Which Pump - DS or VS?

[ilovemypool90]

Hi all,

Turned on my pump Sunday and the whole thing erupted into smoke and sparks. It was after a big storm and there was a huge ant hill right next to it. Apparently ants can short a motor?

Looking for a new pump motor. Coming from a single speed 2HP Century pump that is attached to an old Whisperflo pump head. 56Y. Powers vacuum, overflowing spa, and also runs through a chlorinator. Pool is approx. 15k gallons. I use the Pentair intellicenter to control everything.

I've found this VS pump: Pentair Whisperflo VS Motor Upgrade Kit - 2.2HP - MKIT32VS22 - INYOPools.com

And this DS pump: Emerson 48Y Thru-Bolt Dual Speed 2/0.25HP Full Rated Pool and Spa Motor | Leslie's Pool Supplies

Based on my calculations, at low speed the DS pump is much cheaper. 230v x 3.4A for dual speed when VS is 230V x 13.5A. Does that make sense? Any differences in noise, efficiency, etc. that I need to think about? Would both plug into the intellicenter?

Should also mention I'm in TX, run pool year round, and electricity is 13c/kWH.

Thank you!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

A VSP is a variable horsepower motor if it helps you think of it that way. You will NOT be using all 13.5A. My VSP running at 1600RPM uses about 280W of power or so. So depending on your plumbing requirements, VSP’s can run a lot cheaper than a 2-speed pump on low.

 

[JamesW]

Check for available rebates.

Pool Pump Rebate Program Rules

www.swepco.com

Pool Pumps

savings.austinenergy.com

 

[guinness]

I use the Pentair intellicenter to control everything.

If you go for the DS motor you will need the Two-Speed Relay for control. If you got for a VS motor you will need serial communication (RS-485) support or digital input control. For the former it's pretty much Pentair pumps only (Intelliflo, Whisperflo, Superflo), for the latter you will need spare relays in your IntelliCenter.

 

[ilovemypool90]

A VSP is a variable horsepower motor if it helps you think of it that way. You will NOT be using all 13.5A. My VSP running at 1600RPM uses about 280W of power or so. So depending on your plumbing requirements, VSP’s can run a lot cheaper than a 2-speed pump on low.

Thanks. The 13.5A is quoted as being at 600 RPM, its lowest setting. But you're saying it won't draw that?

 

[JamesW]

Get an IntelliFlo pump.

 

[ilovemypool90]

Get an IntelliFlo pump.

These are triple the price (if you can find one). Basically the same motor and uses whisperflo front end, so not any different?

 

[ilovemypool90]

If you go for the DS motor you will need the Two-Speed Relay for control. If you got for a VS motor you will need serial communication (RS-485) support or digital input control. For the former it's pretty much Pentair pumps only (Intelliflo, Whisperflo, Superflo), for the latter you will need spare relays in your IntelliCenter.

OK thanks for this. This is what I was wondering. If any adjustments are needed for the DS. So you're saying the difference in price will be negated by buying that part? And for the VS I need to check for spare relays? What are those exactly. What is serial communication support?

 

[JamesW]

The 13.5A is quoted as being at 600 RPM, its lowest setting. But you're saying it won't draw that?

The amperage is always quoted at full speed.

The difference is the voltage.

At 230 volts, the motor is limited to 13.5 amps.

At 115 volts AC, the motor will draw up to 17.4 amps.

 

[JamesW]

Basically the same motor and uses whisperflo front end, so not any different?

The Intelliflo will communicate with the IntelliCenter.

How old is your pump?

Does your utility offer a rebate?

 

[ilovemypool90]

The amperage is always quoted at full speed.

The difference is the voltage.

At 230 volts, the motor is limited to 13.5 amps.

At 115 volts AC, the motor will draw up to 17.4 amps.

View attachment 460770

OK thanks. I was thinking in this chart that the 600 RPM was correlated to the 13.5 amps. But what you're saying is that at 230V the max draw is 13.5 amps, and at 600 RPM it will be much less.

 

[ilovemypool90]

The Intelliflo will communicate with the IntelliCenter.

How old is your pump?

Does your utility offer a rebate?

OK and neither of these motors will? Pump is very old Whisperflo (just moved into this house - house is 20 yrs old, think it has been there for a long time). No utility rebate.

 

[guinness]

And for the VS I need to check for spare relays? What are those exactly. What is serial communication support?

You need unused relays in your IntelliCenter, how many do you have? For example the Nidec Neptune 2.7THP has digital inputs as described in the Installation and Operation Manual. For each input (or speed) you will need to drive it with a relay. Serial communication (RS-485) allows for direct control but each manufacturer uses their own protocol (unfortunately).

 

[JamesW]

But what you're saying is that at 230V the max draw is 13.5 amps, and at 600 RPM it will be much less.

Correct.

The pump affinity law indicates a cube factor for power difference.

For example, at full speed, the power draw is about 230 x 13.5 = 3,105 watts.

At half speed (3,450/2 = 1725 rpm), the power will be about 1/2³ = 1/8th = 3,105/8 = 388 watts

At 1/3 speed (3,450/3 = 1,150 rpm), the power will be about 1/3³ = 1/27th = 3,105/27 = 115 watts.

These are approximations and the lowest you will probably be able to go is about 1,150 rpm.

 

[Jimrahbe]

90,

What is the point of having an IntelliCenter and not being about to control your pump speeds???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Pump is very old Whisperflo (just moved into this house - house is 20 yrs old, think it has been there for a long time).

In my opinion, a pump that old should be replaced.

As you take it apart, you will find that other parts are no longer usable and it is not worth the trouble.

 

[ilovemypool90]

You need unused relays in your IntelliCenter, how many do you have? For example the Nidec Neptune 2.7THP has digital inputs as described in the Installation and Operation Manual. For each input (or speed) you will need to drive it with a relay. Serial communication (RS-485) allows for direct control but each manufacturer uses their own protocol (unfortunately).

I will have to check. So are you saying if I got the Nidec (was also looking at that) and have unused relays it would work?

 

[ilovemypool90]

90,

What is the point of having an IntelliCenter and not being about to control your pump speeds???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Totally agree. Wasn't sure if I could still control them with these motors.

 

[ilovemypool90]

In my opinion, a pump that old should be replaced.

As you take it apart, you will find that other parts are no longer usable and it is not worth the trouble.

OK thanks James. Appreciate all the help. It does look OK and I was planning to get the "tune up kit" to help that. Aladdin Tune Up Kit Pentair/Purex Whisperflo - GOKIT32 - INYOPools.com Plastics are in good shape.

We're doing a ton of housework right now so not sure a 1600 pump is in the cards. I'll take what I've read here and make a decision. Seems pointless to install either of these if they won't work with intellicenter. I may just go with a direct replacement for 300 for now and then do a full pump swap next time.

 

[guinness]

I will have to check. So are you saying if I got the Nidec (was also looking at that) and have unused relays it would work?

There are various posts on this forum where members have this setup. You typically use the filter relay with a low speed for skimming/SWCG and then another AUX relay to increase the speed when using the spa/heater. Depending on your equipment/usage you would probably only need two relays.

Create Your Signature with your equipment so that we can better understand what your setup is. Photos of equipment pad and InteliiCenter showing relays/breakers would also be helpful.