Where could algae be hiding?

[Strawberryshortcake]

Despite my best efforts it seems there is an algae bloom or something going on with my pool. My chlorine demand is currently unmanageable and whatever is going on is consuming more bleach then my initial slam / inheritance of the pool!

I do not think ammonia because my CYA has remained level.

The water is completely crystal clear, no sign of cloudyness at all. I got in, felt the bottom, the walls, there is no slim whats so ever (still brushed). We are leafing the leaves out within a few hours of them going in, and running the robot 3-4 times a day to keep absolutely everything out of it (cleaning filters with diluted bleach after running). Just to see if it was stuff getting in the pool.

I attempted the overnight test a few nights ago and knew immediately I didn't pass as I had tested around 9pm and then around 11pm to make sure i knew my baseline and I had lost 2ppm and had 1cc. S o I just jumped straight into slam and poured whatever pool math told me to in (it was like 8 gallons).

My CYA is 60 and according to pool math my slam level is 24.

I am losing 3-4ppm overnight and a crazy 10-15ppm in the day. The pool is in direct sun pretty from from sunup to sundown and it has been hot. I am using fresh 10% bleach, and I am sure it's fine as 15-20 minutes after adding I am at the level I expected. I dropped from 24 to 21 within 5 hours earlier this even (after the sun went down)...
The CC is usually 0, but every few test there will be 1ppm, or 0.5ppm, or what I would consider even lower, ever so slightly pink tinged that less then a drop would clear.
I am just really baffled at how clear and nice the water is and this chlorine usage :\
I am actually questioning if my CYA is even doing it's job because of the insane drops in the daytime.

So... where can algae be hiding? I have 1 skimmer. 2 Returns. No drain, but there is a weird suction pipe on the side that was theorized here to be a failed cleaner port they put too high up. My stairs are not removable. There are no lights. There are no features at all. Removed ladder weeks ago. Removed frog log, no floats, nothing at all in the pool. I looked under the small ledge of each step, too.

We DO get frogs in the pool and they DO poop on the stairs. Not every night, haven't saw it for 4-5 days actually. We remove the frogs when we see them in there and walk them down the road... I try to remove the frog poo by sucking it up into a water bottle, but some of the 'debris' floats away. I don't let it sit there, removing it as soon as I see it. However, this was happening when everything was going fine.
We have also found 2 small mice dead in the skimmer in the past week, 2 days apart, and that is new, but they were in there for less then 10 hours.
And the usual - spiders, june bugs, worms, leaves.

There was Metal Magic sequestrate in the pool but I am sure I have broken all that to pieces now with all this bleach as the stains have precipitated back onto the liner. It was my understanding though that HEDP didn't up chlorine usage much, so I really don't think it's this either way. I did do an ascorbic acid treatment, but this was nearly a month ago.

Some ideas please. Fiance is starting to really consider covering the pool and letting it do what it will until we can afford to drain it, replace the liner and put up shades to block uv (since the cya doesn't seem to be blocking enough - uv index here was 11 the other day..). Obviously I don't want this to happen but I have spent $100 on bleach since Sunday night. (Not all of that was used, but I on'y had 7 gallons left today, so he went again and got 20 more bottles... ). Not to mention chewing through the FAS-DPD reagents.

FC: 21.5 (added bleach to 24, waiting to retest)
CC: less then 0.5 but pink tinged...
PH: As of a few days ago it was 7.2, Haven't tested since slamming as levels are too high
TA: 80
CYA: 60
Temp: 86
Outside temps: it's been 75-80 at night and 90s in the day, with heat indexes 102+.
I did the calcium test a few days ago as well but I can't remember the level other then really low...will go get another if helpful.
Slam started Saturday. Not seeing any improvement in chlorine usage, water is crystal clear.

 

[Jnet]

How incredibly frustrating! I'm sure you'll get more sage advice as others chime in. My only thought might be algae hiding in wrinkles in the liner. Anything like that? Your chlorine consumption is so high, there's got to be something in there...

 

[mknauss]

All of your data says you should not have an issue. Your CYA is high for a non-swcg pool but not unmanageable. The FC loss overnight can only be organics or an unknown pool store potion that has been added but you are sure you have not added any (algaecides, etc).

If there are wrinkles in the liner, that is a very highly likely area for algae to hide. Also check the skimmer throat and weir.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I am sorry that you’re going through this. I followed your SLAM thread, and you did such a great job.

I’m no expert, but I thought I’d add something to be a bit more specific about that weir door: there’s probably a little piece of foam on the back of that to make it float. Remove the door and pull the foam and see if you see anything. Even if you don’t see anything, I’d scrub around the skimmer with the door removed and soak the foam in a bleach solution. As a newbie I really had no idea that that was there.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

I don't seem to have a weir door. If I am correct, that's a flap that should be on the outside of the skimmer? Maybe it had one at a point. I guess I should look into getting one for it?



Here is my skimmer itself... don't mind the awful iron staining going on in there it's much warmer in the skimmer but I still feel no slime anywhere. Should I pour a little bleach in it? Stick a toothbrush down that hole (with the system off incase I drop it?)
The other 'hole' seems to have sand in it. That's been there, not sure how to get it out.

Current water clarity. I haven't run the robot yet so the debris make a good indicator... you can make out each grain of dirt.
The off-color (not blue) is because the iron has gone back out due to all this bleach.



I don't really have any wrinkles in the liner as far as I can tell. There are a few bumps and divots however.

 

[mknauss]

No need to clean the suction lines. I imagine the spot with the sand in it is a plugged port as the main drain (if you have one) is plumbed elsewhere.

Check your testing procedure, clean your test vials, etc. That water should not have a FC issue.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

I decided not to test the pool much today because I'm almost out of powder (on the way), and maybe I am chasing imaginary problems...

Tested around 10 AM: 24.5
Tested just now at 6:30 PM: 6
No CCs either time.

That's an 18.5ppm loss in 8ish hours?

I cleaned the vials.
I did the test twice, with my original drops and fresh drops that came with another order.
The powder is less then a month old, and from TFTkits.
I am using a speedstir
10ml water sample.
Not squeezing the bottle, just holding it above and each drop takes about a second to come down.
At 10 AM, it took 50 drops to clear the pink -- just now it took only 12...

Is there any way CYA can simply not be working? I am at a total loss here.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

I am also certain of my CYA level. I even purchased the standard reagent from TFTkits that is supposed to be CYA 50, so I know what it should be looking like...

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

Decided to try another method of testing and did an OTO...
It matches up with what the drops say. A little above 5. It should be super orange if I was at the 20+ I have been dosing too...

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

So, I got in the pool tonight determined to do some investigation (currently I’m taking an antibiotic and I’m not allowed in the sun more then 5 minutes! so had to wait until dark). I had a flash light with me and went around all the “seam” areas with a toothbrush. Meaning like, where the inlets and skimmer etc are tacked i to the wall. I even dug behind them a bit with my (long) fingernail, and those all came up clean.

So the last area. The steps. This is where I finally found something. The steps are built in and in no way removable without a drain, I believe? Anyway I first stuck my nail behind the plastic seam piece and came out with black on it. So it scrubbed with a toothbrush and black clouds were proofing out. In this situation I don’t know what would be considered “a lot”, it didn’t like obscure vision or anything but very visible black clouds. Some of the bigger chunks that floated out I caught and it is clearly green algae when smeared on my hand.

So I did this along the whole stair seam until nothing else puffed out and I wasn’t getting anything with my finger but I fear there is just more back there. I don’t know if this could be responsible for what’s going on because really I wouldn’t say it was 18.5ppm worth ? Not able to think of much else to do I put straight bleach in a syringe and squirted it behind the seam all the way round and also dumped more bleach on the step area where maybe the water isn’t circulating to so well...

Any other advice? This is literally the only place I feel algae can be and i’m not sure how to get to it. could i just apply some kind of underwater sealeant along the whole thing to trap it in there?

 

[mknauss]

If your steps are removable at all, they are the culprit. You need to investigate that more. Post some pictures of them, etc.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

One side is missing the strip that covers the screws..


The algae was poofing out all along the seam that goes round the whole steps.
It looks like they would only be removable if the pool was drain/liner was being replaced?

 

[mknauss]

Water should not be getting into the step assembly then.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

Okay, so, it's just accumulating in the seams and likely not in or behind the steps...
Is there any reason I can't/shouldn't apply some type of sealant around the whole thing to keep it out of the gaps?

 

[mknauss]

No idea on that. I am not that familiar with liner pools.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

After cleaning the steps last night, I lost 1.5pmm overnight instead of the 3-4ppm that has been happening. So, there is some progress maybe. 0 CCs.
Yet to be seen how much I'm going to lose in the day-time, though...
12am test: 25, 0cc
7am test: 23.5, 0cc

 

[pharmcoder]

Our pool came with the house when we bought it and it is a vinyl liner pool with steps similar to those. I often wonder if the open space on either side was once sealed. I can only go slightly in with any brush. Last year, I had a black dust cloud come out similar to what you said. But, I don't have problems with my FC level. However, that was during the time I was slamming the living daylights out of the pool when battling mustard algae so maybe that fixed whatever was lurking in there....CYA level is another story.....it tends to drop....still trying to figure that one out. I often wondered if it is a hiding place for the mustard algae.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

Right? I feel like it's kind of a bad design, there are so many little grooves and gaps that don't look like they were ever flush with anything. Since I am not worried about staining the liner or anything, I think I will be trying an underwater sealer around the whole thing...
It's literally the only place algae could be in my pool unless it's in my pipes. I just don't have any other features

 

[pharmcoder]

I agree about the design. I was told that I couldn't change them out until we change the liner. That's going to be quite a ways off. I am going to start saving down to pennies because I want them replaced as well as the skimmers and fiber optic lights.....all possible culprits.

 

[Strawberryshortcake]

Something has got to be wrong somewhere and I'd like some more eyes on my test if possible. I am no longer confident at all in anything. I also started researching the CYA standard reagent test and, it seems in the past people were sent bottles that gave them funky readings - which was then fixed when they got new bottles. The dot has never fully disappeared for me at 50 on the standard solution from TFTkits. As I was basing the proper appearance on that, I could be off with my numbers.

And I know that having FC beyond the CYA level means it is going to burn off extremely quickly so... I feel like that is what has to be going on. I don't know the math involved but maybe someone that does can tell me if the numbers match up?


7am test was 23.5 with no cc. I added 1 gallon, due to the rate at which it has been plummeting in the day. So that brought me to 27.5
Tested just now, and I am at 8.5, 0 ccs.
19ppm loss in 11ish hours.

Here is TFTkits 'standard solution' at 50 & 40 and I swear I can see the dot in both. So until I started looking around on the forums I thought that's what it should look like.
Back to sun, in my shadow, held at waist..
Standard solution mixed with the reagent, none of my pool water etc.


And here is my pool water at 60, 50, and 40. Same lighting conditions.



I've tried every lighting condition possible with the test - full sun, sun setting, shade, no shade, inside, inside with very bright lights indirectly pointing, and this is what it pretty much always looks like.
Also, this was the result with two different bottles of reagent - the original one from my first slam and one i just ordered with the standard solution

And, if it matters, the UV index was 11 today, and is still 10 right now.