What to do temporarily?

[pooldv]

Yep, test and adjust it up or down based on FC level and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. More here on dialing in your SWG, Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators

 

[jeremycrook]

Yep, test and adjust it up or down based on FC level and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. More here on dialing in your SWG, Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators

Thank you pooldv! I assume you being only 2 hour south we have a similar pool type atmosphere more or less. Within the next couple of years, I think I want to install a solar setup like yours! I have a barn in the backyard that is screaming for some of those panels, unless you can talk me out of them. I am still reading and reading threads on the forum...

 

[xyz]

After adding the 4 cups of CYA in the sock, it was no where near dissolved. I was able to mash the CYA around and get it out of the sock and brush it to nearly completely dissolved. How bad is touching a sock full of wet mashed CYA, being an acid and all? I really don't know too much about these chemicals and need to really find out what is corrosive/dangerous? So is CYA like chlorine tabs or not as bad? 2nd question, the chemical regents in the test kit? Should I avoid at all cost getting them on me, concrete, chairs, etc., can I pour the final tests down the drain, in the grass? What about rinsing the test tubes in the pool after testing, big no-no or ok?

Well if CYA, I'm in trouble! I don't worry about it.

As far as watching FC, yes, focus on Keeping FC where it needs to be and PH. Then check to see that you have a CSI between 0 and -0.3 to protect your new plaster.

 

[pooldv]

We encourage sock squeezing to dissolve the CYA faster.

I would definitely encourage solar panels. They have given us many swim days that we would have otherwise missed due to the water being too cold from cold fronts or rain. We like our water 85+. 87 is even better. A solar controller helps a bunch to make it work better. A solar cover also helps a lot to hold in heat on cool nights.

 

[xyz]

Due to the unseasonably warm weather I decided to add salt and fire up the SWG. I was 30 days past the initial fill so I said what the heck. I overshot the salt but assuming the ~400+- differentiation reading (and the SWG is happy) it's reading "chlorinating at 70%". I was extremely surprised when I took the FC reading and it was 6.5, that is the highest FC reading I have taken. When I added the salt this weekend, I tried to raise TA and get my FC around 6. I added 4 cups bleach and 5.5 cups baking soda.

So my question: To try and dial in the SWG, should I take a reading tomorrow mainly focusing on FC to verify if I am over chlorinating? The SWG was set at 70% when it fired up, so I didn't know if that is a starting place or should I turn it down to 50%? I know that when spring comes around I am going to raise CYA higher, but I figured I would keep it lower now as the SWG may have a few weeks run time.

POOL TEST

Salt 3600
CYA 40
FC 6.5
Ph 7.8
TA 70
CC 0
CH Didn't test (last test 300)

You can do a little back of the envelope, or you can look up the actual output of the unit, and calculate that way. I'd say, you are in a safe FC place, so back of the envelope is Ok.

So lets say you are at 6, and tomorrow you are at 8. And before the SWG, you were using x per day, lets say 3 for the purposes of this.

So if you are at 6, you lost 3 and you are now at 8, you made 5 for the day, and wanted to make 3.

So...

0.70*5/3=0.42 or 42 percent. Put your real numbers in, but this will get you pretty close. Then just adjust every few days, and remember to add more when you get heavy use. I do this by adding a few hours of a "cleaner" cycle so I just run the SWG longer rather than ticking it up, and then having to remember to tick it back down.

 

[jeremycrook]

We encourage sock squeezing to dissolve the CYA faster.

I would definitely encourage solar panels. They have given us many swim days that we would have otherwise missed due to the water being too cold from cold fronts or rain. We like our water 85+. 87 is even better. A solar controller helps a bunch to make it work better. A solar cover also helps a lot to hold in heat on cool nights.

I am really leaning towards doing one of these systems, you can't beat the heat from the sun! It sounds like a good investment, and run the heat pump "on the side", kind of like you seem to be doing. I will ask more questions at a later date when I have a better understanding of the entire project.

- - - Updated - - -

You can do a little back of the envelope, or you can look up the actual output of the unit, and calculate that way. I'd say, you are in a safe FC place, so back of the envelope is Ok.

So lets say you are at 6, and tomorrow you are at 8. And before the SWG, you were using x per day, lets say 3 for the purposes of this.

So if you are at 6, you lost 3 and you are now at 8, you made 5 for the day, and wanted to make 3.


So...

0.70*5/3=0.42 or 42 percent. Put your real numbers in, but this will get you pretty close. Then just adjust every few days, and remember to add more when you get heavy use. I do this by adding a few hours of a "cleaner" cycle so I just run the SWG longer rather than ticking it up, and then having to remember to tick it back down.

OK WOW. I was at FC 8 level, running the unit on 70%. I only tested the FC and moved the SWG to produce at 30%, (so I changed it from 70% -> 30%) I didn't see the math calculation that you provided until this morning, and will do a little more studying with it to see if I made a correct adjustment. This will really help out to start dialing in everything now then to make mistakes in the Spring when it starts to get used often.

 

[jeremycrook]

We encourage sock squeezing to dissolve the CYA faster.

The reason I asked about the CYA was that my hands all of a sudden decided to do a crazy shedding of skin. My hands had become raw/callused and I didn't know if it was due to all the extra work or if I got into something. I used to work heavily in mechanics and the grease/diesel used to do this to my hands pretty bad. Glycerin was good for combating the skin from cracking and bleeding really bad. Not sure what this was all about?

 

[pooldv]

That is pretty odd. Shouldn't be from the CYA, I've squeezed many lbs of CYA out of socks with no side effects. Maybe your hands need to be broken in to being in the pool all the time?

Yes, I let solar do most of the work for free and then top it off with the heat pump as needed. We swam the last couple of weekends. I set solar to heat to 93 to get as much free heat as possible. Then on Wednesday I see where we are on temp. The last time we were at 85/86 with just solar and the cover. This was with air temps in the low 80s and night temps in the low 60s. I put the heat pump on a timer to run 10a to 6p and set it for 88 degrees. By Friday evening we were at 88 and life was good! This was our first fall with the heat pump, I just installed it a few weeks ago. Definitely a good add!

Normally, solar alone will keep my pool right at the avg daily high temp when temps are in the mid80s and up during the day and 70s at night. Or several degrees above the high temp with the cover. When temps drop into the mid-low 60s at night then I need to add the cover to keep the water at the avg daily high temp.

Our solar is a bit undersized for our pool and level of shade because I ran out of room. We have 240sf of solar and about 700sf of pool. Normally you want solar to be somewhere between half and 100% of your pool sf. Ask all the questions you want when the time comes. There are lots of pics in the link in my sig.

 

[jeremycrook]

That is pretty odd. Shouldn't be from the CYA, I've squeezed many lbs of CYA out of socks with no side effects. Maybe your hands need to be broken in to being in the pool all the time?

Yes, I let solar do most of the work for free and then top it off with the heat pump as needed. We swam the last couple of weekends. I set solar to heat to 93 to get as much free heat as possible. Then on Wednesday I see where we are on temp. The last time we were at 85/86 with just solar and the cover. This was with air temps in the low 80s and night temps in the low 60s. I put the heat pump on a timer to run 10a to 6p and set it for 88 degrees. By Friday evening we were at 88 and life was good! This was our first fall with the heat pump, I just installed it a few weeks ago. Definitely a good add!

Normally, solar alone will keep my pool right at the avg daily high temp when temps are in the mid80s and up during the day and 70s at night. Or several degrees above the high temp with the cover. When temps drop into the mid-low 60s at night then I need to add the cover to keep the water at the avg daily high temp.

Our solar is a bit undersized for our pool and level of shade because I ran out of room. We have 240sf of solar and about 700sf of pool. Normally you want solar to be somewhere between half and 100% of your pool sf. Ask all the questions you want when the time comes. There are lots of pics in the link in my sig.

I read your build thread, I initially thought solar was something completely different. What turned me on to the idea was understanding and reading about the solar cover, then I found solar heating, then I read your thread and found some great information. I don't have a ton of room on the top of my barn in the backyard, I think I will also be a little shy of the half sq ft., but we have a smaller pool so who knows. I like the idea of having the solar panels on my barn rather than the house, but who knows I may change my mind. I am still a newbie at all of this...

 

[jeremycrook]

The pool's FC level this evening was 6, yesterday I was at 8. I am leaving the SWG at 30% to see what tomorrow will bring. The pH was 8 - 8.1, however it's really tough to verify what color the reading is. I had my wife try and look and she said it was at the highest reading, however she was indoors looking. I assumed it was 8.1 and added 1.25 cup (32%) muriatic acid to lower the pH. From what I read, it's essential to keep that in check around 7.2-7.5ish to avoid problems.

Sunday I added 1 cup CYA and just added it to the skimmer. Yesterday and today I noticed a bunch of really fine white flakes that gathered in the beach entry, or 9 inch shallow area between the two bubblers I have. Could this be non-dissolved CYA, or could this be something else? I assume since I put the CYA in the skimmer everything would go through the filter and nothing fine would make it out of the returns? Now I am wondering, since I have the bubblers and deck jets could other fine sentiments make it around the filter and come out through "these" returns? The last two nights I have turned on the pool lights and notice fine sentiments in front of the light?
Calcium scaling is something I am about to read up on, but it's most likely undissolved CYA correct? Why I ask this question is we didn't do a completely white bottom, (sorry I don't know the terminology) we did a #1 on the darkness that the PB suggested. And I notice that there is some whitish splotchy area's that aren't the same color as the entire pool area. I didn't know if it just might be that the plaster didn't completely dissolve the dye, or whatever they put in the plaster to make it darker. However I have read here that you need to brush the white area's really good upon startup conditions. I have started brushing the pool a bit more, but it's been so clean and clear that I don't know if I am accomplishing anything? Thanks in advance.

I read this:

There are a few things that cause pH to rise,
Higher TA
New plaster, less than a year old
Saltwater chlorine generator
Aeration, like waterfalls, bubblers, etc

So I turned off the bubblers in the beach area. I want to avoid any problems with plaster curing etc. keeping pH low. Is this a wise move or am I worrying to much about the little things?

Sorry for so many questions.

 

[pooldv]

Yes, those things will push PH up. Did I write that, it looks familiar? Yes, turning off the bubblers is a good idea, only run them when you are out there and want the aesthetics/noise. Yes, it is important to keep your pH at 7.8 or lower.

When your pH gets a smidge darker than 7.8 then lower it to 7.5. This will also slowly lower your TA. You pH rise should slow when TA is somewhere between 50 and 60.

The white flakes could be scale coming from the SWG, it will scale before the pool does because pH is higher in the cell. It is not likely that it is the CYA, stuff that big can't get through your filter unless something is wrong.

CYA put in the skimmer gets trapped in the filter and takes a week or so to dissolve. More here about using a sock to add CYA, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

No worries, this forum exists to answer questions about pools!

 

[jeremycrook]

Yes, those things will push PH up. Did I write that, it looks familiar?

yessir! I did quote that from the horses mouth! Those items help me understand the chemistry involved. I have looked at the SWG cell and there is a little white accumulating already on the top of the metal plates. I am unsure if this does factor in that I do have hard water initially from our city water supply? I will take a full water chemistry reading tomorrow as I will have a few seconds without the kiddos. Taking the tests for me is tough as I have little ones wondering about "what is daddy doing now"? The pool is new to us all! Wouldn't have the pool if it wasn't for my wifey and kiddos!

 

[pooldv]

Right on!

Yes, definitely a factor. Post up some fresh numbers and we can work on it. I thinks it's time for you to learn about CSI.

 

[jeremycrook]

Fresh numbers! Today is a beautiful day, I wish I had a solar blanket and some panels and we would be swimming!

POOL TEST

Salt 3400
CYA 40
FC 7
Ph 7.6
TA 80
CC 0
CH 300

Flakes in the pool again this morning. I have been sweeping them everyday to the middle of the pool so the cleaner will catch them each day.

 

[pooldv]

I am totally on the fence with putting the cover on and cranking up the heater and swimming this weekend. My only issue is leaves on the cover are a pain! And it is a bit windy.

If you grab some flakes and put a little muriatic acid on them and they fizz up and dissolve then it is calcium scale. Put all those numbers into PoolMath including water temp and it will give you a CSI number. To start off you want to keep that number between -0.3 and 0 to prevent scale. This will definitely prevent scale in the pool but may not prevent scale in the SWG cell.

You want to aim for TA between 50 and 60. That should give you fairly stable PH between 7.6 and 7.8. Adding acid to lower PH will slowly lower your TA. Or you can lower it faster by following this, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity.

Check your SWG manual to see if there are options for changing the timing of it reversing polarity to clean itself. Some do and some don't. Set it to reverse/clean as often as you can.

The flakes aren't a problem, as long as you keep CSI below 0 you won't have scale build up in the pool. It is just something to look at and brush or whatever you want to do about the aesthetics of it.

More about scaling here, Pool School - Calcium Scaling

 

[jeremycrook]

To be completely transparent, the flakes started a few days after I adjusted the TA. I added 5.5 cups of baking soda to raise the TA, I should have never tried to move it. I moved it from 40 and I think I was targeting 70? After sweeping this morning, and this evening right before the cleaner came on I am sitting here with no flakes. I cleaned out the cleaner's bag thinking it was somehow coming out of the cleaners bag. I added acid a few days ago to lower pH and might have possibly slowed the scale. I will try the acid test to verify if it is truly scale, as I grabbed quite a bit with the net a few days ago. For some reason I am now thinking it is happening in the mornings when its a little cooler temps outdoors. I will try and read the SWG manual to try and figure out how the unit works.

Edit: after actually reading about CSI, I now believe within the last weeks jump in PH value ~8-8.2 that was the culprit. Going to monitor pH and lower TA slowly. ?

 

[pooldv]

Cooler water will lower CSI so that shouldn't make it scale. TA at 40 is a bit low, keep it at 50.

 

[jeremycrook]

The scale accumulated when I changed the TA from 40 to 70, the TA is now 80. If it's not a "problem", I will just work on how to keep it from accumulating. I guess I can plug in different numbers into pool math and see what will keep my CSI closer to 0. My numbers at this point are decent, but this is a learning venture.

Last night I had the light on enjoying the pool and I noticed I could see the scale coming out of one of the jets, every now and then throwing out a bigger chunk. I verified that it was scale by adding a drop of acid to it and it fizzled up. You can see the "dust" or small particles at night when the light is on.

I'm just going to continue to watch it since it's not really a bad problem, but I can't stand it that it accumulates in the beach area and the cleaner can't get to that shallow area.

I'm heating currently and planning on swimming tonight and tomorrow since its such mild weather, I'm a little upset I didn't pull the trigger on a solar blanket yet due to not believing we are going to have such a mild fall weather.

 

[pooldv]

I decided to heat today too since it will be sunny and 85 tomorrow and 87 Sunday. Pools was 74 this morning and was 80 at 5:00. No cover right now, might out it on a little later.

If you want to lower TA here's how, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

 

[MarianParoo]

Are you still having scaling issues?