesn’t fail. All the “no salt” softeners have serious limitations or are just gimmicks. If you already have the plumbing loop in your garage then the system of choice for me would be a salt based system.

 

[New2pools520]

Good points, I’ll hopefully get a chance to talk to them next week and update the thread. Appreciate your time and have a good weekend

 

[New2pools520]

One thing - sometimes pool builders are quirky and they just want to build the pool they know how to build and they don’t appreciate customer requests that make them work outside of their comfort zone. This results in all sorts of dumb and bogus excuses being generated for why they can’t do what you’re asking them to do. It’s not every builder but it’s quite common to hear some really “fake but accurate” excuses. The simple fact is this - nowhere in the pool code is it impermissible to hook up an auto fill line to a softened water line. The only requirement that is typically found is that the hookup uses the appropriate pressure reducing and anti-siphon valves. So there should be no push back on this point other than the builder might charge you extra for the hookup if his plumber has to add the additional hardware.

Also, I highly suggest the “dual eliminator” system from WaterTec. It has a granular activated carbon (GAC) tank in combination with the standard softener tank so it removes all chlorine/chloramine from the water. Using the GAC stage also increases the service life of the softener resin as chlorine destroys the resin over time. It’s a little more $$$ but it’s so worth it.

You were absolutely spot on, the builder was not interested in hooking the softener to the auto fill. He left a voicemail so I couldn’t ask any questions but he said “you’ll be adding bags of salt all the time” if I were topping off with softened water. Sounds a bogus reason but I figured I’d get your take seeing how I’m not familiar enough with the chemistry.

At this point I’ll probably just have the softener added after the fact. WaterTec didn’t mind hooking into the pool for you?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You were absolutely spot on, the builder was not interested in hooking the softener to the auto fill. He left a voicemail so I couldn’t ask any questions but he said “you’ll be adding bags of salt all the time” if I were topping off with softened water. Sounds a bogus reason but I figured I’d get your take seeing how I’m not familiar enough with the chemistry.

At this point I’ll probably just have the softener added after the fact. WaterTec didn’t mind hooking into the pool for you?

Let me show you my "shocked face" at the pool builder's response -

You will not be “adding bags of salt” … as you surmise, more pool builder BS predicated on their desire to only do the things they know how to do and making excuses for their lack of knowledge or willingness to learn. My autofill is added to my softener and the pool is about equivalent to adding another person to your home in terms of softened water use. As long as the size of the resin bed and reserve capacity of the softener is setup correctly, it will work fine.

Yes, WaterTec was fine with hooking my softener up to the autofill and they even did all the digging work to get to the buried autofill line as well as moved the original plumbing and valves from the nearby spigot to the new external softened water line .... but I paid extra for that. You'll have to ask them to do that and you will be charged for the extra plumbing work. Leigh DeGrave is the son of the original owners of WaterTec and he is the current CEO (he also does service calls and plumbing work with laborers ... totally hilarious when the CEO shows up to change your RO filters under your sink ...). He will be happy to help you through the layout process.

Call them in sooner rather than later though ....

So here's how this has to go - you need to INFORM the PB that you will be hooking up the autofill line to the water softener. You need to look at your yard, your pool layout, and your house layout and figure out how to make sure that the autofill line is within a reasonable distance to an exterior wall of the garage where the plumbing loop is so that the plumber can tee off the softener line and run a pipe through the wall to the outside. It would be nice if your PB would make sure that the autofill line trench is run to where the softener line will exit your home so that it can all be buried nicely and look good. On the outside of the house you need to make sure you have BOTH a 1/4 turn shutoff valve (for easy shutting off of the line in case of emergency) AND a back flow preventer (anti-siphon) valve. You do this because it is plumbing code - water form the softener is considered POTABLE water, pool water is not potable water. Therefore, whenever there is a chance that a potable water line could accidentally siphon water form a non-potable source, there needs to be an anti-siphon to prevent that. It's for health and safety reasons. It rarely, if ever happens, but code is what code is - a set of rules to protect against stupid things happening. It's very similar to how an irrigation stub would be plumbed off of the main water line or a spigot line in your yard. All this hardware and plumbing is going to cost extra so be informed that your softener install will not be cheap.

Don't accept any BS from the builder. Simply tell him you've made the decision and you will be doing the autofill line hook up on your own dime. All he has to do is run the line to a suitable location. Maybe when he realizes that his BS excuses aren't acceptable, he'll offer to do the hookup so he can get a chance to add to his already inflated plumbing profit margin ...

 

[gingrbredman]

more pool builder BS predicated on their desire to only do the things they know how to do and making excuses for their lack of knowledge or willingness to learn.

I am going to copy that line and have it ready for the next pool build thread when we read about some insane response about why something can not be done.

"You can't connect your auto fill line to water that will make it easy to maintain water chemistry! I have never done that before as it has to take 42 bags of salt per week in order to accomplish that. We just tap off the house spigot for goodness sakes!"

 

[New2pools520]

Let me show you my "shocked face" at the pool builder's response -

You will not be “adding bags of salt” … as you surmise, more pool builder BS predicated on their desire to only do the things they know how to do and making excuses for their lack of knowledge or willingness to learn. My autofill is added to my softener and the pool is about equivalent to adding another person to your home in terms of softened water use. As long as the size of the resin bed and reserve capacity of the softener is setup correctly, it will work fine.

Yes, WaterTec was fine with hooking my softener up to the autofill and they even did all the digging work to get to the buried autofill line as well as moved the original plumbing and valves from the nearby spigot to the new external softened water line .... but I paid extra for that. You'll have to ask them to do that and you will be charged for the extra plumbing work. Leigh DeGrave is the son of the original owners of WaterTec and he is the current CEO (he also does service calls and plumbing work with laborers ... totally hilarious when the CEO shows up to change your RO filters under your sink ...). He will be happy to help you through the layout process.

Call them in sooner rather than later though ....

So here's how this has to go - you need to INFORM the PB that you will be hooking up the autofill line to the water softener. You need to look at your yard, your pool layout, and your house layout and figure out how to make sure that the autofill line is within a reasonable distance to an exterior wall of the garage where the plumbing loop is so that the plumber can tee off the softener line and run a pipe through the wall to the outside. It would be nice if your PB would make sure that the autofill line trench is run to where the softener line will exit your home so that it can all be buried nicely and look good. On the outside of the house you need to make sure you have BOTH a 1/4 turn shutoff valve (for easy shutting off of the line in case of emergency) AND a back flow preventer (anti-siphon) valve. You do this because it is plumbing code - water form the softener is considered POTABLE water, pool water is not potable water. Therefore, whenever there is a chance that a potable water line could accidentally siphon water form a non-potable source, there needs to be an anti-siphon to prevent that. It's for health and safety reasons. It rarely, if ever happens, but code is what code is - a set of rules to protect against stupid things happening. It's very similar to how an irrigation stub would be plumbed off of the main water line or a spigot line in your yard. All this hardware and plumbing is going to cost extra so be informed that your softener install will not be cheap.

Don't accept any BS from the builder. Simply tell him you've made the decision and you will be doing the autofill line hook up on your own dime. All he has to do is run the line to a suitable location. Maybe when he realizes that his BS excuses aren't acceptable, he'll offer to do the hookup so he can get a chance to add to his already inflated plumbing profit margin ...

Well I just had WaterTec out to the house. They told me the obvious, EXTREMELY HARD WATER. What was interesting was that he told me they wouldn’t recommend hooking into the pool and that they wouldn’t even do it if I wanted them to. While I realize personally that it would be good to do this for the pool no one else involved in the process seems to haha. At this point I’m thinking I’ll just end up draining the pool every couple of years and refill. Either way, I’m not going to stress over it at this point.

On a side note, it seems like a decent amount of locals on here, do people ever get together and shoot the breeze. Or come by when someone has a new pool put in to help get the TFP pool clarity on track

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Wow. I am shocked. When I had WaterTec out a few years ago they had absolutely no problem with hooking up my auto fill.

Can they just have you a soft water spigot outside?? Then you can at least top off with a garden hose.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

As a AZ newbie, I don’t think you realize what the words “I’ll just drain the pool every few years..” mean. Believe me, it’s not fun or inexpensive.

 

[New2pools520]

Wow. I am shocked. When I had WaterTec out a few years ago they had absolutely no problem with hooking up my auto fill.

Can they just have you a soft water spigot outside?? Then you can at least top off with a garden hose.

Yeah, the guy said I’d have to bring in my own plumber and it would probably cost a fortune but that they don’t do it. He actually pretty much scoffed at me when I brought it up. I have the loop in my garage so it was like we install here and that’s it.

It’s true, I don’t know the pain associated with filling a pool every few years. It’s just my wife, dog and I so currently we use hardly any water. It just seems like the only option at this point unless I just want to swim in a pool of calcium crystals in a couple years or fill it with distilled water by the gallon hahahaha. Anyway, the water hardness will just have to be something I figure out along the way. I’m not going to get hyper focused on it before the pool is even built.

I do appreciate the info you provide on things though

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, the guy said I’d have to bring in my own plumber and it would probably cost a fortune but that they don’t do it. He actually pretty much scoffed at me when I brought it up. I have the loop in my garage so it was like we install here and that’s it.

It’s true, I don’t know the pain associated with filling a pool every few years. It’s just my wife, dog and I so currently we use hardly any water. It just seems like the only option at this point unless I just want to swim in a pool of calcium crystals in a couple years or fill it with distilled water by the gallon hahahaha. Anyway, the water hardness will just have to be something I figure out along the way. I’m not going to get hyper focused on it before the pool is even built.

I do appreciate the info you provide on things though

Well, then ask WaterTec to provide you with a TEE on the side that supplies softened water to the house. Here's what it looks like -



If you have to pay the extra $10 for a copper tee, that really shouldn't be a big deal. Then you can hire your own plumber to run the line outside and hook you up to your pool autofill plumbing.

Look, I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear-end. You are early enough in your build process that I am trying to give you options that will save you a lot of frustration down the line. I've been there, I had sky-high hardness levels in my pool water, I am telling you, it's no fun and it's not without potential costs. If you can plan things out now and get your contractors to throw you a bone (it's really no skin off their rear-ends either), then you will at least be in a position to do something about it in the future. And this isn't some theoretical argument about calcium hardness and mineral scale making your water feel not-soft - excess calcium hardness can do ENORMOUS amounts of damage to a pool and it's equipment. You are literally about to spend $100,000 of your hard-earned money on a pool ... so don't you want to be in a position where you can take care of that huge investment you're about to make? Excessively hard water can scale calcium on to tiles which will require you to get the tile in your pool cleaned every 2 years or so. Tile cleaning can cost anywhere from $500-$1000 dollars, if they can clean them (glass tiles are notoriously hard to clean without scratching them). Calcium scale can destroy a salt-water chlorine generator .... $1200 on average to replace. Excessive calcium scale can lead to your pool heater getting plugged up ... $100's of dollars to service OR, possibly, $4,000 to replace if you damage the heat exchanger.

Kind of expensive, no??

Water in Tucson is charged by the tier. When you drain and refill a pool, you are charged not only for the water you use to fill the pool but also sewerage charged for the water you add. These are the latest Tucson Water supply rates (sewerage rates are fixed price for the total volume delivered and change annually based on usage) -


When you refill a pool, you will almost always push your water bill up to the highest tiered rates. Every 10,000 gallons of water equals 13.4 CCF. So even if your monthly bill normally sits below 8CCF of usage, one 20,000 gallon refill is going to drive your bill well into the $250-$350 range.

Given all those potential costs, I think it's pretty easy to find a plumber who can hook up a softened water line to your autofill for less than $1,000.

Again, this is all unto you, but a little bit of planning now can make your life a whole lot easier in the future ... been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

 

[New2pools520]

Well, then ask WaterTec to provide you with a TEE on the side that supplies softened water to the house. Here's what it looks like -

View attachment 455971

If you have to pay the extra $10 for a copper tee, that really shouldn't be a big deal. Then you can hire your own plumber to run the line outside and hook you up to your pool autofill plumbing.

Look, I'm not trying to be a pain in the rear-end. You are early enough in your build process that I am trying to give you options that will save you a lot of frustration down the line. I've been there, I had sky-high hardness levels in my pool water, I am telling you, it's no fun and it's not without potential costs. If you can plan things out now and get your contractors to throw you a bone (it's really no skin off their rear-ends either), then you will at least be in a position to do something about it in the future. And this isn't some theoretical argument about calcium hardness and mineral scale making your water feel not-soft - excess calcium hardness can do ENORMOUS amounts of damage to a pool and it's equipment. You are literally about to spend $100,000 of your hard-earned money on a pool ... so don't you want to be in a position where you can take care of that huge investment you're about to make? Excessively hard water can scale calcium on to tiles which will require you to get the tile in your pool cleaned every 2 years or so. Tile cleaning can cost anywhere from $500-$1000 dollars, if they can clean them (glass tiles are notoriously hard to clean without scratching them). Calcium scale can destroy a salt-water chlorine generator .... $1200 on average to replace. Excessive calcium scale can lead to your pool heater getting plugged up ... $100's of dollars to service OR, possibly, $4,000 to replace if you damage the heat exchanger.

Kind of expensive, no??

Water in Tucson is charged by the tier. When you drain and refill a pool, you are charged not only for the water you use to fill the pool but also sewerage charged for the water you add. These are the latest Tucson Water supply rates (sewerage rates are fixed price for the total volume delivered and change annually based on usage) -

View attachment 455974
When you refill a pool, you will almost always push your water bill up to the highest tiered rates. Every 10,000 gallons of water equals 13.4 CCF. So even if your monthly bill normally sits below 8CCF of usage, one 20,000 gallon refill is going to drive your bill well into the $250-$350 range.

Given all those potential costs, I think it's pretty easy to find a plumber who can hook up a softened water line to your autofill for less than $1,000.

Again, this is all unto you, but a little bit of planning now can make your life a whole lot easier in the future ... been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

You aren’t being a pain, I’m here asking for help and input both of which you are providing. Appreciate the knowledge and time