What size breaker do I need?

[Mleads310]

Have a new pool install going and trying to get the parts list needed for Siemens panel. Have two pumps
Hawyard:
SP3215X20XE
And
HL32900VSP

What size breakers do I need for these pumps? Called Hayward, they stated to look on the pump and don't go more than 10 percent higher that amp draw??? Little concerned that they don't have the size breaker listed.

Also I know the VSP pump would need a double pole breaker, but the other pump I believe is single speed. Does this pump run on single or double phase?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[1poolman1]

You will need two ground-fault circuit breakers, one for each pump, according to the National Electrical Code. Since you will be running 240 volts on each pump you will need double-pole breakers. If there is nothing else on the same circuit (i.e. booster pump) you can use 15-amp breakers on each. If there is a booster pump on the circuit with the filtration pump you would need a 20-amp breaker.

 

[JamesW]

GFCI Circuit Breakers

Ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) circuit breakers work faster and at more sensitive thresholds than conventional household circuit breakers. Required by the National Electric Code (NEC) standards for pool pumps, these GFCI breakers are the right choice in load centers supporting...

www.pentair.com

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

What size wiring are you using between the CB and pump?

 

[Mleads310]

Thank you very much for all quick and helpful responses.
-booster pump. I don't believe there is one in the system but I will double check today. The pool builder installed the system (minus the electric). I do believe there is a turbo cell? Is that the same as a booster?
-definitely Siemens GFCI breakers that seems to be coming up a lot with these pumps.
-the wire gauge will depend on if I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker. I'm thinking 10 gauge for the 20 amp and 12 for the 15amp breaker.

 

[ajw22]

-the wire gauge will depend on if I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker. I'm thinking 10 gauge for the 20 amp and 12 for the 15amp breaker.

Use 12 gauge for 20 amps circuits and 14 gauge for 15 amp circuits.

I would put in two 20 amp 12 hauge circuits even if you can get away with a 15 amp circuit. That way you can replace the pump with a 20 amp pump in the future without any problems.

 

[Mleads310]

Use 12 gauge for 20 amps circuits and 14 gauge for 15 amp circuits.

Thank you

 

[JamesW]

The Pentair breakers are made by Siemens.

Siemens used to make a 20 amp breaker, but they discontinued it for some reason.

Siemens 20 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF220AP - The Home Depot

Siemens GFCI circuit breakers are UL Listed and CSA Certified as Class A devices. These circuit breakers offer the new Self-Test and Lockout feature as required by UL 943, enabling the GFCI to automatically

www.homedepot.com

You can use a 30 amp breaker as long as the wire is big enough.

10 gauge from the breaker to the pump should be fine.

[edit]Based on the manual, I would use the Siemens 15 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker.

Siemens 15 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF215AP - The Home Depot

Siemens GFCI circuit breakers are UL Listed and CSA Certified as Class A devices. These circuit breakers offer the new Self-Test and Lockout feature as required by UL 943, enabling the GFCI to automatically

www.homedepot.com

[end edit]

Siemens 30 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF230AP - The Home Depot

Siemens GFCI circuit breakers are UL Listed and CSA Certified as Class A devices. These circuit breakers offer the new Self-Test and Lockout feature as required by UL 943, enabling the GFCI to automatically

www.homedepot.com

I would recommend a 2.7 hp Tristar for the main pump.

TriStar VS | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products

TriStar® VS variable speed pool pumps are the most energy efficient on the market, according to EPA ENERGY STAR 3rd party testing data. Saving pool owners up to 90% on energy costs, they are specifically designed to replace most single speed pool pumps.

www.hayward-pool.com

What is the extra pump for?

 

[ajw22]

I would put in two 20 amp 12 gauge circuits even if you can get away with a 15 amp circuit. That way you can replace the pump with a 20 amp pump in the future without any problems.

 

[ajw22]

Are you providing the wire and doing the wiring or an electrician?

 

[JamesW]

 

[ajw22]

The Pentair breakers are made by Siemens.

Siemens used to make a 20 amp breaker, but they discontinued it for some reason.

The Pentair PA220GF is still available although pricey. I paid $130 in March and it is now $195.

Amazon.com: Pentair PA220GF 2-Pole GFCI Circuit Breakers, 20-Ampere : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com: Pentair PA220GF 2-Pole GFCI Circuit Breakers, 20-Ampere : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

 

[JamesW]

The Pentair PA220GF is still available although pricey. I paid $130 in March and it is now $195.

That's why I would go with the 30 amp Siemens from Home Depot.

[edit]Based on the manual, I would use the Siemens 15 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker.

Siemens 15 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF215AP - The Home Depot

Siemens GFCI circuit breakers are UL Listed and CSA Certified as Class A devices. These circuit breakers offer the new Self-Test and Lockout feature as required by UL 943, enabling the GFCI to automatically

www.homedepot.com

[end edit]

 

[JamesW]

If you are getting Hayward equipment, I would recommend the OmniLogic with subpanel.

Get the salt system included.

OmniLogic | Automation | In Ground Pool Automation - Hayward Pool Products

OmniLogic, the simplest and most intuitive backyard automation system ever - combining the best in connectivity, energy-efficient functionality, and modern user interfaces.

www.hayward-pool.com

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/literature/omnilogic-LITOMLOBRO15A.pdf

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/literature/Automation-Brochure-LITAUTOB20.pdf

 

[ajw22]

If you are getting Hayward equipment, I would recommend the OmniLogic with subpanel.

Get the salt system included.

OmniLogic | Automation | In Ground Pool Automation - Hayward Pool Products

OmniLogic, the simplest and most intuitive backyard automation system ever - combining the best in connectivity, energy-efficient functionality, and modern user interfaces.

www.hayward-pool.com

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/literature/omnilogic-LITOMLOBRO15A.pdf

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/literature/Automation-Brochure-LITAUTOB20.pdf

Why the OmniLogic and not the newer OmniPl that you can also get with the TCELL940 SWG?

OmniPL Smart Pool and Spa Control | Hayward Pool Products

OmniPL™ offers powerful pool and spa automation for mid-range builds and renovations. Designed to provide the same high-end capabilities as our OmniLogic® system, OmniPL brings smart control for variable-speed pumps, salt systems, lighting and more.

www.hayward-pool.com

 

[JamesW]

Why the OmniLogic and not the newer OmniPl that you can also get with the TCELL940 SWG?

OmniPL Smart Pool and Spa Control | Hayward Pool Products

OmniPL™ offers powerful pool and spa automation for mid-range builds and renovations. Designed to provide the same high-end capabilities as our OmniLogic® system, OmniPL brings smart control for variable-speed pumps, salt systems, lighting and more.

www.hayward-pool.com

If it's a better price, then it might be a better value.

In my opinion, they make too many versions of basically the same thing which causes nothing but confusion.

Just make a single system and be done with it.

You don't need 20 versions of the automation system.

 

[ajw22]

If it's a better price, then it might be a better value.

In my opinion, they make too many versions of basically the same thing which causes nothing but confusion.

Just make a single system and be done with it.

You don't need 20 versions of the automation system.

My understanding is the OmniPl has an improved UI over the OmniLogic and is easier to use.

I agree Hayward has too many Omni automation versions.

 

[JamesW]

Here is what the installation manual says to do.

Based on the manual, this is the one to get.

4.6. Electrical Specs

Refer to motor nameplate for voltage and current ratings. Use copper conductors only. For indoor & outdoor use.

Connect pump to a 15 amp branch circuit for 230VAC or a 20 amp branch circuit for 115VAC in accordance with local codes, regulations, and the National Electric Code (NEC).

A disconnecting means located at least 5 ft. from the inside wall of the pool, spa, or hot tub must be provided.

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/tristar-vs-950-owners-manual-IS3206VSP3-REV-B.pdf

Siemens 15 Amp Double Pole Type QPF2 GFCI Circuit Breaker US2:QF215AP - The Home Depot

Siemens GFCI circuit breakers are UL Listed and CSA Certified as Class A devices. These circuit breakers offer the new Self-Test and Lockout feature as required by UL 943, enabling the GFCI to automatically

www.homedepot.com

 

[Mleads310]

Just to give a little background. The pool builder is installing a 20x14 pool, 80"x80" hot tub, run all plumbing to and from pool/hot tub and tie into pump in the pump room, run wires for lighting from pool to pump room.
I'm personally doing the feed from the main panel in house to sub panel in the pump room, which is completed.
I'm having an electrician, hasn't come to give estimate yet, do everything from the sub panel to the pump including the Omni 900, both pumps lighting etc.

I know absolutely nothing about wiring the Omni , relays , salt system etc. I do know it's going to be a salt water pool with Omni. Other than that I'm completely lost when it comes to pool equipment.

I'm trying to set up the electrician with all the breakers he needs in the sub panel prior to getting here for an estimate as I know these GFCI Siemens breakers have been hard to come by recently and figured I would get a jump on things for him.

I have attached a few pictures of my pump room set up and Omni equipment for reference. Again when it comes to pool stuff I'm lost, so bear with me.

 

[tstex]

You will need two ground-fault circuit breakers, one for each pump, according to the National Electrical Code. Since you will be running 240 volts on each pump you will need double-pole breakers. If there is nothing else on the same circuit (i.e. booster pump) you can use 15-amp breakers on each. If there is a booster pump on the circuit with the filtration pump you would need a 20-amp breaker.

For any VS Pump/Filtration Pump, I would never run anything else on that breaker, no matter how small. A single speed pump you could but just do the math minus 20% max and you have your breaker amps. As noted, all breakers should be GFCI